Five members from Canada’s 2018 world junior team (Hart, McLeod, Dube, Foote and Formenton) told to surrender to police, facing sexual assault charges

[vipera1960]

Huh

Obviously Wayne and Mario are the witnesses under the publication ban.

 

[Chainshot]

What hard facts did we learn? Feel free to add as appropriate.

(1) The victim told a family member that she had been sexually assaulted the next morning, and the family member reached out to police. The sexual assault unit open an investigation the next day (event + 2).

(2) The victim has fully cooperated with the investigation from the start to now.

(3) The London police force handles a surprising number of sexual assault charges, but does so in consistently a dilatory and potentially fashion that has resulted in other criticism from sexual assault victims beyond this case.

(4) The original investigation did not pursue all available leads, including the leads that would eventually lead to charges being made.

(5) McLeod gets two counts of sexual assault, the other players got one charge of sexual assault.

(6) There has been no contact between the London police and the NHL since the investigation was re-opened.

We also learned that McLeod's second charge isn't a lesser charge, it was for facilitating so that someone else could commit sexual assault.

 

[LOFIN]

We also learned that McLeod's second charge isn't a lesser charge, it was for facilitating so that someone else could commit sexual assault.

Wasn't that obvious to everyone already, just by looking at Canadian criminal code?

 

[thegazelle]

I didn’t watch the press conference but to play devils advocate, is it possible he was trying to draw attention towards bigger issues to promote change but he bungled it and put his foot in his mouth?

Even if that were the case, the timing for saying that was awkward. Further, it was after a barrage of questions they couldn't answer. I think that the Chief was feeling the pressure of the moment.

At first I kind of respected the humanity he displayed as when he was discussing the apology to the victim, his eyes seem to be welling up and he was fighting emotions. That I can respect, and even had he said that they have identified issues in the past in their investigative process in the past that they have since corrected, that would be respectable. I think that the fact that he mentioned none of the original investigative team are on the new team was a step in the right direction.

I get it that he's the new Chief and he doesn't want to throw the previous Chief or team under the bus; but there are ways to transparently communicating that mistakes were made, but here's what we are doing about it, etc. and ways we are implementing changes for this not to happen again. I think that's much more honorable than trying to protect the blue line. They didn't debate the media's stating that the relationship between the public and police in London is currently low; it would have been a step in the right direction by admitting mistakes were made, rather than speaking in generalities and being evasive.

 

[I am toxic]

We did find out that the victim was pressing charges from the very start and cooperating even through today.

@Siludin

I suggest you edit or delete your earlier post.

 

[Chainshot]

Yeah, sounds like it. I just don’t think saying women are objectified in the media is particularly a bad thing and brings awareness. Probably isn’t the best time to bring it up. Either way it must be awkward representing the organization who seems either bungled or covered up the original investigation.

It did not seem at all like the right place or time to interject that, especially in that he said he wanted to interject it while the detective was answering another question.

 

[VivaLasVegas]

Wasn't that obvious to everyone already, just by looking at Canadian criminal code?

The alternative explanation would be that McLeod was charged with going back himself for a second round with the girl a/k/a "sloppy seconds".

 

[ERYX]

This new COP seems pretty good, sounds like he might blast the failure of the past in the future.



Better Call Saul?

You think a case of this magnitude is going to get thrown out? lmao did the guy get his law degree from Cragislist?

A sex assault case was just thrown out in Milton, Ontario last week -- after conviction, no less -- as a result of delay: She testified. The jury found a man guilty of raping her. It was only then a GTA judge tossed the case for delay

You may not like it, but the lawyer most likely didn't get his law degree from Craigslist and actually knows what he's talking about. The backlog is terrible. Throwing cases out is the only way that the Courts can try to force the government to put proper resources into the justice system. And, like it or not, the right to trial in a reasonable time is a right in the Charter. If you think that should be removed, maybe start lobbying and getting people onboard to pressure the government to open up proceedings to amend the Charter.

I haven't seen the video in question, the comment you replied to was the suggestion that the case could be thrown out for delay. There's also a chance these guys get acquitted -- we really have no idea what the actual evidence is or how it will play out in court.

 

[Breakers]

I’m still not buying that audit that “””zero””” federal funds were used in the settlement or for lawyer fees.

 

[Pierce Hawthorne]

Right. I just mean I don’t want the media to lose focus on the real issue. Yes, it was a police press conference where not much else could be said. It just seems like they’re eager for someone to blame, when after a trial feels like the best time.

Yeah definitely agree with this. It was frustrating to hear the constant bombardment of questions regarding the problems with the first investigation. That really shouldn't matter at all right now. The most important thing right now is that if these 5 individuals committed sexual assault, they need to be found guilty and that's where the focus of everything should be on right now is determining if they're guilty or not.


Keep the questions about the bungled first investigation until afterwards.


Ultimately, I personally feel like this first press conference was largely unnecessary because they can't answer any questions about the current investigation and rightfully so... But they also aren't going to answer questions about the first investigation either so, why have the press conference at all. An official press release would have been better at this junction of the investigation IMO.

 

[Golden_Jet]

I think he's backed into a corner because the police inaction seems to be a big part of the case against these guys.

Also chief Tran has only been on the job 9 months. He might not know all the small details from 2018.

 

[wraithsonwings]

Most rapes go unreported because the victim is blaming themselves for the incident, not because they are worried about people thinking it is a false allegation.

Now what possible reason would victims have for blaming themselves?
Might it just have something to do with people always blaming the victim?

 

[Rob Brown]

The alternative explanation would be that McLeod was charged with going back himself for a second round with the girl a/k/a "sloppy seconds".

It doesn't read like that to me. It specifically calls out 'aiding any person' or 'abets any person committing it', so to me it reads like he was the one that facilitated/enabled the others.

 

[MrHeiskanen]

A sex assault case was just thrown out in Milton, Ontario last week -- after conviction, no less -- as a result of delay: She testified. The jury found a man guilty of raping her. It was only then a GTA judge tossed the case for delay

You may not like it, but the lawyer most likely didn't get his law degree from Craigslist and actually knows what he's talking about. The backlog is terrible. Throwing cases out is the only way that the Courts can try to force the government to put proper resources into the justice system. And, like it or not, the right to trial in a reasonable time is a right in the Charter. If you think that should be removed, maybe start lobbying and getting people onboard to pressure the government to open up proceedings to amend the Charter.

I haven't seen the video in question, the comment you replied to was the suggestion that the case could be thrown out for delay. There's also a chance these guys get acquitted -- we really have no idea what the actual evidence is or how it will play out in court.

"and in a rare move"

 

[Gaylord Q Tinkledink]

Did the press conference happen ?

I forgot about it until now while listening to 32 thoughts.

 

[Crosby2010]

No, I think people constantly wanting to be contrarians and question the victim is very old school.

Saying "let's hold judgment until it is proven in court" is the same thing as blaming the victim of rape? No, not even close. But the wise thing to do is actually let it play out.

 

[I am toxic]

They cut someone off asking about if someone (didn't hear who) had interfered with the initial investigation. Well... that went about as sideways as one could expect.

The question was if anyone from Hockey Canada interfered with the investigation.

Which of course we know they did, as we already have evidence that someone from Hockey Canada informed at least one of the players that the victim had approached police.

What else Hockey Canada did to prevent an alleged gang rape from being investigated - in addition to all the other support they have given to rape enabling culture - will hopefully be fully revealed to the light of day once the dust settles.

 

[BonHoonLayneCornell]

Well, that was uninteresting. I actually felt bad for the Chief because I felt like I could see his sincerity in general and liked his original statement, nor was he in charge for the original debacle, but it is just not the time and place for that specific statement about media and women's portrayal and sexualization. I'd bet he would like that one back, but I also hope not too much focus is put on that.

 

[Chainshot]

The question was if anyone from Hockey Canada interfered with the investigation.

Which if course we know they did, as we already have evidence that someone from Hockey Canada informed at least one of the players that the victim had approached police.

What else Hockey Canada did to prevent an alleged gang rape from being investigated - in addition to all the other support they have given to rape enabling culture - will hopefully be fully revealed to the light of day once the dust settles.

Viva mentioned above the question was about the NHL. I couldn't hear what or who they were directing the question about - I found that the lack of questioning about HC's involvement, even if there was going to be more "we can't discuss that at this time" responses kind of telling by the press huddle gathered.

 

[MXD]

Yeah definitely agree with this. It was frustrating to hear the constant bombardment of questions regarding the problems with the first investigation. That really shouldn't matter at all right now. The most important thing right now is that if these 5 individuals committed sexual assault, they need to be found guilty and that's where the focus of everything should be on right now is determining if they're guilty or not.


Keep the questions about the bungled first investigation until afterwards.


Ultimately, I personally feel like this first press conference was largely unnecessary because they can't answer any questions about the current investigation and rightfully so... But they also aren't going to answer questions about the first investigation either so, why have the press conference at all. An official press release would have been better at this junction of the investigation IMO.

I mean.. It REALLY matters. It was just obvious after the first question that they couldn't possibly answer about this before the end of the trial (if the trial itself doesn't answer these questions).

 

[I am toxic]

Viva mentioned above the question was about the NHL. I couldn't hear what or who they were directing the question about - I found that the lack of questioning about HC's involvement, even if there was going to be more "we can't discuss that at this time" responses kind of telling by the press huddle gathered.

The three biggest enablers of rape culture in this are Hockey Canada, the NHL, and the London Police. Given it was a London Police pr exercise, I understand why Westhead prioritized going after them.

But the question that was cutoff was about someone from Hockey Canada interfering, it's pathetic and disgusting that the London Police deliberately stifled any meaningful questioning by having a deliberately too short and arbitrary time limit.

Pathetic and disgusting, but totally unsurprising.

 

[Canovin]

So is McLeod the guy who picked up the girl at the bar?

 

[Yukon Joe]

Wasn't that obvious to everyone already, just by looking at Canadian criminal code?

To be fair - it's obvious to anyone with a law degree who can look at a Criminal Code, but perhaps not as obvious to a lay person.

 

[geebster]

I might have brain damage. It just occurred to me this wasn't London in the UK but London Ontario. I was so confused as to why they were all in the UK for a WJC....

 

[Chainshot]

Wasn't that obvious to everyone already, just by looking at Canadian criminal code?

I was making no assumptions on the charges levied until they were discussed.