Five members from Canada’s 2018 world junior team (Hart, McLeod, Dube, Foote and Formenton) told to surrender to police, facing sexual assault charges

[oilexport]

He stepped in when the detective was fielding a question to say that he thinks a problem with sexual assault is the sexualization of women and girls by the media.

Our society is strange. I watch the grammys and see awesome singers that have to wear bikini bottoms on stage. One of them joked about no underwear. Not sure what the chief was getting at, it was a strange variance from the case.

 

[SmytheKing]

Some of you were more critical with Mike Babcock asking to see photos then 5 men sexually assaulting a woman.

You'll find it's a common pattern. I'm pretty sure no one on here questioned Kyle Beach's motives or if he was telling the truth. They felt bad for the guy. Key word though, guy. They put themselves in his situation and imagined what he went through. Sounds horrible. A girl though? Eh...

 

[PunchImlach is Alive]

Our society is strange. I watch the grammys and see awesome singers that have to wear bikini bottoms on stage. One of them joked about no underwear.

I'm sorry you had to go through that. Sounds really tough.

 

[catnip]

By virtue of being a hockey player and a man, Kyle Beach was a more sympathetic victim than a random female but there were asshats that questioned him as well. Though I seem to remember it was more along the lines of "why didn't he just fight him off; I would've" by the self-proclaimed board alphas than "innocent until proven guilty, and let's keep in mind that men lie all the time".

Casual misogyny is so pervasive and internalized that I don't think many even realise they're doing it. One classic example that keeps coming up in these threads is the "what if it was your mother/wife/sister/girlfriend/daughter etc" by well-meaning posters who unwittingly perpetuate the idea that women/girls are only worth considering if a man is affected. Because men are important and women are just sort of there as accessories.

 

[HTFN]

Yeah, sounds like it. I just don’t think saying women are objectified in the media is particularly a bad thing and brings awareness. Probably isn’t the best time to bring it up. Either way it must be awkward representing the organization who seems either bungled or covered up the original investigation.

The time to bring it up is on its own, of its own accord.

The "Killing Us Softly" series does a really good job of detailing how women are objectified and diminished in advertising over decades, it's great material to watch to understand how a lot of us are being lured into dangerous territory and mindsets.

The Chief of Police addressing a case where 5 men allegedly sexually assault one woman is not the time to be having that conversation with any taste or tact. Frankly if there's one set of people who shouldn't give that speech it's probably the police, and especially not in the wake of a matter they potentially didn't take seriously enough at the time.

 

[Leafs87]

Nah, the circus will be when the 2003 U20 team case gets indictments.

Is this real? I haven’t heard of this until now. Some of those players may have played a full career, had kids, won cups and accrued over 50 Mill in earnings by now. That would be some serious skeletons that pop up.

 

[llwyd]

Sexual assault is the safest of crimes - an overwhelming majority of cases don't even end up in court and many of those that do, return a not guilty verdict because of the reasonable doubt hurdle (which doesn't mean that an assault wouldn't have happened). And often the trial ends up being a second assault for the victims, a brutal process of shaming. And yeah, a very small proportion of the claims are genuinely fake and made up - I wonder which side of things reserves more notice and concern?

 

[PunchImlach is Alive]

Is this real? I haven’t heard of this until now. Some of those players may have played a full career, had kids, won cups and accrued over 50 Mill in earnings by now. That would be some serious skeletons that pop up.

There's some articles about it (https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/na...l-assault-allegations-world-juniors-1.6560536) but haven't heard any updates on that case in a while. When you go down the roster of players and how many people were allegedly involved, those are indeed some serious skeletons.

 

[TopC0rner]

It was a little more then that. Read the 12 second video transcript, and the text messages the next day between the victim and the ring leader.

It's enough to create doubt and gives a sense, of what happened.

BTW - I'm all for changing that culture, regardless !

I don't know, all I see is someone knowing what he did was wrong and trying anything to save his ass afterward. If anything, imo, the video and texts are more damning than creating doubt.

 

[Sexy Necksy Garland]

Nah, the circus will be when the 2003 U20 team case gets indictments.

I just googled this. Pretty quickly came up with something about someone filming as six of his buddies wail away at an unconscious chick.

 

[VivaLasVegas]

During that press conference, one could almost see the police chief wanting to scream out two things:

(1) We are terribly under-resourced for sexual assaults claims; and

(2) Please don't blame us for the failures of our predecessors, since retired or gone elsewhere, who botched the initial investigation.

 

[ps241]

I just want to make something clear - if you are saying it's capital "P" political pressure - as in either the provincial or federal governments were pressuring the Ontario Crown to lay charges - that would have been wildly inappropriate and a major scandal. Not to say it's impossible, but that would be massive news. So, personally, I wouldn't make that accusation without some kind of proof.

If by political you just mean it's a huge news story and very topical - yeah sure.

I never stated that the Federal or provincial governments “directly” told the crown to press charges?

 

[ItWasJustified]

Uh, no, but if he was the one that called them all to his room, then yeah, those words make sense to use.

All the other persons involved had a choice to not be involved.

 

[Rob Brown]

All the other persons involved had a choice to not be involved.

Take it up with the PD if you don’t like the charge.

 

[ItWasJustified]

Take it up with the PD if you don’t like the charge.

I really don't care.

 

[D Wakaluk]

Hockey Canada: - We totally didn't try to cover this up and even if we did, we ARE doing the right things NOW. Look, Cale Makar can't play in the Olympics.

 

[AlainVigneaultsGum]

He stepped in when the detective was fielding a question to say that he thinks a problem with sexual assault is the sexualization of women and girls by the media.

What the f***

 

[Pink Mist]

Thanks for the correction. I’d be interested to know what exactly his professional role/relationship was to the team.

Director in the company at Nike and former OHL player himself

 

[Otto]

I believe you are right

I think it is reasonable to treat the video as a neutral piece of evidence, a coin flip that can go either way.. basically a lesser piece in what will actually prove one way or another

In Canada consent after the fact is not consent. So that would be inadmissible. On top of that there's the second video where she was coerced

 

[KingJoffrey]

Sexual assault is the safest of crimes - an overwhelming majority of cases don't even end up in court and many of those that do, return a not guilty verdict because of the reasonable doubt hurdle (which doesn't mean that an assault wouldn't have happened). And often the trial ends up being a second assault for the victims, a brutal process of shaming. And yeah, a very small proportion of the claims are genuinely fake and made up - I wonder which side of things reserves more notice and concern?

The side where innocent people were falsely accused of heinous crimes and it cost them millions, their reputation and friends.. World is a sh tty place to live. Murders happen every day a tons, as actual rapes, but accusing innocent people for the crime that they didn't commit are lowest of the low. It hurts falsely accused and the real victims of these heinous crimes.

Matt Araiza lost millions due this behavior. And the fake accuser didn't even get jail time. Which means there is next person waiting to do the same. And Matt Araiza's reputation won't never fully recover.

I hope that you change your attitude now. Because if you don't and someday someone falsely accuses you of heinous crimes you deserve same treatment as you now give to others. I'm sure many of us have witnessed when a innocent people are accused of heinous crimes like rape. They have lost their reputation forever and then never can recover it fully. I won't wish that to my worse enemy.

#meetoo public outcry media trials caused many innocent men to take their own lives.

 

[SoupNazi]

#meetoo public outcry media trials caused many innocent men to take their own lives.

Can you back this one up about how many "innocent" men took their own lives?

 

[TopG]

Rape

 

[Deadly Dogma]

Rape

IMO this is deeper than the act of rape. This boils down to how the hell do 5-7 people make such bad choices?
How does no one stand up and stop it!?
Thats whats disheartening to me.
1 bad guy, not good but knowing there are bad people it makes sense, but 5?? Was it just bad odds that 5 bad people were in that room at the same time? or is it a deeper darker look into the human animal?

 

[hairylikebear]

IMO this is deeper than the act of rape. This boils down to how the hell do 5-7 people make such bad choices?
How does no one stand up and stop it!?
Thats whats disheartening to me.
1 bad guy, not good but knowing there are bad people it makes sense, but 5?? Was it just bad odds that 5 bad people were in that room at the same time? or is it a deeper darker look into the human animal?

There could have been 50 in that room but it filtered down to the worst 5 that were willing. I also get the impression here that there was 1 active predator and 4 opportunists.

 

[Machinehead]

IMO this is deeper than the act of rape. This boils down to how the hell do 5-7 people make such bad choices?
How does no one stand up and stop it!?
Thats whats disheartening to me.
1 bad guy, not good but knowing there are bad people it makes sense, but 5?? Was it just bad odds that 5 bad people were in that room at the same time? or is it a deeper darker look into the human animal?

Well, unfortunately, professional athletes are a population more likely to engage in harmful behavior.

Anybody who makes any kind of noise at the highest level was a deity in lower levels and got treated as such. These kids have been spoiled their whole lives, never had a real job, and never got told no.

They also have a weird social life where most of their socialization happens at the rink with other spoiled young men, and whatever stupid shit your teammates are doing, you do it because they're your teammates.

That's not an excuse and there's no reason to not be better. Other guys have done it. It's just, you know, you have to keep in mind that a lot of the guys you're watching in this league are immature f***s.