Five members from Canada’s 2018 world junior team (Hart, McLeod, Dube, Foote and Formenton) told to surrender to police, facing sexual assault charges

[Deadly Dogma]

Any updates?

I am thinking there won't be much for a lil bit, that why its getting locked soon.

 

[Ezekial]

It's become apparent you don't grasp that both sexes can be toxic yet only one is consistently demonized

Women can be toxic
Women are demonized plenty, idk if you've seen the people in this thread bringing up past false accusations of sexual assualt. If you need examples I'm sure there are some in your "liked post" section.

When people refer to toxic masulinity they aren't claiming all men are evil or all masculine traits are evil. That's just what you choose to hear.

 

[RR44]

Good man

Sorry if that was too toxic for anyone to read. I'll stop.

No need to stop expressing an opinion...especially those that makes other feel uncomfortable or that aren't obedient to certains myths that are out there.

 

[SniperHF]

Any updates?

We're apparently deciding if society is to blame in part or in full (but probably not at all)

 

[Deadly Dogma]

Women can be toxic
Women are demonized plenty, idk if you've seen the people in this thread bringing up past false accusations of sexual assualt. If you need examples I'm sure there are some in your "liked post" section.

When people refer to toxic masulinity they aren't claiming all men are evil or all masculine traits are evil. That's just what you choose to hear.

isn't toxic masculinity really just another term for misogyny?

 

[Yukon Joe]

Yeah, so I don't use the phrase "toxic masculinity". Because it too easily slides from "toxic masculinity = masculinity", then we have to start defining all the terms, and it all goes to hell.

Let me just say that sexual assault is really bad and people shouldn't do it. Plus, presumption of innocence is still a thing, even if a finding of not guilty is not the same as innocent.

Anyways, after spending way too much time on this thread it's going to get closed anyways so no use typing out another essay.

 

[MXD]

It seems the use of the "toxic" modifier prior to the noun "masculinity" involves the existence of a "non-toxic" masculinity. That's how I think, in my humble linguist opinion, language is supposed to work anyways.

 

[Deadly Dogma]

Just want to say, I will remember our time together lol

 

[BonHoonLayneCornell]

I always thought a big part of the term "toxic masculinity" had to do with the intolerance for peers to not be masculine and the associated peer pressure.

 

[RR44]

You're really just telling on yourself with this type of statement. Equating "toxic masculinity" with "masculinity is inherently evil" just means you can't conceive of masculinity without the specific aspects of it that the phrase "toxic masculinity" is generally used to refer to. You're the one who believes that masculinity intrinsically encompasses traits society has judged to be negative.

Sexual assault is a toxic, criminal, abhorent human behavior that should be demonized. Masculine traits such as strength, courage, winning attitude, assertion, caring, compassion should be celebrated. A toxic behaviour(s) while displaying virtuous masculine traits don't work in unison. See the difference...of course you don't given what your above response is.

Toxic behaviours are not just for men, women can and do display just as shitty behaviour as men do. If you had bothered to read what I actually wrote...you wouldn't have posted such nonsense as"telling on yourself".

 

[Deadly Dogma]

I always thought a big part of the term "toxic masculinity" had to do with the intolerance for peers to not be masculine and the associated peer pressure.

Looking at humans evolutionarily, soo many unpalatable traits were actually crucial to our development.
There is the physical and mental, modern medicine has removed survival of the fittest as a predominant factor. While nice, it is allowing genetic traits that would have been weeded out, to propagate.
Now for the mental, is the relatively recent change in culture a sign that the Darwinian factor is being removed from the mental aspect?
And the bigger question, what would the long term effects be?
Are we far enough removed from natural selection that we can survive as a species with the current evolutionary path?

Looking at the change from hunter gatherer to a farming culture may give some insights because I feel we are at a similar shift into a new human age

 

[Gregor Samsa]

Politics and the culture war are stupid. Never have I seen anyone get involved in them and thought “wow, that really did ___ good. S/he is such a better and more likeable person now”

Anyway, I’ve always seen the mean girls stereotype as the feminine version of what is called toxic masculinity

 

[SmytheKing]

Sexual assault is a toxic, criminal, abhorent human behavior that should be demonized. Masculine traits such as strength, courage, winning attitude, assertion, caring, compassion should be celebrated. A toxic behaviour(s) while displaying virtuous masculine traits don't work in unison. See the difference...of course you don't given what your above response is.

Toxic behaviours are not just for men, women can and do display just as shitty behaviour as men do. If you had bothered to read what I actually wrote...you wouldn't have posted such nonsense as"telling on yourself".

You're SO CLOSE to understanding it.

 

[theVladiator]

Anyway, I’ve always seen the mean girls stereotype as the feminine version of what is called toxic masculinity

I think for that to be the case, the "mean girl" stereotype would need to be seen as a positive one, or at least tolerated (girls will be girls?).

 

[Andre Palot]

Rocky?
Bull Durham?

Raging Bull is light-years ahead of Bull Durham, IMO. Not even in the same conversation.

Rocky is a great sports movie and certainly the original is one of the best but I'm still picking Raging Bull over both.

 

[RR44]

What I think term "toxic masculinity" means, is that the society (as a whole, or in certain pockets of it) has certain expectations and standards for male behaviour that are at closer examination are harmful to others and society and general. Examples: aggression, violence, control and dominance. There is no term for toxic femininity, because there are no such negative societal pressures for female behaviour.

Now, there are men and women that do bad things, but the term applies not to individual behaviour, but to society's standards/stereotypes/pressures.

Great post and I believe you may have inadvertently brought up why there's confusion. Control and dominance over someone through criminal, abhorent means is toxic behaviours. But those have nothing to do with masculine behaviours such as hard work, assertion, productive, caring, strength which are NOT toxic but are often confused as such by other groups. A person (or man in this discussion) can display toxic behaviours or masculine behaviours...but you cannot display both, it's contradictory.

 

[Gregor Samsa]

I think for that to be the case, the "mean girl" stereotype would need to be seen as a positive one, or at least tolerated (girls will be girls?).

I’ve always seen it as a group or herd type mentality mostly, granted I don’t really look into this type of stuff. Phenomena like beer muscle is pretty universally frowned upon and made fun of

 

[Atoyot]

Great post and I believe you may have inadvertently brought up why there's confusion. Control and dominance over someone through criminal, abhorent means is toxic behaviours. But those have nothing to do with masculine behaviours such as hard work, assertion, productive, caring, strength which are NOT toxic but are often confused as such by other groups. A person (or man in this discussion) can display toxic behaviours or masculine behaviours...but you cannot display both, it's contradictory.

Why are those masculine traits? Honestly "caring" is much more traditionally considered a feminine trait, stoicism is considered more masculine.

It's only contradictory if you live in a dichotomous world. Some traits that are traditionally masculine are toxic, such as the belief in gender superiority that has existed forever. Emotional detachment is a toxic trait and considered masculine. Hard love is considered a masculine thing to do but has consistently been shown to do more damage than good. Toxic masculinity is about the traditional traits that we now know to be toxic, not the ones that are positive.

 

[AzHawk]

Great post and I believe you may have inadvertently brought up why there's confusion. Control and dominance over someone through criminal, abhorent means is toxic behaviours. But those have nothing to do with masculine behaviours such as hard work, assertion, productive, caring, strength which are NOT toxic but are often confused as such by other groups. A person (or man in this discussion) can display toxic behaviours or masculine behaviours...but you cannot display both, it's contradictory.

Thread's really ending with a whimper. Hoop Dreams and Jericho Mile are good sports movies that I didn't see mentioned.

 

[ps241]

I've been vetoed, my wife said Sandlot lol

Your wife is right. The Sandlot is easily the best sports movie ever. At minimum, it’s the greatest sports movie for children.

Is this real? I haven’t heard of this until now. Some of those players may have played a full career, had kids, won cups and accrued over 50 Mill in earnings by now. That would be some serious skeletons that pop up.

The Sandlot is a great Movie. We watch it as a group at the Cottage every summer.

 

[Golden_Jet]

This thread has really turned sideways lol.

 

[Deadly Dogma]

Why are those masculine traits? Honestly "caring" is much more traditionally considered a feminine trait, stoicism is considered more masculine.

It's only contradictory if you live in a dichotomous world. Some traits that are traditionally masculine are toxic, such as the belief in gender superiority that has existed forever. Emotional detachment is a toxic trait and considered masculine. Hard love is considered a masculine thing to do but has consistently been shown to do more damage than good. Toxic masculinity is about the traditional traits that we now know to be toxic, not the ones that are positive.

I don't really agree, you have to look at the human animal and what allowed us to become the dominant species on the planet.
To say the traits that allow us to survive when times are tough are toxic, does a disservice to our ancestors.

 

[Silky Johnson]

Raging Bull is light-years ahead of Bull Durham, IMO. Not even in the same conversation.

Rocky is a great sports movie and certainly the original is one of the best but I'm still picking Raging Bull over both.

Uhh...hello...

YOUNGBLOOD

 

[Andre Palot]

Uhh...hello...

YOUNGBLOOD

Never saw it.

 

[Yukon Joe]

Uhh...hello...

YOUNGBLOOD

I mean I obviously love hockey. That's why I'm posting here, not some other forum.

But the best hockey movies really don't compare to some of the movies for other sports.