Five members from Canada’s 2018 world junior team (Hart, McLeod, Dube, Foote and Formenton) told to surrender to police, facing sexual assault charges

[SoupNazi]

In my mind if someone is nasty and cruel enough to report false rape to authorities I believe that he/she should receive same punishment that rapist would get. It is real crime and this behavior worsen the reputations of actual victims. It's sickening that nowadays normal people must always at least assume that there is a chance that case is hoax.

Sure nowadays a lot of people are in #believeallwomen crowd who are willing to always believe that accused are guilty. But there are sick people out there who are willing to ruin someones live with lies.

There is enough hoaxes for past few years to prove my point.

It’s attitudes like this that are why so many rapes go unreported and unpunished. This is disgusting.

 

[Edgelord]

It’s attitudes like this that are why so many rapes go unreported and unpunished. This is disgusting.

I also think the structure of rape trials and the inherent trauma for the victim also plays a big part.
I think a ton of women feel its just not worth it.
IMO rape cases should be handled similarly to sexual abuse cases involving minors.

 

[Frenzy31]

It’s attitudes like this that are why so many rapes go unreported and unpunished. This is disgusting.

Most rapes go unreported because the victim is blaming themselves for the incident, not because they are worried about people thinking it is a false allegation.

 

[Pink Mist]

The fact that there are two witnesses under a publication ban, and theres a chance that they're players, is going to give the mods here a headache with monitoring speculation lol

Before we get ahead of our skis, witnesses could also be hockey canada staff, hotel staff, family or friends of the victim etc. The friends and family of the victim would certainly warrent a publication ban

 

[Bear of Bad News]

Good to see everyone's ready for the week already!

 

[andora]

I'm a woman as well as a survivor of group rape, so I guess I can share my thoughts based on my personal experience.

Spoiler: Potentially triggering content

re: Pizza Guy: When I was getting raped, a guy randomly came into the room. He did not get a slice of pizza and leave. Instead, the guy raping me said "I'm done so you can have her now" and the new guy said "Okay" and raped me too. Pizza Guy is pathetic and spineless. He is not a rapist and shouldn't be put in remotely the same category as rapists.

I called one of my rapists the next morning and said a bunch of placating things trying to trick him into actually admitting that he raped me. I wasn't recording the call or anything. I just wanted to hear him admit he was wrong. He just kept lying and saying he'd never touched me. When I read EM's text messages, I think about that day.

Based on my own experience, EM probably has complicated feelings about each of her rapists. Maybe one of them said really nice things to her while he raped her. Maybe one of them apologized while he still continued to rape her. Maybe one of them laughed in her face and called her dehumanizing names as he raped her. Each of those 3 people would still be a rapist, but how she feels about them wouldn't be the same. I don't know if that will be a factor in the trial, but I think it's something to keep in mind. When multiple people rape you, it's hard not to "forgive" one or two because they were nicer rapists than the other ones.

My opinion on the 5 alleged rapists: I don't know for sure if they're rapists. I certainly have a lot of opinions on it, but I was thankfully not in that room with them. I don't need to know every single detail and hear a jury verdict to know that I never want to be in a room with any of them. And ultimately that's the only judgment I need to make on the matter. As a rape survivor, these are the judgments I make every single day to protect myself. "Innocent until proven guilty" is a fine standard in a courtroom, but in my daily life I assume the worst in people. Maybe that's sad, but it's necessary. My rapists had been my friends once.

Just a kudos for explaing the complexity that can incur. The layers and depth are so unique, respect to you for articulating it well.

 

[MXD]

I also think the structure of rape trials and the inherent trauma for the victim also plays a big part.
I think a ton of women feel its just not worth it.
IMO rape cases should be handled similarly to sexual abuse cases involving minors.

There's that.

There's also the very nature of the infraction, combined with the standard of evidence required.

 

[Edgelord]

There's that.

There's also the very nature of the infraction, combined with the standard of evidence required.

This is 1 area a neuro link could change everything.
Imagine having the ability to see events directly from the victim's perspective.
You wouldn't need trials, OK download the data and boom guilty or innocent.

 

[Lshap]

That .5% is your myth talking point. You can't make it as fact even if you repeat it.

Those who lie about rape make it harder for real victims to be believed. Making that real victims are less willing to fight and endure hard process.

There is a lot of horrible people who are willing to lie that x raped her. And you are the one reason why their number increase. Because you're willing to believe their lies.

Your view will only change when someone close to you gets wrongfully accused.

False accusations do happen, however think of it this way: Falsely accusing someone of rape requires a lot of steps. The initial call to 911, the conversation with the responding officers, the medical exam, the multiple follow-ups by detectives, the paperwork, the lawyers, and on and on. It takes time, perseverance, and an airtight story, with the ongoing risk that a minor inconsistency could bring suspicion onto you.

On the other hand, actual rape happens in 10 minutes.

Both are crimes. However, one happens much faster, in private, without having to worry about strategy.

 

[Pablo El Perro]

fair enough, but to outside observers, the justice system in New York seems broken.

Some outside observers.

 

[Melrose Munch]

Two witnesses and paper and audio evidence.

Wow.

The fact that there are two witnesses under a publication ban, and theres a chance that they're players, is going to give the mods here a headache with monitoring speculation lol

Before we get ahead of our skies, witnesses could also be hockey canada staff, hotel staff, family or friends of the victim etc. The friends and family of the victim would certainly warrent a publication ban

Large chance it might not be players if there's a ban. I think if they would players, the judge wouldn't do this. It's in public interest to see who turned on the 5 that have been arrested.

 

[Pink Mist]

Wow.

Large chance it might not be players if there's a ban. I think if they would players, the judge wouldn't do this. It's in public interest to see who turned on the 5 that have been arrested.

Unless they acting as a witness as part of a deal to not face charges

 

[Edgelord]

Wow.

Large chance it might not be players if there's a ban. I think if they would players, the judge wouldn't do this. It's in public interest to see who turned on the 5 that have been arrested.

I hope thats the case and not a situation where it involves a star player and the NHL/courts are protecting their identity simply because they are a great player

 

[Melrose Munch]

I hope thats the case and not a situation where it involves a star player and the NHL/courts are protecting their identity simply because they are a great player

I would hope the prosecution would be smart enough not to do this. There are other ways to get a conviction. It would also mean more players from the roster lied, which is awful.

Unless they acting as a witness as part of a deal to not face charges

That's a major possibility too. I would cut a deal if I were a "witness" (ugh), but I think we should know who was in the room—all of them. I hope they aren't players, but you guys might be right here.

 

[Lshap]

It's in public interest to see who turned on the 5 that have been arrested.

I have a problem with this. Why is the public's interest important, or even relevant?

Maybe victims would be more comfortable coming forward if justice wasn't treated as public entertainment.

 

[Leonardo87]

Folks,

New York's Judicial system is not the topic. Thank you.

 

[Yukon Joe]

The fact that there are two witnesses under a publication ban, and theres a chance that they're players, is going to give the mods here a headache with monitoring speculation lol

Before we get ahead of our skis, witnesses could also be hockey canada staff, hotel staff, family or friends of the victim etc. The friends and family of the victim would certainly warrent a publication ban

So a publication ban is ONLY to protect the identity of the victim.

If the name of a witness is subject to the publication ban it is because the name of the witness would, in some way, tend to identify the victim.

Therefore if (and I haven't seen this reported myself) there is a second witness who is also subject to a publication ban that person is likely friends or family with the victim.

 

[Edgelord]

The real question buried in this, how the f*** can someone still be hungry for pizza with an orgy in the same room

I thought about this as well, I know if I walk into a hotel room and everyone is naked, the last thing on my mind is ohhh Pizza!!

 

[Yukon Joe]

Unless they acting as a witness as part of a deal to not face charges

This is Canada. Such deals are exceedingly rare.

 

[Edgelord]

So a publication ban is ONLY to protect the identity of the victim.

If the name of a witness is subject to the publication ban it is because the name of the witness would, in some way, tend to identify the victim.

Therefore if (and I haven't seen this reported myself) there is a second witness who is also subject to a publication ban that person is likely friends or family with the victim.

that makes a ton of sense TBH

 

[Yukon Joe]

I thought about this as well, I know if I walk into a hotel room and everyone is naked, the last thing on my mind is ohhh Pizza!!

The answer to this question is sadly the same reason why the orgy/rape would happen also - everyone involved is drunk.

 

[Pink Mist]

So a publication ban is ONLY to protect the identity of the victim.

If the name of a witness is subject to the publication ban it is because the name of the witness would, in some way, tend to identify the victim.

Therefore if (and I haven't seen this reported myself) there is a second witness who is also subject to a publication ban that person is likely friends or family with the victim.

Thanks for the clarification!

 

[VivaLasVegas]

The real question buried in this, how the f*** can someone still be hungry for pizza with an orgy in the same room

I'll take "Effects of Marijuana" for $200, Alex.

 

[Edgelord]

The answer to this question is sadly the same reason why the orgy/rape would happen also - everyone involved is drunk.

Also how often is things like that happening where its no big deal to the other people in the room?

 

[Ezekial]

I thought about this as well, I know if I walk into a hotel room and everyone is naked, the last thing on my mind is ohhh Pizza!!

If I'm in a room with a bunch of naked dudes I'm going straight for the pizza or the exit, IDK what the f*** you're talking about.