The issue is not if he will do more than Callahan would to in 1.25 years. I could care less if MSL scores 100 goals in that time. The point is if there is no Cup, than the trade is an abysmal failure.
First Impressions of St. Louis
- Thread starter Kokoschka
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The counterpoint to the debate of whether the risk/reward is worth it and how the trade can be a success is to point out to me that MSL is an elite player? Ok. Consider me sold.
Ail
Based and Rangerspilled.
That's absurd. If he scores 50 goals that trade is a win. You can't judge a trade by what the team does. As long as you get what you paid for from the player the trade is a success. The expectation of a 'Cup based off of one trade is ridiculous. You do what gives you the best chance to win not what guarantees you a win, something that isn't even possible. In your mind you've set this trade up to be an abysmal failure from day one.
Ail
Based and Rangerspilled.
For someone who refers to the vacuum a lot your last line is contradicting. A year and a quarter is a year more than most teams get out of a deadline rental so I would say that comparatively time is less of an issue than it is normally.
BlueshirtBlitz
Foolish Samurai
When MSL has a PPG in the playoffs, a lot of people are gonna look stupid.
If he has closer to .5 than a PPG, i'll eat all of the crow in the world.
If he has closer to .5 than a PPG, i'll eat all of the crow in the world.
Ail
Based and Rangerspilled.
No man the only way they eat crow or look stupid is if he goes end to end in game 7 of the SCF and goes between the legs for the 'Cup clinching goal while riding a raptor surfing on a wave of lava. I don't think they are asking much and St. Louis better get his **** together fast because there is only two weeks left until the playoffs and two weeks and a year until next season's playoffs and time is a ticking as well as father time for that old hasbeen.
aufheben
#Norris4Fox
I know when your GM's mantra is nothing more than "Win now" and the franchise is in a perpetual state of trying to win it all every year by making lazy signings/trades and praying that Henrik will have a historical playoff run, it's somewhat taboo to plan for the future.
I mean, Sather has had such a fruitful and disaster-free tenure as GM for the last 13~ years, I can't really blame anyone for adopting his mentality.
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I guess you're calling St Louis 'elite talent'. I guess it depends on how you define 'elite'.
- Jul 20, 2005
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St. Louis has the most points over the last 5 NHL season. He is the reigning Art Ross winner. And he is currently 14th overall in goals 22nd overall in points.
I'm sorry, but who would NOT describe St. Louis as elite?
His first dozen games as a Ranger outweigh everything else he has done, as recently as this season?
I get not liking the trade. But come on.
We already did that. It's your opinion. I definitely think it's a pretty ridiculous way to evaluate one single trade but we went down this road already and it ran its course so I understand the difference of opinion
We did this too in a previous thread. JG and TB have a perspective that shifts things into a negative light. Some people shift anything into a positive light. Some people shift multiple things into grey areas with some being negative and some being positive. It is what it is, a difference in opinion. Short of insulting TB or JG or something and calling their opinion dumb or insane (I'm not doing that) there isn't really much to be said that wasn't already said...except for discussing actual hockey and play which is being done very little here. I think we had 5 solid posts in a row on actual hockey...it was beautiful
aufheben
#Norris4Fox
Probably because St. Louis isn't doing anything that warrants discussion. He made a drop pass the last game. Even had a shot on goal
Not every1 who disagrees with your exact viewpoint has "adopted his mentality". That's just you acting like your opinion is better than those who disagree.
You also incorrectly characterized his tenure by mentioning only things in a negative way while ignoring the plenty of things from 04-11 which contradict those statements. Again a common tactic which I pointed out in a previous thread. It has not been sunshine and rainbows. 14 years is too long to not produce a more consistent and higher quality team or a championship but it isn't as bad as you like to pretend. Again you guys are harping on the same subject that got another thread closed
I'm sorry, I just don't see an elite player out there. I want to see one, I really do, but I don't. And I don't see a guy who is getting a lot of chances but is just snakebit right now - he's not getting enough chances for an elite player, and he seems to get knocked off the puck way too easily for an elite player too.
Perhaps that had not been the case for the last five years, but that's what I see now.
Thirty One
Safe is safe.
- Dec 28, 2003
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So your stance is that these 12 games are more indicative than his previous 400?
Thirty One
Safe is safe.
- Dec 28, 2003
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- 24,357
Good teams trade first rounders a lot, often more frequently than the Rangers and for less effective players controllable for a shorter time:
There are good trades on that list that brought good teams a piece or pieces they needed for true Stanley Cup contention - and also horrible trades that set teams back.
It will be interesting to see which category the St Louis trade winds up falling into.
- Jul 20, 2005
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He was an elite player as recently as three weeks ago. You really think a dozen games count more than everything else he has done?
Did you think Lundqvist was no longer an elite goalie after posting a .888 save percentage in December and temporarily losing the starting job?
I'm saying I don't see an elite player out there, and what St Louis did in the previous 400 games does not change what he's doing now.
If he starts playing like an elite player (I'm sure even you can agree he hasn't) I will say he's playing like an elite player.
aufheben
#Norris4Fox
I'm not gonna argue about how successful Sather and his philosophy, or lack-there of, has been, the writing is on the wall, and has been for years.
If scoffing at the future in favor of trading draft picks for an old star player isn't Sather-esque, then nothing is.
haveandare
Registered User
See, you saying that over and over and over and over doesn't make it a fact.
You say if there's no cup, the trade is a failure.
I say, if the assets gained don't do more than the assets lost, the trade is a failure.
Both statements are based in our respective opinions.
Why is your opinion being presented as fact while mine is being discarded? They're both of equal merit. They're both based in subjective evaluations.
Thirty One
Safe is safe.
- Dec 28, 2003
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Sadly many people took this view.
Sometimes the temptation to react strongly to what's immediately in front of you is too great.
Bluenote13
Believe In Henke
As a Ranger, Hank has earned the right to have a bad streak once and awhile. Begin of the season, never when it matters most. The guy saves your arse 9 times out of 10 for years and one bad streak you are comparing him to just another big name not performing a dozen games into his acquisition?
MSL is just another name until he becomes a Ranger, and he'll have to do that by playing up to expectation.
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