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First Impressions of St. Louis

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Nightshift said:
Nothing wrong with that, but it isn't even 2015 yet. I don't expect a no.1 pick coming back from anywhere, but id like to see what picks could be recovered before that draft or if we get a pick back for Callahan resigning before we call it a potential disaster.
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Unfortunately Sather's M.O. is that the same thing can happen next year. At the deadline we aren't close to a contract with Marc Staal, so we trade Staal, a first and a second to San Jose for Joe Thornton. The Satherites love it, we finally have a center to get St Louis going, Nash and Lundqvist are in their 'win'-dow, draft picks are a crapshoot anyway, blah blah blah.

Sather. Rinse. Repeat.
 
Nightshift said:
Nothing wrong with that, but it isn't even 2015 yet. I don't expect a no.1 pick coming back from anywhere, but id like to see what picks could be recovered before that draft or if we get a pick back for Callahan resigning before we call it a potential disaster.
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No, it already is a potential disaster. If Sather doesn't recoup some picks, our already below average farm system will be even worse.
 
aufheben said:
No, it already is a potential disaster. If Sather doesn't recoup some picks, our already below average farm system will be even worse.
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If the Rangers decide they want to go with Carcillo, Dorsett could be dealt for a 3rd, maybe a 2nd.

As I've said they need to be economical with the loss of high picks. They seem to have done great with the 3 3rds last year. Now scout the NCAA, scout Europe, pick up some of the late bloomers like Zuccarello. Conor Allen and Haggerty are good starts in that respect.

Honestly, if we had a 1st and 2nd last year and had drafted Duclair and Buch followed by Tambellini, I don't think anyone would be complaining at this point.

MLS needs to find a line he works with, that's all. I think Nash-Richards-MSL could work.
 
Fitzy said:
Honestly, if we had a 1st and 2nd last year and had drafted Duclair and Buch followed by Tambellini, I don't think anyone would be complaining at this point.
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Because at this point it's too early to tell what type of NHL contributors they will be, if any. While the draft is not a certainty by any means, the higher you pick, the better chance you have to be successful.
 
Ail said:
Poor analogies. Expensive suits and cars are backed by warrantys and gaurantees, they are generally accepted back in return for your money if they don't fit or run as expected. Would you buy something like that if it wasn't or if the seller said, "this might run well for you, no promises?" No. Of course not.
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You asked what happens in my life. I told you. When I pay high prices for anything, I expect them to function.
The big difference however is that trading for a player has no return policy or gaurantee. All sales are final and everyone involved knows that.
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Yes, and the so-called pessimists are pointing out that making such a trade in a vacuum was short-sighted. And, while we certainly want more than anything for MSL to be the player he is supposed to be, this trade was about instant gratification. As such, it is failing.
So let me ask you this, if someone bought you a $20 big scratch off ticket, would you then immediately start complaining about how you might not win the jackpot and they just wasted $20?
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For $20, no. If someone spent $200,000 and ALSO gave up future vesting stock options, yeah such a person might be upset.
 
Fitzy said:
MLS needs to find a line he works with, that's all. I think Nash-Richards-MSL could work.
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When you are purported to be a superstar and one of the best players in the league, you should not have to rely on other people to make you a good player.
 
Nightshift said:
Well I cant dispute that we haven't won a cup since he arrived, so ya got me.
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And he's had 14 years to build a consistent Stanley Cup contender and not only has he not come close, he's sacrificed the future as well. Blueprint for failure.
 
Nightshift said:
One of our top pair D and leading PPG player were undrafted.
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Just how often does that happen?
No, just a select few. Comb through the thread if you like. I'm not doing your work for you.
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You can hate Sather AND hate the trade. No one hates the trade just because it was a Sather trade.
My apologies, you must have a blueprint in front of you.
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There are plenty of successful blueprints from plenty of franchises. How about you start with NOT discarding draft picks and drafting wisely? Building your core from within, as opposed from the outside. Just a start.
 
I despised this trade 2 seconds after the trigger was pulled and I still hate it.


The ONLY (and I mean ONLY) way this trade is worth it for us is the following scenario:

-TB selects duds with our picks
-Callahan resigns with TB
-MSL scores at PPG pace in the playoffs and puts up 70 points next season

He has been completely abysmal. I'm not even counting the PHX game because I know he was sick. He looks like a worse version of Zuccarello. Easy to knock off the puck, loses board battles, doesn't create space at all. Outside of 3 or 4 nice passes and one nice forecheck tip he's done pretty much nothing. To think we gave up a guaranteed 1st and another potential one, plus our captain for this guy is nauseating. He needs to put pucks in the net and create chances YESTERDAY. Him, Nash and Richards need to step up right now because having McDonagh and Lundqvist putting this team on their backs as a 2 man show is a perfect recipe for a 1st round exit
 
Nightshift said:
So you have 3 teams out of 30 that have gotten it right in your eyes, they compete for a cup year in year out for the most part. Though they look to be quite good at the moment, the Blues haven't won a thing.
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While I agree you need to build from the draft to be a perennial contender, every contender save for CHI has been major buyers the past few years at the deadline to fill holes.

STL: Miller, Roy, Ott
BOS: Iginla, Jagr
PIT: Iginla, Morrow, Stempniak etc

Free agents/trades for established players adding to a young core seems to be the way to go. The problem for us is that we don't draft as well as we could (Tarasenko, I'm looking at you) and we target the wrong players via UFA/trade
 
Nightshift said:
So you have 3 teams out of 30 that have gotten it right in your eyes, they compete for a cup year in year out for the most part. Though they look to be quite good at the moment, the Blues haven't won a thing.
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Successful teams follow different models, but they all start with the draft. Not only do the Rangers seemingly never have a model, or, if they do, they change it within a couple years, but now we're spending too many draft picks as well.

Don't know what else to tell you. Think it's a coincidence that our most successful team in like 20 years was full of homegrown players?
 
Ail said:
Serious question, as fans on this board with no control at all, what else can we do? I'd rather hope the dolt did something right for a change than lament that he probably never will. It's not an excuse, it's all we can do. Those draft picks are never coming back.
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I dont generally get into game by game analysis because I think the gameday thread is a cesspool and waste of time. I come here to talk Rangers hockey and, specifically, what I find most important - which is management's policy and roster building techniques. The lack of planning and lack of talent 1-20 on the roster have been piss poor for 14 years now.

Dont know if you've picked this up by now, but Im not the type of guy that searches for a silver lining. Im also under no illusion that whats typed on a message board will change things, but that doesn't mean Im about to grin and bear it.
 
We have seen time and time again that building around players from outside the organization is not a recipe for success. In a capped league, building a homegrown core of young, cost-controlled players is essential.

The Rangers appear to be straying away from building through the draft in order to go it for now. They have had 9 picks in the last two drafts, giving them the least picks of any team in the league in that timespan. At the moment I believe they have only 5 picks in the 2014 draft, and they won't have a 1st in 2015. There may be some tough times ahead regarding prospect depth as well as quality of prospects (having so few picks gives the organization little margin for error in the draft).
 
OverTheCap said:
We have seen time and time again that building around players from outside the organization is not a recipe for success. In a capped league, building a homegrown core of young, cost-controlled players is essential.

The Rangers appear to be straying away from building through the draft in order to go it for now. They have had 9 picks in the last two drafts, giving them the least picks of any team in the league in that timespan. At the moment I believe they have only 5 picks in the 2014 draft, and they won't have a 1st in 2015. There may be some tough times ahead regarding prospect depth as well as quality of prospects (having so few picks gives the organization little margin for error in the draft).
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Sather has an awful propensity to meander away from that thinking whenever hes presented the opportunity to do so.
 
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