First Impressions of St. Louis

[RGY]

Dear Lord you are full of ****.

If you put MSL in a Callahan jersey, he'd be burnt at the stake right now.

Full of ****? Based on what? Please explain this to me. And don't lean on your callahan reference which is just crap. Entirely different players. Callahan was loved here but the dismay for him was based on him asking for $6.5-$7 million when he is a 2nd-3rd line tweener who is best suited to play the role of a 3rd liner. No one had a problem with his production until he wanted to be paid like the guy who produces like an elite player.

But you know, there is no point in discussing this with you. When Torts was here and the Kreider roller coaster was on going, Torts could do no wrong in your mind and his system was not flawed. It was the players fault for not having a quality PP unit. Stubborn. And yet Kreider and this PP unit has been much improved under a different coach with an entirely different way of thinking. But I know you will be the first to point out all the flaws in AV.

 

[RGY]

I don't think having high expectations for St. Louis makes anyone a pessimist. All I read leading up to the trade, and in the days after, was how MSL was "last year's Art Ross winner" and he's an "elite forward" and this team "needs finishers". Okay, that's all well and good, but now I'm somehow a pessimist because he's not living up to the expectations that were set for him? I didn't see people lining up with excuses about an "adjustment period" when we traded for him. That only ever comes after the player fails to live up to expectations.

He's not playing well. He's not producing. We gave up a lot to get him. These are all valid concerns and can't simply be deflected with "oh, you're just a pessimist." Will he get better? Probably, but with each game that passes, it's another game closer to the playoffs.

Simply put, you can't put a guy up on a pedestal like 90% of this board did with MSL before the trade, and then suddenly start dumping on people when they question why he's not playing as well as you all said he would.

It's also okay to accept the positive things he has done away from the scoresheet. I can understand the frustrations with his production but he has not been abysmal such as the vibe that is created by some of the members posting in this thread.

 

[SingnBluesOnBroadway]

It's also okay to accept the positive things he has done away from the scoresheet. I can understand the frustrations with his production but he has not been abysmal such as the vibe that is created by some of the members posting in this thread.

You don't mean......intangibles?

 

[Jersey Girl]

For me the thing is that I just don't see an elite forward when I watch St Louis play. I don't'. A really good player, yes, but not elite. He's a hard working little guy with talent, but he does get knocked off the puck too easily.

It's not even all about 3 points in 11 games - although it is partly about that. It's very possible St Louis will have a 'five points in four games, including a few goals' streak (if Brassard can do it, why not St Louis?) in him at some point - and when he does, it's still a bad trade.

Trading a rental, a first and a second for St Louis at this point is insane - or senile. Even when we're sellers, we mortgage the future even further. You can't make this stuff up.

 

[RGY]

You don't mean......intangibles?

I'm just not ready to write the book of failure for the MSL trade like some seem ready to do here. Maybe its because the team is playing well and winning hard fought games. Maybe that is masking it. But at the same time, given MSL's track record, he is a proven scorer throughout his entire career. I'll give him the benefit of the doubt rather than point out is small 11 game sample size with no goals...

 

[RGY]

For me the thing is that I just don't see an elite forward when I watch St Louis play. I don't'. A really good player, yes, but not elite.

It's not even all about 3 points in 11 games - although it is partly about that. It's very possible St Louis will have a 'five points in four games, including a few goals' streak (if Brassard can do it, why not St Louis?) in him at some point - and when he does, it's still a bad trade.

Trading a rental, a first and a second for St Louis at this point is insane - or senile. Even when we're sellers, we mortgage the future even further. You can't make this stuff up.

Who said we were sellers? Not sure where you are getting that from.

 

[Thirty One]

My early scouting report on St. Louis:

Pros:
-Good at setting up Stepan on the powerplay

Cons:
-Lack of finish
-Subpar immune system
-Not as gritty as Boomer suggested

 

[Jersey Girl]

Who said we were sellers? Not sure where you are getting that from.

Normally when you trade a rental you are a seller. That's what a lot of people thought, anyway. But the Buffoon had other plans, of course.

What an amazing trade that turned out to be for Steve Yzerman, though. He addressed both the present and the future at the same time.

 

[Trxjw]

It's also okay to accept the positive things he has done away from the scoresheet. I can understand the frustrations with his production but he has not been abysmal such as the vibe that is created by some of the members posting in this thread.

None of that deters from the fact that he's not producing. You're not going to convince me that we brought him in for his play away from the scoresheet. You don't trade Callahan and multiple high picks for a guy who is making his impact away from the box score. Again, he's not producing. Saying "he's doing other things well" or "he's going to get better" doesn't change that at all.

 

[RGY]

Normally when you trade a rental you are a seller. That's what a lot of people thought, anyway. But the Buffoon had other plans, of course.

What an amazing trade that turned out to be for Steve Yzerman, though. He addressed both the present and the future at the same time.

I didn't realize the season ended, playoffs came and went, and we didn't do any damage to label the trade as a failure for the rangers side of it.

 

[Bleed Ranger Blue]

Full of ****? Based on what? Please explain this to me. And don't lean on your callahan reference which is just crap. Entirely different players. Callahan was loved here but the dismay for him was based on him asking for $6.5-$7 million when he is a 2nd-3rd line tweener who is best suited to play the role of a 3rd liner. No one had a problem with his production until he wanted to be paid like the guy who produces like an elite player.

But you know, there is no point in discussing this with you. When Torts was here and the Kreider roller coaster was on going, Torts could do no wrong in your mind and his system was not flawed. It was the players fault for not having a quality PP unit. Stubborn. And yet Kreider and this PP unit has been much improved under a different coach with an entirely different way of thinking. But I know you will be the first to point out all the flaws in AV.

Im talking strictly about on-ice performance. If Callahan had 0 goals in 11 games, people would be ripping him a new ******* - and hes not even a goal scorer!

Now that MSL has stunk through 11 games, he gets every excuse in the book. Its BS. You pulling out wayward arguments about stuff from years ago, only furthers the notion that theres no good excuse as to why MSL has come in and played like garbage.

I hope he plays better, but Im not going to take your route and fool myself into thinking hes fine right now.

 

[Jersey Girl]

I didn't realize the season ended, playoffs came and went, and we didn't do any damage to label the trade as a failure for the rangers side of it.

I said I don't see an elite forward when I watch St Louis play, and he's not worth what we gave up to have St Louis this year and next.

 

[SingnBluesOnBroadway]

Im talking strictly about on-ice performance. If Callahan had 0 goals in 11 games, people would be ripping him a new ******* - and hes not even a goal scorer!

People would also not give him a pass because of what he's doing away from the scoresheet. And wasn't there talk of Callahan either being or getting old?

 

[Thirty One]

People who wish St. Louis were playing better:
-Me
-You
-St. Louis

To me though, seeing what the Rangers can do with St. Louis falling well below expectations gets me excited for what they can do when he meets them.

 

[Thirty One]

People would also not give him a pass because of what he's doing away from the scoresheet. And wasn't there talk of Callahan either being or getting old?

Yes. For that reason, I found a 6 year deal for Callahan disgusting. I also have no interest in giving St. Louis a 6 year deal.

 

[RGY]

People who wish St. Louis were playing better:
-Me
-You
-St. Louis

To me though, seeing what the Rangers can do with St. Louis falling well below expectations gets me excited for what they can do when he meets them.

The last part of what you say is why i can't be so up in arms about his play thus far.

 

[SixGoalieSystem]

People would also not give him a pass because of what he's doing away from the scoresheet. And wasn't there talk of Callahan either being or getting old?

The argument was rarely about his age per say, but about the state of his body. He has taken so much punishment and is likely to struggle more as he advances in years and the wear and tear starts to take it's toll even more. Remember what he was asking for - a seven year deal and a NMC.

MSL on the other hand, while older, seems like he can take any punishment this sport is willing to dish out. He has missed 13 games for all of his career and will likely be playing in the league for quite a few years more.

But of course he needs to score and what he's doing now is not good enough.

 

[Bleed Ranger Blue]

Yes. For that reason, I found a 6 year deal for Callahan disgusting. I also have no interest in giving St. Louis a 6 year deal.

Dont know what would've been better at this point:

1. Holding onto Callahan, keeping the draft picks, and letting him go this summer

2. Forking over more assets for MSL and hoping he plays better in advance of his 39th birthday

I dont know....I would've been happy with Chris Stewart and a pick coming back for Callahan -- but thats obviously not sexy enough for Rangers management.

 

[Bleed Ranger Blue]

The last part of what you say is why i can't be so up in arms about his play thus far.

And thats a benefit that only seems to be given to a shiny new toy....and I don't know why.

Brad Richards has been playing like **** too. Are we excited about what would happen if he rebounded to the player he was?

 

[aufheben]

The last part of what you say is why i can't be so up in arms about his play thus far.

He's lucky other guys have stepped up, because things were much less certain a couple weeks ago. He's done very little in helping this team secure a playoff spot. Maybe when he finds his game, other players cool off.

9 games away from the playoffs. He needs to get it together NOW. If others have such zen-like levels of patience, that's their prerogative, but this is NOT a trade that necessitates patience.

"Give him time"....**** that. I want what we paid for, goddamnit.

 

[haveandare]

And thats a benefit that only seems to be given to a shiny new toy....and I don't know why.

Brad Richards has been playing like **** too. Are we excited about what would happen if he rebounded to the player he was?

Yeah, it has nothing to do with his past scoring, or his scoring even this year.

Someone who has hovered around a PPG pace all year this year and every year since 2006 is totally comparable to Brad Richards who hasn't been on that pace in roughly 4 years and has looked like a clueless disaster for huge chunks of the last two seasons.

 

[Punxrocknyc19*]

St.Louis has played majority of his NHL career with one team. it will take some time for him to click in a new city, new area, new teammates, new coaches etc....


unless he just decided to come here and coast till his retirement

 

[haveandare]

These are the people that when they are right, they are 1000% right and never let you forget...

And when they're wrong they either deny or hope no one remembers so they don't have to deal with it.

Just for the sake of reminding everyone of how this usually turns out...let's see...this year alone, Hank was an albatross, Girardi was downright bad, Stepan wasn't a 1C, couldn't skate, and should be traded (same thing last year to start) - who else? Oh right, Callahan was falling apart even though some of the same people are now pointing to his production in TB as a sign of why the MSL deal was so bad.

It's a merry-go-round of knee-jerk negativity that magically disappears once it's no longer relevant. Being negative is fine when it's founded. Being negative about something new, and obviously fleeting, every week is just tiring and ridiculous.

 

[Bleed Ranger Blue]

Yeah, it has nothing to do with his past scoring, or his scoring even this year.

Someone who has hovered around a PPG pace all year this year and every year since 2006 is totally comparable to Brad Richards who hasn't been on that pace in roughly 4 years and has looked like a clueless disaster for huge chunks of the last two seasons.

Sort of correlates with my point.

I guess you'll learn to hate MSL if/when hes not a PPG player here.

 

[aufheben]

It's not the same, this isn't October. They're all different contexts. I was never worried about Henrik.