Five members from Canada’s 2018 world junior team (Hart, McLeod, Dube, Foote and Formenton) told to surrender to police, facing sexual assault charges

[Deadly Dogma]

Well, unfortunately, professional athletes are a population more likely to engage in harmful behavior.

Anybody who makes any kind of noise at the highest level was a deity in lower levels and got treated as such. These kids have been spoiled their whole lives, never had a real job, and never got told no.

They also have a weird social life where most of their socialization happens at the rink with other spoiled young men, and whatever stupid shit your teammates are doing, you do it because they're your teammates.

That's not an excuse and there's no reason to not be better. Other guys have done it. It's just, you know, you have to keep in mind that a lot of the guys you're watching in this league are immature f***s.

Thats true, I guess taking a snap shot of society in general and applying that to the players just doesn't fit.
When things like this happen, I try to make sense of it using logic and reason but all too often I can't make it fit.

 

[Deadly Dogma]

But it's not really about that at all, it's what people feel is an overcorrection to people getting away with things in the past, but most of these "cancel culture" incidents could have been avoided if the culprits made better decisions.

But that has nothing to do with this case at all, they have been charged so it's way past the point of this side conversation.

yup, in this case, its a moot point.
Its 100% clear these guys did something bad, how bad, who did what etc we will have to wait to find out.
I'm still having a hard time wrapping my head around how they could think its OK,
I have never fundamentally understood rape, my wife says its power based but how do you get aroused when the other person is scared and not into it.

 

[EdmFlyersfan]

yup, in this case, its a moot point.
Its 100% clear these guys did something bad, how bad, who did what etc we will have to wait to find out.
I'm still having a hard time wrapping my head around how they could think its OK,
I have never fundamentally understood rape, my wife says its power based but how do you get aroused when the other person is scared and not into it.

You can see this in the Vince McMahon charges also...

 

[Deadly Dogma]

You can see this in the Vince McMahon charges also...

I haven't looked into that yet, but it looks bad

So is it a case of bad people using power to do bad things or is it the power that leads average people to do bad things?

 

[Evilhomer]

This boils down to how the hell do 5-7 people make such bad choices?
How does no one stand up and stop it!?

Welcome to human psychology. It is far easier to be evil in a group than evil on your own.

 

[Deadly Dogma]

Welcome to human psychology. It is far easier to be evil in a group than evil on your own.

I keep coming back to an experiment done in the 70's or 80's. They took students who passed psychological tests and made some in total control of the others, IIRC it was supposed to last a set amount of time but had to be called off because the ones in control started to abuse the others and their safety was at risk.
This experiment implies that the power is what corrupts.
Then that leads to the question, are we all capable of horrific actions if given enough power?

 

[llwyd]

The side where innocent people were falsely accused of heinous crimes and it cost them millions, their reputation and friends..

All kinds of serious crimes include a small portion of false accusations. Sexual crimes are in the class of their own in that how many perpetrators get off totally scot-free, over 90% of them don't even end up in court. So, yes, this is the overwhelming concern here. The unspeakable tragedy of this safest of all crimes.

 

[NyQuil]

I keep coming back to an experiment done in the 70's or 80's. They took students who passed psychological tests and made some in total control of the others, IIRC it was supposed to last a set amount of time but had to be called off because the ones in control started to abuse the others and their safety was at risk.
This experiment implies that the power is what corrupts.
Then that leads to the question, are we all capable of horrific actions if given enough power?

It was the Stanford Prison Experiment.

 

[McPoyle]

Not sure if this has been posted yet, not looking at 223 pages of comments, but what is with this comment from Makar?:

“It’s tough. I’ve been told not to comment on that ongoing investigation. I’ve been straightforward from the start. I wasn’t there,” Makar said. “It was a very fortunate bounce to not obviously be a part of something like that. I’m just going to leave it to the people who are handling the work right now. I can’t stress enough that I wasn’t part of that.”

From this article:

Avalanche’s Cale Makar on alleged 2018 incident: “I can’t stress enough that I wasn’t part of that”

Not a great look to refer to not being involved in a SA incident as a "lucky bounce".

 

[Ezekial]

We're at the point where we want to crucify people who weren't there because we don't like how they answer a question.
Yes it was dumb phrasing but he keeps having mics shoved in his face asking him shit about something he wasn't involved with over and over.
It's like the police press conference, "no comment" isnt a good enough answer for people who demand answers to questions that legally can't be answered publicly.

 

[Pink Mist]

Not sure if this has been posted yet, not looking at 223 pages of comments, but what is with this comment from Makar?:

“It’s tough. I’ve been told not to comment on that ongoing investigation. I’ve been straightforward from the start. I wasn’t there,” Makar said. “It was a very fortunate bounce to not obviously be a part of something like that. I’m just going to leave it to the people who are handling the work right now. I can’t stress enough that I wasn’t part of that.”

From this article:

Avalanche’s Cale Makar on alleged 2018 incident: “I can’t stress enough that I wasn’t part of that”

Not a great look to refer to not being involved in a SA incident as a "lucky bounce".

Exhibit A on why you should only speak through your lawyer during these ongoing investigations because the implication is that you weren't taking part in it this time

 

[MXD]

Not sure if this has been posted yet, not looking at 223 pages of comments, but what is with this comment from Makar?:

“It’s tough. I’ve been told not to comment on that ongoing investigation. I’ve been straightforward from the start. I wasn’t there,” Makar said. “It was a very fortunate bounce to not obviously be a part of something like that. I’m just going to leave it to the people who are handling the work right now. I can’t stress enough that I wasn’t part of that.”

From this article:

Avalanche’s Cale Makar on alleged 2018 incident: “I can’t stress enough that I wasn’t part of that”

Not a great look to refer to not being involved in a SA incident as a "lucky bounce".

I wouldn't read much into it, other than the fact he was lucky to have not even been possibly "guilty by association" due to having a rock solid alibi.

 

[Rob Brown]

Not sure if this has been posted yet, not looking at 223 pages of comments, but what is with this comment from Makar?:

“It’s tough. I’ve been told not to comment on that ongoing investigation. I’ve been straightforward from the start. I wasn’t there,” Makar said. “It was a very fortunate bounce to not obviously be a part of something like that. I’m just going to leave it to the people who are handling the work right now. I can’t stress enough that I wasn’t part of that.”

From this article:

Avalanche’s Cale Makar on alleged 2018 incident: “I can’t stress enough that I wasn’t part of that”

Not a great look to refer to not being involved in a SA incident as a "lucky bounce".

I wouldn't read into it too much. Seems to me like he just meant he was lucky he wasn't at the event in London and didn't have more knowledge or exposure to what happened.

 

[Channelcat]

Not sure if this has been posted yet, not looking at 223 pages of comments, but what is with this comment from Makar?:

“It’s tough. I’ve been told not to comment on that ongoing investigation. I’ve been straightforward from the start. I wasn’t there,” Makar said. “It was a very fortunate bounce to not obviously be a part of something like that. I’m just going to leave it to the people who are handling the work right now. I can’t stress enough that I wasn’t part of that.”

From this article:

Avalanche’s Cale Makar on alleged 2018 incident: “I can’t stress enough that I wasn’t part of that”

Not a great look to refer to not being involved in a SA incident as a "lucky bounce".

Lucky bounce? Ya, I'd say he misspoke horribly......but I don't think he needs to be dragged into this.

 

[Pink Mist]

I wouldn't read much into it, other than the fact he was lucky to have not even been possibly "guilty by association" due to having a rock solid alibi.

idk saying his comments basically saying "Thank God I didn't get the chance to be complicit" doesnt really point to him having an understanding of the gravity of what occured to the victim (only suggests an understanding of the perpetrators and what they're facing). Should have kept his mouth shut

 

[Bruins4Lifer]

I wouldn't read much into it, other than the fact he was lucky to have not even been possibly "guilty by association" due to having a rock solid alibi.

The other side of his statement reads that he feels the others who are/were involved are "unlucky" to be in their current set of circumstances of being charged.

 

[Rob Brown]

idk saying his comments basically saying "Thank God I didn't get the chance to be complicit" doesnt really point to him having an understanding of the gravity of what occured to the victim (only suggests an understanding of the perpetrators and what they're facing). Should have kept his mouth shut

He probably meant more like 'thankfully I wasn't there and therefore wasn't aware of it at the time and don't know any of the details or specifics of what went down', not that he couldn't participate lol. Hockey players aren't known for being very articulate.

 

[Ezekial]

The other side of his statement reads that he feels the others who are/were involved are "unlucky" to be in their current set of circumstances of being charged.

Does it really?

 

[albator71]

yup, in this case, its a moot point.
Its 100% clear these guys did something bad, how bad, who did what etc we will have to wait to find out.
I'm still having a hard time wrapping my head around how they could think its OK,
I have never fundamentally understood rape, my wife says its power based but how do you get aroused when the other person is scared and not into it.

I agree with you and yes rape is about power and a feeling of entitlement, and seeing women as mainly sex object just take a look at social media and when you have guys like Andrew Tate spewing their misogynist bullshit to millions of young men its disgusting. I think as men and fathers we need to educate our sons to see women as human being and not our personal sex toy, and then of course we could get into the porn industry and the role it plays in distorting young men brains.

 

[MXD]

idk saying his comments basically saying "Thank God I didn't get the chance to be complicit" doesnt really point to him having an understanding of the gravity of what occured to the victim (only suggests an understanding of the perpetrators and what they're facing). Should have kept his mouth shut

Again, that's... The worst reading possible for Makar.

 

[Pink Mist]

He probably meant more like 'thankfully I wasn't there and therefore wasn't aware of it at the time and don't know any of the details or specifics of what went down', not that he couldn't participate lol. Hockey players aren't known for being very articulate.

I get that, but still terrible phrasing and unnecessary for him to even comment

 

[McPoyle]

We're at the point where we want to crucify people who weren't there because we don't like how they answer a question.
Yes it was dumb phrasing but he keeps having mics shoved in his face asking him shit about something he wasn't involved with over and over.
It's like the police press conference, "no comment" isnt a good enough answer for people who demand answers to questions that legally can't be answered publicly.

Hes by far the most famous player from that 2018 team, he needs to expect questions on the incident. Its also quite easy to give a better answer than he did.

 

[EdmFlyersfan]

Welcome to human psychology. It is far easier to be evil in a group than evil on your own.

Lord of the Flies

 

[PunchImlach is Alive]

Murders happen every day a tons, as actual rapes, but accusing innocent people for the crime that they didn't commit are lowest of the low. It hurts falsely accused and the real victims of these heinous crimes.

False accusations are worse than murder and rape? Okie dokie.

Matt Araiza lost millions due this behavior. And the fake accuser didn't even get jail time. Which means there is next person waiting to do the same. And Matt Araiza's reputation won't never fully recover.

Really sorry to hear about your close personal friend, Matt Araiza, losing out on "millions" but that's not how that case ended. There wasn't enough evidence to move forward with a charge. That's not a claim of innocence. He also admitted to having sex with a minor so maybe that may having something to do with him having a reputation. Go ask him.

I'm sure many of us have witnessed when a innocent people are accused of heinous crimes like rape. They have lost their reputation forever and then never can recover it fully. I won't wish that to my worse enemy.

#meetoo public outcry media trials caused many innocent men to take their own lives.

Can you cite any of this?

 

[EdmFlyersfan]

I haven't looked into that yet, but it looks bad

So is it a case of bad people using power to do bad things or is it the power that leads average people to do bad things?

It's actually worse, people with money and influence can manipulate ones without it.