Five members from Canada’s 2018 world junior team (Hart, McLeod, Dube, Foote and Formenton) told to surrender to police, facing sexual assault charges

[DEANYOUNGBLOOD17]

I don't know why you thought I'd bother about your

 

[4thline]

What do you mean?

There is almost no similarity to the Duke case beyond those two very general points.

 

[JIMVINNY]

I can’t believe there are people in here arguing that it’s perfectly normal to get (drunk) women on camera to say that the (gang) sex they just had was definitely consensual.

I don't think anyone is arguing that. The argument is that she stated she was sober on video, so if we take her at her word, her consent is legitimate. My argument is that retroactively retracting it later would be wrong.

If it can be proven that they knew (or should have known) that she was drunk, then all this goes out the window and they should all be in jail. Unless of course they were drunk too, which means they couldn't consent, which means she should be in jail too! What a disaster...

 

[Lazlo Hollyfeld]

All the evidence points to her giving consent both before and after. What absolutely SHOULDN'T be a thing is the retroactive retraction of consent.

This simply isn't true.

You haven't seen any of the evidence, let alone all of it.

 

[Darcy Tucker]

So February 5th the London Police are holding a press conference about this. Are they going to just be like "players X , Y , and Z are goofs" or will it just be more of the same ambiguous statements?

 

[JIMVINNY]

This simply isn't true.

You haven't seen any of the evidence, let alone all of it.

Have you? So how can you claim that I'm wrong?

 

[HBK27]

At this point the passed out thing and the video of consent thing are just stories, no one knows what is real.

I mean, yeah...nobody here really knows what actually happened that night.

But there are a few stories written by reputable sources and I don't believe that any of them (at least to my knowledge) suggested that she had passed out that night.

That would be a clear game changer as it would definitely show that she could not consent.

 

[D Wakaluk]

Yeaaah... to all the "they could be innocent" people; how often do you invite your whole team over when you hook up with a girl?

The first thing that pops up in those reports are her words along the lines of "I was ok with you, but not with all your buds coming over".

If this case would be nothing, or super unclear, we would not see these players dropping out. No doubt Hockey Canada has saved peoples careers in the past with their rape fund.

They can't save these "kids". It's over.

 

[Ezekial]

Have you? So how can you claim that I'm wrong?

You took a internet article to be as concrete as courtroom evidence.

Your mindset is why our society is plagued by misinformation. Not to say the article is 100% false, you just can't take it and run as fact because it exists.

 

[Korpse]

So February 5th the London Police are holding a press conference about this. Are they going to just be like "player X , Y , and Z are goofs" or will it just be more of the same ambiguous statements?

Given they have asked 5 players to surrender, I think the press conference will include player names and the charges that are being brought against them.

 

[Devilsfan118]

Have you? So how can you claim that I'm wrong?

That's... not how it works. Do you have a source indicating all of the court evidence indicates if/when she gave consent?

It's not on others to disprove your statement - it's on YOU to PROVE your statement. That's how arguing works.

 

[Crazy Cizikas]

Don’t forget that Jesus will NOT be your friend if you’re not married
(I look forward to a very hot climate afterlife)

Seriously? Of all the problems in the world, that what he cares about?

 

[Lazlo Hollyfeld]

Have you? So how can you claim that I'm wrong?

wow that is a bold take.

Ok let me clarify. You haven't seen any of the evidence so you have no idea what you're talking about when you say all the evidence points to that she consented. You're putting forth your opinion based on zero evidence and stating it as fact.

 

[Ezekial]

Seriously? Of all the problems in the world, that what he cares about?

Don't eat shellfish.

 

[Andre Palot]

Best grilled cheese I've ever made: bacon, smoked gouda, Granny Smith apple.

Extra sharp cheddar
Honey ham
Granny smith apple
Real maple syrup
Crusty bread

Now that's a quality grilled cheese

 

[Darren McCord]

How are you able to say that it was grudgingly? And then explain how these guys are supposed to know the difference.

The fact that they felt compelled to film her before and after is gross. They definitely felt like what they were doing is wrong.

 

[CanadienShark]

This article does not directly link the five players to the five as-yet unconfirmed players.

You’re actually making a great point for our policy because you’re proving that people won’t be able to handle the distinction.

You’re even responding to my specific response to this (which is still true in the link you provide here) so I’m not sure what you think is different here.

I’ve read this article two dozen times because people keep sending it to me as “proof” and I’m hoping they added something to the article, but nope. Sane article. Same implied connection but not stated. The article is having you make the conclusion. The article does not present the conclusion.

Stop sending me this same article, folks.

What if I send it in a different format, like PDF?

 

[Bear of Bad News]

What if I send it in a different format, like PDF?

An MP3 (read in the voice of Jeff Goldblum) would be just lovely - thanks!

 

[KevinRedkey]

What could that evidence be? All I can think of is someone who was there acts as a witness against their teammates.

I imagine it's either that or possible some texts that make the 5 look bad, where as the other 3 don't have "documented evidence" against them? I'm not sure. It's a weird situation.

 

[Ted Hoffman]

I really don't see anyone refusing to believe them.

Read this thread, then come back and try saying that again.

 

[Crazy Cizikas]

Extra sharp cheddar
Honey ham
Granny smith apple
Real maple syrup
Crusty bread

Now that's a quality grilled cheese

You people are stepping away from the greatness of a grilled cheese sandwich. Two slices of American cheese, one slice of cheddar. White bread or potato bread. Cooked in butter. That’s it. Nothing more.

 

[Golden_Jet]

That's likely the very key point. If you bang someone who so incapacitated, they CANNOT consent. Then it IS rape. And if that's what the evidence shows, then a conviction is more than likely. And well deserved, IMO.

There is no rape charge in Canada, it’s 3 levels of sexual assault.

Not sure which level they will be charged with.

 

[Ted Hoffman]

I can’t believe there are people in here arguing that it’s perfectly normal to get (drunk) women on camera to say that the (gang) sex they just had was definitely consensual.

Considering some of the bizarre positions people have taken wrt various hockey plays over the years, I absolutely can. If anything, I'm surprised there's not more people arguing it's perfectly normal if not acceptable.

 

[ZachaFlockaFlame]

The whole thing is a messed up situation and I still don't understand the allure or motivation of the original player inviting other players into the room, let alone what was going on even if the alleged victim did consent to it. Is it possible that she felt pressured to go further than she was comfortable with by a combination of alcohol clouding her judgement and intimidation (whether intended or not) by the players and some of them may not have realized she was uncomfortable with what was happening? I would like to believe that maybe that was the case versus several players knowingly sexually assaulting someone as others also observed it, but who knows. Hopefully the court system in Canada can get to the bottom of it and justice is served.

Part of me thinks whoever the first guy was that took her home was just finished fooling around with her and then the other guys came home from the bar and knocked on his hotel room to play a joke on him or something or they were passing by in some fashion and he invited them in and then it become just a really weird situation after that.

 

[Gregor Samsa]

I can’t believe there are people in here arguing that it’s perfectly normal to get (drunk) women on camera to say that the (gang) sex they just had was definitely consensual.

I feel like the players actually hurt their case by recording her saying she consents. This could easily be a he said she said thing. At the bare minimum the players look weird and deviant