Five members from Canada’s 2018 world junior team (Hart, McLeod, Dube, Foote and Formenton) told to surrender to police, facing sexual assault charges

[oilexport]

She was not paid 3.5mil by Hockey Canada. She was seeking 3.5mil and reached an undisclosed settlement which was probably significantly less than 3.5mil.

What if the players are proven innocent ? Can they sue Hockey Canada and/or the alleged victim ? By all accounts (ya i know, gossip at this point) the players did not agree with HC and any lawsuit payout. They would claim that is inferred guilt on them, yet they did not chose that route and are fighting this, as it's their only hope at this point ?

Talk about a chitstorm !

 

[Tobias Kahun]

What if the players are proven innocent ? Can they sue Hockey Canada and/or the alleged victim ? By all accounts (ya i know, gossip at this point) the players did not agree with HC and any lawsuit payout. They would claim that is inferred guilt on them, yet they did not chose that route and are fighting this, as it's their only hope at this point ?

Talk about a chitstorm !

I dont think the settlement will be anything worthwhile in the court of law.

 

[TopC0rner]

What if the players are proven innocent ? Can they sue Hockey Canada and/or the alleged victim ? By all accounts (ya i know, gossip at this point) the players did not agree with HC and any lawsuit payout. They would claim that is inferred guilt on them, yet they did not chose that route and are fighting this, as it's their only hope at this point ?

Talk about a chitstorm !

They can't be "proven innocent". They can only be proven not guilty beyond a reasonable doubt. It's not the same. As to suing... no, they can't.

 

[oilexport]

I dont think the settlement will be anything worthwhile in the court of law.

Maybe not, but it sure looks bad on them, that HC threw in the towel, on their behalf. Public opinion has referenced the "hush money payout", as slimy.....

 

[AnInjuredJasonZucker]

Based on CDC reporting, 12.7% of victims of completed or attempted rape reported their first (re-victimization is a depressing known phenomenon) assault occurred before their 11th birthday. One would think the percentage of children that young who had been drinking was so astronomically small as to be irrelevant.

So quite clearly rapes aren’t going to stop if women just never get drunk around strange men. Never mind all the people (as in men and women) who are assaulted by their spouse or significant other or someone they’re dating.

Yup.

 

[TopC0rner]

Maybe not, but it sure looks bad on them, that HC threw in the towel, on their behalf. Public opinion has referenced the "hush money payout", as slimy.....

HC mandated an outside firm to do a proper investigation which resulted in a lenghty report with the conclusion that the victim was likely "sexually assaulted". I wouldn't call that "threw in the towel".

People call it hush money payout because HC was hiding that payout from the public, even though HC itself is a public entity, and they were funding those payouts from fees that parents pay for their kids to play hockey. That's the slimy part, the cover-up.

 

[Schennanigans]

After all the smoke clears and if all these players are charged and guilty, how does Canada not get huge penalties on international competition? It’s unfair for future players to be punished but shouldn’t there be a huge penalty to team Canada even being allowed to play in the tournaments. If there are no penalties to the team what example does that set. IMO the hammer needs to be dropped big time so this never happens again.

 

[oilexport]

They can't be "proven innocent". They can only be proven not guilty beyond a reasonable doubt. It's not the same. As to suing... no, they can't.

What about Johnny Depp vs Amber Heard type circus with the slander case

 

[JoeGarelli]

is there a place to read the actual court documents? just seems like snippets here and there

 

[CycloneSweep]

What if the players are proven innocent ? Can they sue Hockey Canada and/or the alleged victim ? By all accounts (ya i know, gossip at this point) the players did not agree with HC and any lawsuit payout. They would claim that is inferred guilt on them, yet they did not chose that route and are fighting this, as it's their only hope at this point ?

Talk about a chitstorm !

They cannot because there is no “proven innocent”. Just “not guilty beyond a reasonable doubt.” If this woman, was named and went to the media and the press to slander them and so did hockey Canada, sure. But none of that happened. She reported what she believed to be a crime to the police, others did what they saw fit.

 

[oilexport]

HC mandated an outside firm to do a proper investigation which resulted in a lenghty report with the conclusion that the victim was likely "sexually assaulted". I wouldn't call that "threw in the towel".

People call it hush money payout because HC was hiding that payout from the public, even though HC itself is a public entity, and they were funding those payouts from fees that parents pay for their kids to play hockey. That's the slimy part, the cover-up.

I get it, but the players do not agree, at this point. What outside organisation is this, to decide the players fate on payouts, without their consent ? HC is looking out for their best interests, not the players ?

I'm just throwing out scenarios at this point. I feel the culture of the high level players are aproblem, but I don't know how much until I hear the facts in court.

 

[AuraSphere]

is there a place to read the actual court documents? just seems like snippets here and there

The details of the claim are already out... what's being said is... it's pretty bad. And there's confirmation that one of the players basically is confirming that some of the stuff did happen lol

https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/junior-hockey-sexual-assault-1.7093404

 

[93LEAFS]

What if the players are proven innocent ? Can they sue Hockey Canada and/or the alleged victim ? By all accounts (ya i know, gossip at this point) the players did not agree with HC and any lawsuit payout. They would claim that is inferred guilt on them, yet they did not chose that route and are fighting this, as it's their only hope at this point ?

Talk about a chitstorm !

If they get acquitted, I would think the last thing they want to do is relitigate this in a civil court with a lower burden of proof. Considering they didn't pay this person out of their own pocket, I'm sure most of their lawyers will tell them to leave this alone. I also doubt the settlement will be admissable in a criminal court.

 

[llwyd]

Sexual assault is such a depressingly safe crime, so few cases ever end up in court and many of those return a non guilty verdict (often justifiably by the reasonable doubt hurdle which still can be an awful injustice). And this in both common law and civil law jurisdictions. I don't see any simple way to make this better, but at least attitudes can be adjusted and procedures made more humane for the victims. Often the trial ends up being basically a second assault.

 

[mouser]

What about Johnny Depp vs Amber Heard type circus with the slander case

Civil lawsuit, not criminal law.

 

[TopC0rner]

I get it, but the players do not agree, at this point. What outside organisation is this, to decide the players fate on payouts, without their consent ? HC is looking out for their best interests, not the players ?

They agreed that HC would settle for them (due to that settlement, the victim can't go after the players for a civil settlement). Whether they agreed or not with the victim's story is irrelevant. HC assessed through an investigation that regardless of what the players said, the victim was likely sexually assaulted and thus if it went to civil court the victim would likely "win", and they paid out a settlement.

If the victim went directly after the players and their lawyers assessed that the victim would win in a civil case, then they would also advise to make a settlement, regardless of what the player says.

I think the more interesting point in all this, is that the investigation, despite interviewing the players involved (the 5 + the other 3 identified by the victim), came to the conclusion that five players likely sexually assaulted the victim. There was no incentive or bias to get to that conclusion since in the end it would lead to a payout (where if the investigation had led to something inconclusive, or unlikely, HC could have rejected that option).

 

[oilexport]

If they get acquitted, I would think the last thing they want to do is relitigate this in a civil court with a lower burden of proof. Considering they didn't pay this person out of their own pocket, I'm sure most of their lawyers will tell them to leave this alone. I also doubt the settlement will be admissable in a criminal court.

I'm not so sure. If they somehow get off from getting convicted, they still lost a collective 100-200 million in wages, and everyone is already calling them slimballs. Long before a criminal court case opens.

What will they have to lose ?

 

[T REX]

. I feel the culture of the high level players are aproblem,

Your posts tell a completely different story so far.

Let's see what happens. Again, IMHO...the prosecution is not just relying on he said vs she said in such a high profile case. More to come.

 

[57special]

So, I haven't read everything here, so excuse me if it has already been posted, but 8 players were named in the civil suit. Any ideas on what happened to the other three? Are they not being charged, or have they cut a deal with the prosecution in exchange for testimony?

 

[Spearmint Rhino]

Well there goes my theory that it was 5 separate players involved and Dube, Foote, Hart, McCleod and Formenton's leaves of absence were just a case of unfortunate bad timing for ex-teammates.

Still holding out hope OJ finds the real killer tho

 

[oilexport]

Your posts tell a completely different story so far.

Let's see what happens. Again, IMHO...the prosecution is not just relying on he said vs she said in such a high profile case. More to come.

My posts tell a story of due process. That is what is directed by law.

Do we have a bunch of privileged animals raping, or an Amber Heard type girl ?

BTW - I'm kinda leaning towards animals, BUT we should keep an open mind and respect due process.

 

[93LEAFS]

I'm not so sure. If they somehow get off from getting convicted, they still lost a collective 100-200 million in wages, and everyone is already calling them slimballs. Long before a criminal court case opens.

What will they have to lose ?

Um, it's very hard to collect. The woman will just go into bankruptcy, and they might get enough to cover their legal fees. I doubt they'll get anything out of Hockey Canada settling. So, what do they have to lose? Likely this being further dragged out, and maybe be able to collect their legal fees back.

 

[MXD]

I'm not so sure. If they somehow get off from getting convicted, they still lost a collective 100-200 million in wages, and everyone is already calling them slimballs. Long before a criminal court case opens.

What will they have to lose ?

Compounding loss of money with loss of even more money is a really bad strategy.

 

[mouser]

I'm not so sure. If they somehow get off from getting convicted, they still lost a collective 100-200 million in wages, and everyone is already calling them slimballs. Long before a criminal court case opens.

What will they have to lose ?

Lawyer fees for a lawsuit they can’t win.

 

[GeoRox89]

What if the players are proven innocent ? Can they sue Hockey Canada and/or the alleged victim ? By all accounts (ya i know, gossip at this point) the players did not agree with HC and any lawsuit payout. They would claim that is inferred guilt on them, yet they did not chose that route and are fighting this, as it's their only hope at this point ?

Talk about a chitstorm !

The burden of proof for a criminal conviction is beyond a reasonable doubt. For civil court it’s on balance of probabilities - more likely than not that the alleged rape did or did not occur. There is a lot of risk for not much reward for them to sue civilly.

They would just be keeping this case in the public eye and unless the criminal trial revealed something close to clear proof that she lied, they really are not likely to come out of this smelling like roses. Based on everything released to date it’s hard to see a best case scenario for these guys where they didn’t at least act in an incredibly dubious manner surprising all but one person on an unsuspecting drunk woman. Seems smarter for them to hope this eventually fades away and they can move on with their lives as best they can if not convicted.