First Impressions of St. Louis

[haveandare]

Sort of correlates with my point.

I guess you'll learn to hate MSL if/when hes not a PPG player here.

That in no way correlates with your point at all.

You compared expecting MSL to rebound with expecting Richards to do the same. MSL is in a slump in an otherwise hugely productive period that has lasted years and years. Richards has been playing poorly more often than not since he's come to this team.

They're actually the complete opposite. MSL has been great for a long period and is in a cold spell, while Richards has been bad for a long period and now and then has good games.

 

[haveandare]

It's not the same, this isn't October. They're all different contexts. I was never worried about Henrik.

It's taking a small sample size and talking about it as if it's not a small sample size.

I don't mean you in particular, or anyone in particular in every case, but come on, this stuff happens every year. Someone plays poorly for a spell and people start talking as if slumps don't exist and good players are good every single night.

 

[Bleed Ranger Blue]

That in no way correlates with your point at all.

You compared expecting MSL to rebound with expecting Richards to do the same. MSL is in a slump in an otherwise hugely productive period that has lasted years and years. Richards has been playing poorly more often than not since he's come to this team.

They're actually the complete opposite. MSL has been great for a long period and is in a cold spell, while Richards has been bad for a long period and now and then has good games.

Yea....

 

[RGY]

It's not the same, this isn't October. They're all different contexts. I was never worried about Henrik.

And why were you never worried about henrik?

 

[haveandare]

Yea....

Has he not?

I'm sorry, but I don't buy this whole supernatural bad juju on the Rangers idea. It's absurd.

Player X was Y many years old...and now he's in the same jersey as player Z was. The gods of hockey are going to suck his skill away and take it to lord xenu, right? Or, you know, many of the older players who were signed as UFAs here were bound to decline in production or were hit with injuries that couldn't have been foreseen, and that has nothing to do with other players who are in no way comparable except for being roughly the same age.

I'm sure when you ask people for players comparable to St Louis, Drury and Gomez are at the top of their minds.

 

[Bleed Ranger Blue]

Has he not?

I'm sorry, but I don't buy this whole supernatural bad juju on the Rangers idea. It's absurd.

Player X was Y many years old...and now he's in the same jersey as player Z was. The gods of hockey are going to suck his skill away and take it to lord xenu, right? Or, you know, many of the older players who were signed as UFAs here were bound to decline in production or were hit with injuries that couldn't have been foreseen, and that has nothing to do with other players who are in no way comparable except for being roughly the same age.

I'm sure when you ask people for players comparable to St Louis, Drury and Gomez are at the top of their minds.

I wasn't sold that a soon to be 39 year old player could replicate his production of the last 5 years going forward anyway. It was approached as a foregone conclusion. If nothing else, these 11 games could serve as a reality check.

I think he'll produce, eventually, but I don't know if he'll ever be a PPG forward, on this team, going forward. We could do a deep audit of this situation if you'd like, but this whole thing started because people are lying to themselves and saying MSL has been fine for these 11 games. Its a crock.

 

[True Blue]

"Give him time"....**** that. I want what we paid for, goddamnit.

Exactly. The assets used to get him were not for his possible upside

 

[Bleed Ranger Blue]

Exactly. The assets used to get him were not for his possible upside

If theres one luxury this trade does not have, its time.

 

[aufheben]

And why were you never worried about henrik?

Because he had all season to figure it out?..

 

[Thirty One]

I wasn't sold that a soon to be 39 year old player could replicate his production of the last 5 years going forward anyway. It was approached as a foregone conclusion. If nothing else, these 11 games could serve as a reality check.

I think he'll produce, eventually, but I don't know if he'll ever be a PPG forward, on this team, going forward. We could do a deep audit of this situation if you'd like, but this whole thing started because people are lying to themselves and saying MSL has been fine for these 11 games. Its a crock.

I believe in the concept of aging, but I don't think its this abrupt. St. Louis scored 61 points in 62 games before the trade. He had 8 goals and 7 assists in a 12 game stretch that ended less than a month ago.

 

[SingnBluesOnBroadway]

If theres one luxury this trade does not have, its time.

And evidently assets are a luxury as well.

 

[Bleed Ranger Blue]

I believe in the concept of aging, but I don't think its this abrupt. St. Louis scored 61 points in 62 games before the trade. He had 8 goals and 7 assists in a 12 game stretch that ended less than a month ago.

He wouldnt be the first person whose production fell off a cliff after coming to the Rangers.

Would love for MSL to smash my skepticism that is admittedly built over several years and different teams.

 

[haveandare]

I wasn't sold that a soon to be 39 year old player could replicate his production of the last 5 years going forward anyway. It was approached as a foregone conclusion. If nothing else, these 11 games could serve as a reality check.

I think he'll produce, eventually, but I don't know if he'll ever be a PPG forward, on this team, going forward. We could do a deep audit of this situation if you'd like, but this whole thing started because people are lying to themselves and saying MSL has been fine for these 11 games. Its a crock.

I think that will be a real concern at some point, but I truly don't think that today is that point. I don't say that to justify my point of view or to incite argument, I just really don't think age takes that type of toll in that kind of way. I don't think it's a PPG forward one day, guy who struggles to put up any points the next kind of transition.

I think we saw a good example of how age can effect a player toward the end of their most productive days with Gaborik. You notice skills going pretty obviously. The speed loses it's edge. The vision is a step behind. I really, honestly don't see that happening with St Louis right now. I agree that it's just awful that he hasn't scored, I can't say he's been "fine" because scoring forwards need to score, but I really don't think he's been bad otherwise (and yes, I realize that is still a negative in itself since scoring should be his first, second and third priority). But really, he's been about as good as a scoring winger can be while not scoring. He's made some real heads-up plays that teammates haven't capitalized on. He's had an active stick. He's pressured the opponents on the forecheck. Does that justify the lack of points? No. He's absolutely got to score.

I don't think it's a given that he'll be a PPG player, but I think that given the sample sizes we're looking at with him playing at that level compared to not playing at that level, it's a safer bet that he'll be closer to PPG than what he's at now over the long term.

 

[Thirty One]

He wouldnt be the first person whose production fell off a cliff after coming to the Rangers.

Would love for MSL to smash my skepticism that is admittedly built over several years and different teams.

If Jagr didn't do that, I'm not sure what Marty could do that would.

Though I couldn't imagine the reaction after Jagr's first game

 

[Bleed Ranger Blue]

If Jagr didn't do that, I'm not sure what Marty could do that would.

Though I couldn't imagine the reaction after Jagr's first game

I remember that one. What a gemstone.

I do think that game was FINALLY the indicator to Sather that he needed to clean house.

 

[RGY]

Because he had all season to figure it out?..

Yes, but how did you know he was going to figure it out? Telling me he had 60+ games is not the reason.

 

[aufheben]

Yes, but how did you know he was going to figure it out? Telling me he had 60+ games is not the reason.

Because he's been consistently awesome his whole career. If this is going where I think it is, allow me to state this for the 1,000,000,000,000th time: I'm not concerned about "if", I'm concerned about "when". If not, I apologize.

Possibly worth mentioning that Henrik isn't 38, as well.

 

[RGY]

Because he's been consistently awesome his whole career. If this is going where I think it is, allow me to state this for the 1,000,000,000,000th time: I'm not concerned about "if", I'm concerned about "when".

That's exactly where this is going because if you can sit here and tell me you knew Henrik would figure it out at some point then the same belief can be shared for MSL. He has been consistently awesome his whole career, a professional with a stanley cup...he will figure it out.

 

[aufheben]

Alrighty, apparently a trillion isn't a high enough number.

 

[Ail]

Alrighty, apparently a trillion isn't a high enough number.

Let me ask you this, at this point the team with a cold MSL just won 4 straight including some pretty emotional ones, they have 97% chance of making the playoffs and a cold MSL is not going to be the lone reason they don't, should that happen; knowing that are you worried he will remain in a slump the rest of this season including the playoffs?

Seems irrational to me to worry he'll make it in to the playoffs on a cold streak let alone through them. I would understand this outrage and disappointment much more if they just lost the last 4. I'll personally start tying him to the stake if he doesn't contribute for the rest of this season, but until then it's a bit premature.

 

[True Blue]

he will figure it out.

So will Kamensky. So will Holik. So will Bure. So will Kasperitis. So will Lindros. So will Higgins. So will Redden. So will Gomez. I am sure that I am leaving someone out.

 

[True Blue]

Seems irrational to me to worry he'll make it in to the playoffs on a cold streak let alone through them.

Seems irrational to me to ignore the assets that were given up for MSL, if he does not live up to the purchase price.
This type of trade is a NOW trade. It does not have the luxury of waiting for MSL to find his game. He was brought in to produce NOW and to make a difference NOW.

 

[jskramer83]

I'm not even sure if this is about Marty, or more about when AV figures out a good line combo with him.

He was best in Tampa with Modin (a big pwf) - Richards - St Louis.

Why not try a combo of Kreider - Stepan - St Louis. It's not exactly like Nash is tearing it up on that line. Though he is playing much better last couple of games.

Zuccc - Brassard - Nash

Hagelin - Richards - Stomache Flu

 

[Thirty One]

So will Kamensky. So will Holik. So will Bure. So will Kasperitis. So will Lindros. So will Higgins. So will Redden. So will Gomez. I am sure that I am leaving someone out.

Holik, Kasparaitis, Gomez and Redden gave the Rangers exactly what they should have expected. Bure and Lindros were hampered by injuries.

And then there's Kamensky, which I think is a pretty unfavorable comparison to St. Louis.

 

[Ail]

Seems irrational to me to ignore the assets that were given up for MSL, if he does not live up to the purchase price.
This type of trade is a NOW trade. It does not have the luxury of waiting for MSL to find his game. He was brought in to produce NOW and to make a difference NOW.

Is the team losing or winning NOW? They're winning. Why are you so incensed?

Okay so if the Rangers win the 'Cup and MSL scores no goals and a paltry number of assists in the process, will you still be in this thread complaining?

I obviously believe MSL needs to contribute for this team to go deep, but until they start losing in the playoffs while he continues to offer limited contributions, I don't care.