First Impressions of St. Louis

[Bleed Ranger Blue]

That's hilarious!

We can have a 1st line of Landeskog, Crosby and St. Louis and it would still not meet some expectations. People expect a guy to come into NY, be part of a new team and score 50 goals without adjusting to the system, players etc.

People need to be more realistic. This is not NHL14

I expect more than 0 goals in 10 games in the midst of a playoff race.

I dont think those expectations are outlandish, at all.

Nobody has given a good answer as to why it hasn't taken Callahan a month to adjust to Tampa's system. Its a BS excuse.

 

[GarretJoseph*]

I've seen him take some hits now that leave me gasping much like the bombs cally would jump in front of.

It's bad enough watching Zuc get nailed and expecting the worst but now ST Louis as well.. God help us in the playoffs

 

[BOLTMAN]

I have only seen a small portion of a couple of your last few games. So I have not seen enough of MSL playing with the Rangers. (I want to watch a whole game to see what is going on but I guess he isn't playing tonight)

The only thing I'll say is that he is the real deal. No matter who is on his line he is a mover and shaker. I have no idea why he would not being putting up numbers with the Rangers. Now Marty has always been with the top six Lighting forwards so he has always had quality around him. But I can't believe that your top six would be so horrible that it would bring his play down this far.

And btw I don't see his play fading away in the next two years. And he will still be decent after that (this is a guy that is in extremely great shape and I don't see any difference in his speed).

Why don't you post on the Lightning boards and ask if anyone has been watching the Rangers games and see what they think of St Louis play. Or did you get feedback on that already?

Hope the deal works out for both teams.

 

[Cake or Death]

That's not what he meant and you know that. He was supposed to be an upgrade to Callahan (otherwise, why did the Rangers add picks?).

That's seriously your take? To me common sense dictates that the Rangers added picks because it is well documented that Cally is asking way, way more than he is worth. So the picks are the actual return TB gets if Cally bolts to the highest bidder in the off season. Without the picks, the trade is an oft-injured rental who probably leaves TB, straight up for the reigning Art Ross winner who rarely gets injured and is on an outstanding contract relative to his performance this season. You seriously think that trade scenario happens straight up without something tangible added for TB beyond Cally's probable rental time?

 

[Amazing Kreiderman]

I expect more than 0 goals in 10 games in the midst of a playoff race.

I dont think those expectations are outlandish, at all.

Nobody has given a good answer as to why it hasn't taken Callahan a month to adjust to Tampa's system. Its a BS excuse.

Maybe people should look a bit further than stats. Look at how he plays. He creates out of nothing, but is unlucky. He's not gliding like Richards. He actually brings something to the table. Also, having him on our 2nd line, gives Nash a chance to play against D-men other than top-pairing ones because teams have to divide their quality D-men to cover 2 lines. I feel that is 1 of the reasons Nash has been doing better lately.

 

[Cake or Death]

I have only seen a small portion of a couple of your last few games. So I have not seen enough of MSL playing with the Rangers. (I want to watch a whole game to see what is going on but I guess he isn't playing tonight)

The only thing I'll say is that he is the real deal. No matter who is on his line he is a mover and shaker. I have no idea why he would not being putting up numbers with the Rangers. Now Marty has always been with the top six Lighting forwards so he has always had quality around him. But I can't believe that your top six would be so horrible that it would bring his play down this far.

And btw I don't see his play fading away in the next two years. And he will still be decent after that (this is a guy that is in extremely great shape and I don't see any difference in his speed).

Why don't you post on the Lightning boards and ask if anyone has been watching the Rangers games and see what they think of St Louis play. Or did you get feedback on that already?

Hope the deal works out for both teams.

Because the NYR forum, in general, is negative, has no patience, and must not have seen much of MSL outside this 10 game window, because they largely seem to have no idea how well conditioned he is. People who follow things beyond the Garden seem more than aware that MSL is one of the best conditioned athletes in the league, a guy who can easily play another 3-4 seasons at a very high level, and will do so at what is likely a very team-friendly contract. But to short-sighted people, well, I guess this is a bust if we don't win a Cup in the next 3 seconds and the final results of a trade should be judged right this second.

Now, on the flip side, and in well-earned fairness to my fellow NYR fans, there have been more than a few horrific moves for aging vets by our front office. I simply do not count MSL in that mold because he is in utterly exceptional shape, does not have injury issues, is still playing at a high level, and has shown a willingness in his veteran years to take VERY team-friendly contracts.

 

[SingnBluesOnBroadway]

That's seriously your take? To me common sense dictates that the Rangers added picks because it is well documented that Cally is asking way, way more than he is worth. So the picks are the actual return TB gets if Cally bolts to the highest bidder in the off season. Without the picks, the trade is an oft-injured rental who probably leaves TB, straight up for the reigning Art Ross winner who rarely gets injured and is on an outstanding contract relative to his performance this season. You seriously think that trade scenario happens straight up without something tangible added for TB beyond Cally's probable rental time?

I actually have no idea why the Rangers added picks. When was the last time a UFA to be was traded along with picks? And for a guy who was firm that the only team he wanted to go to was the Rangers.

Do I think a deal gets done without the Rangers adding those picks? Probably not. But I'm not sure why the Rangers had to deal Callahan.

 

[SingnBluesOnBroadway]

Because the NYR forum, in general, is negative, has no patience

Has no patience? The majority of people who you consider negative have been calling for a proper rebuild for years now. And that would require, wait for it, patience/

must not have seen much of MSL outside this 10 game window, because they largely seem to have no idea how well conditioned he is. People who follow things beyond the Garden seem more than aware that MSL is one of the best conditioned athletes in the league

I'm glad he's in shape. Now about that lack of scoring thing....,

a guy who can easily play another 3-4 seasons at a very high level, and will do so at what is likely a very team-friendly contract.

Based on what?

But to short-sighted people, well, I guess this is a bust if we don't win a Cup in the next 3 seconds and the final results of a trade should be judged right this second.

Not the next three seconds. Next two seasons however....

 

[Emptyvoid]

I actually have no idea why the Rangers added picks. When was the last time a UFA to be was traded along with picks? And for a guy who was firm that the only team he wanted to go to was the Rangers.

Do I think a deal gets done without the Rangers adding those picks? Probably not. But I'm not sure why the Rangers had to deal Callahan.

As for the picks being included, it was really stupid and complete impatience on Sather's end. I feel it would've been smarter to trade Cally for prospects/picks/young roster players and then deal for St. Louis in the summer.

It reeks of overpayment similar to how the Knicks overpayed for Melo during the season (a bit different situations, but similar in that both players would've been easier to get during the summer).

 

[True Blue]

Maybe people should look a bit further than stats. Look at how he plays.

He was brought in here to score goals and get a bubble team over the top. What else is there to look at?

He creates out of nothing

What has he created?

 

[Emptyvoid]

He was brought in here to score goals and get a bubble team over the top. What else is there to look at?

What has he created?

Do you view him as a goal scorer?

I've always viewed him as a play maker first and goal scorer second. The type of guy that passes first but if he's in a good opportunity to shoot, he will and he will score a lot like that.

He's made a lot of good passes that his teammates haven't finished. Like just last game, that pass to Zucc that he one timed. If Zucc lifted that puck just a tad, it would've been a goal.

Small things like that, when you're a play maker, will affect your point totals.

 

[True Blue]

People expect a guy to come into NY, be part of a new team and score 50 goals without adjusting to the system, players etc.

When you trade a 38 year old, a 1st round pick and a second round pick for a 38 year olds performance for a quarter of the season, you do not get the adjustment to the system, players, etc. excuse.

People need to be more realistic. This is not NHL14

MSL was touted as being an elite player in the league. A true superstar. One who will make a difference. A true difference maker. How much more realistic do you want to get?

 

[aufheben]

I have only seen a small portion of a couple of your last few games. So I have not seen enough of MSL playing with the Rangers. (I want to watch a whole game to see what is going on but I guess he isn't playing tonight)

The only thing I'll say is that he is the real deal. No matter who is on his line he is a mover and shaker. I have no idea why he would not being putting up numbers with the Rangers. Now Marty has always been with the top six Lighting forwards so he has always had quality around him. But I can't believe that your top six would be so horrible that it would bring his play down this far.

And btw I don't see his play fading away in the next two years. And he will still be decent after that (this is a guy that is in extremely great shape and I don't see any difference in his speed).

Why don't you post on the Lightning boards and ask if anyone has been watching the Rangers games and see what they think of St Louis play. Or did you get feedback on that already?

Hope the deal works out for both teams.

Thanks for your input. I'm not worried about him long term, I'm just frankly pissed that he hasn't score yet.

HFNYR: For the 1,000,000,000th time, it's not a concern of if he'll come around, it's a concern of when. Given current circumstances, I don't see how that is unjustified.

 

[True Blue]

Do you view him as a goal scorer?

I do view him as a goal scorer. He was brought in a such to a team whose purported need was for goal scorers.

Yes, he is a playmaker as well. But 3 assists in 10 games do not do it for me.

 

[Cake or Death]

I actually have no idea why the Rangers added picks. When was the last time a UFA to be was traded along with picks? And for a guy who was firm that the only team he wanted to go to was the Rangers.

We're seriously gonna compare apples and space ships? Almost always the rental is traded for lesser players, not the reigning Art Ross winner who at the time of trade is one of the top point producers in the league and on an excellent contract term.

Do I think a deal gets done without the Rangers adding those picks? Probably not. But I'm not sure why the Rangers had to deal Callahan.

They clearly didn't have to. We could re-sign him to an insane contract, even though north of 6 mil seems to me a tad high for a guy who is 3rd on the Rangers' RW depth chart and has injury issues. We can let him walk and keep the picks. We let a real asset go for nothing tangible in return, and know statistically that the 15th-30th first round picks have about a 51% chance of becoming a 3rd or 4th liner or 3rd pairing D, and about a 4% chance of being top two lines or top two D pairings.

Look, I can't stand Sather and have wanted him gone for over ten years, and normally I'd totally agree with you. But St Louis is not our typical Pejorative Slured vet acquisition imho: he's in impeccable shape; is not really slowing down; was a top 10 scorer this year at time of trade; has stated no known desire to retire any time soon; absolutely signed very, very low for TB (an Art Ross winner at a $5.6 mil cap hit is insane); wants to be here, so you can deduce he'd give us a good deal if he extends.

I understand the argument that MSL isn't the piece that may make us a legit Cup team. But Hank also ensures we are never a lottery/re-build team. That said, if we're x pieces away from contender, and have Hank while he still playing well, I'd also say however many pieces away we might be from contender status, that MSL brings us one step closer to that end.

 

[Doctyl]

Thanks for your input. I'm not worried about him long term, I'm just frankly pissed that he hasn't score yet.

HFNYR: For the 1,000,000,000th time, it's not a concern of if he'll come around, it's a concern of when. Given current circumstances, I don't see how that is unjustified.

thats absolutely justified. Its other posters who are saying he should just retire now because he sucks or that he has 1 more season left at best. You get it, MSL doesnt suck and he will come around. Just have to hope he gets red hot going into the playoffs I guess.

 

[GAGLine]

But to short-sighted people, well, I guess this is a bust if we don't win a Cup in the next 3 seconds and the final results of a trade should be judged right this second.

We traded a soon to be 29 yo Callahan, a 1st round pick and a 2nd round pick for a soon to be 39 yo MSL. Do you honestly think that's a long term investment? Really? But we're the short-sighted ones.

The fact is, MSL has 1 year left on his contract and he will be 40 years old. If he leaves or retires and we don't win a cup this year or next, then what do we have left to show for the trade? Nothing.

I'd rather have Cally for 6 years than MSL for 1.25. I'd rather have those picks which may turn into a player or two for us for the next 10+ years. There's no guarantee that those picks would have become players for us, but I can guarantee they won't become players for us now.

 

[Doctyl]

We traded a soon to be 29 yo Callahan, a 1st round pick and a 2nd round pick for a soon to be 39 yo MSL. Do you honestly think that's a long term investment? Really? But we're the short-sighted ones.

The fact is, MSL has 1 year left on his contract and he will be 40 years old. If he leaves or retires and we don't win a cup this year or next, then what do we have left to show for the trade? Nothing.

I'd rather have Cally for 6 years than MSL for 1.25. I'd rather have those picks which may turn into a player or two for us for the next 10+ years. There's no guarantee that those picks would have become players for us, but I can guarantee they won't become players for us now.

Cally would not be worth 6 million with a NMC in 6 years. I would rather have nothing than be stuck with Drury round 2. There are still too many pieces of this trade that havent been decided yet. Does Cally re-sign? Do the rangers make the ECF? If Cally does not resign and we dont make the ECF, the trade is Callahan, a 1st and a 7th for MSL. That really isnt a bad deal especially if you consider that MSL is likely to extend annually like Selanne does.

 

[Cake or Death]

We traded a soon to be 29 yo Callahan, a 1st round pick and a 2nd round pick for a soon to be 39 yo MSL. Do you honestly think that's a long term investment? Really? But we're the short-sighted ones.

The fact is, MSL has 1 year left on his contract and he will be 40 years old. If he leaves or retires and we don't win a cup this year or next, then what do we have left to show for the trade? Nothing.

I'd rather have Cally for 6 years than MSL for 1.25. I'd rather have those picks which may turn into a player or two for us for the next 10+ years. There's no guarantee that those picks would have become players for us, but I can guarantee they won't become players for us now.

I answered most of this in my last post and don't need to repeat the same stuff, but yes, this board is the epitome of knee-jerk reactions. I don't judge that or say that as an insult: that is probably an across the board nature of passionate fans who want to see the team they follow do well.

 

[Bleed Ranger Blue]

Cally would not be worth 6 million with a NMC in 6 years. I would rather have nothing than be stuck with Drury round 2. There are still too many pieces of this trade that havent been decided yet. Does Cally re-sign? Do the rangers make the ECF? If Cally does not resign and we dont make the ECF, the trade is Callahan, a 1st and a 7th for MSL. That really isnt a bad deal especially if you consider that MSL is likely to extend annually like Selanne does.

Comical to frame this like the only 2 choices were to pay Callahan or trade for MSL. Granted those were the easiest options and the ones sather pursued. Speaks volumes about him

 

[Doctyl]

Comical to frame this like the only 2 choices were to pay Callahan or trade for MSL. Granted those were the easiest options and the ones sather pursued. Speaks volumes about him

What were the other options? the sellers market was atrocious this year.

 

[SingnBluesOnBroadway]

What were the other options? the sellers market was atrocious this year.

There was value in keeping him for a playoff run.

There was value in being able to continue negotiations with him.

There was value in being able to deal him to a team who would be interested in the exclusive negotiating window from the time the season ended to free agency started.

 

[Doctyl]

There was value in keeping him for a playoff run.

There was value in being able to continue negotiations with him.

There was value in being able to deal him to a team who would be interested in the exclusive negotiating window from the time the season ended to free agency started.

No there really wasnt, Cally doesnt do **** in the playoffs

He was insane. He rejected a 6x6 offer. the NMC pushed Slats over the edge.

Cally's rights have a hell of a lot less value (especially with his ludicrous demands) than Cally as a rental.

 

[SingnBluesOnBroadway]

I don't agree with what you wrote.

At very least, there was value in "letting him walk for nothing": a first and a second.

 

[mulli25]

Letting Cally walk for nothing would have been a better choice than the trade Sather made.

Anything would have been better than doubling down on bad asset management for another 1.5 seasons of marginally-greater-than-mediocre hockey.