First Impressions of St. Louis

[DudMan28]

Odd that Ryan Callahan hasn't needed a grace period to get acclimated. And if MSL's confidence this that paper thin, that's a larger issue.

And just for clarification if the Rangers were 3-6-1 since the trade, then it would be OK to be displeased with MSL?

I thought we were talking about Martin St. Louis and not Ryan Callahan? Some players are going to be different than others. Fact is, the team is still winning games. It's not like Marty has looked like Brad Richards out there. He has made some nice plays and the points will start coming eventually. Give the guy more than 10 games before we start crucifying him..

Edit for the bolded: I never said I was pleased with him. But the fact that we are winning games certainly makes it easier to tolerate his lack of production. Again, its only been 10 games.

 

[SingnBluesOnBroadway]

I thought we were talking about Martin St. Louis and not Ryan Callahan? Some players are going to be different than others. Fact is, the team is still winning games. It's not like Marty has looked like Brad Richards out there. He has made some nice plays and the points will start coming eventually. Give the guy more than 10 games before we start crucifying him..

We are talking about Martin St. Louis. We're also hearing a lot about giving him time and letting him adjust. The fact is, he's allegedly an elite player and when you're a deadline acquisition, there is no time for adjustment.. Meanwhile, the disposal, glorified third liner hasn't needed that time to produce. And when

And let's not crucify Brad Richards. I mean, they're still winning games. Right?

 

[DudMan28]

We are talking about Martin St. Louis. We're also hearing a lot about giving him time and letting him adjust. The fact is, he's allegedly an elite player and when you're a deadline acquisition, there is no time for adjustment.. Meanwhile, the disposal, glorified third liner hasn't needed that time to produce. And when

And let's not crucify Brad Richards. I mean, they're still winning games. Right?

Callahan isn't on the Rangers anymore. I could really care less what Cally is doing down in TB. He's producing you say? Good for him. Not my problem.

MSL is on the Rangers. I don't think he has played great. I don't think he has played up to par. I dont believe I ever said anything like that. I'm simply saying give him a little bit more time before people start calling the trade a bust. If you took 10 game samples from Cally and MSL throughout their careers do you think Marty would out-produce Cally in every single one? No, he wouldn't, because thats ridiculous to believe.

We got Marty for a playoff push. Were in a playoff position. If he blows during the playoffs, ill be the first to give him **** for it.

As for your cheeky Brad Richards comment, I thought it was cute.

 

[SingnBluesOnBroadway]

Callahan isn't on the Rangers anymore. I could really care less what Cally is doing down in TB. He's producing you say? Good for him. Not my problem.

Fine. Ales Hemsky hasn't needed an adjustment period in Ottawa. This "give him time" argument is bunk. You yourself said that they got MSL for a playoff push. If that's the case, there's no time for an adjustment period.

MSL is on the Rangers. I don't think he has played great. I don't think he has played up to par. I dont believe I ever said anything like that. I'm simply saying give him a little bit more time before people start calling the trade a bust. If you took 10 game samples from Cally and MSL throughout their careers do you think Marty would out-produce Cally in every single one? No, he wouldn't, because thats ridiculous to believe.

How much time should we give him? I don't really care about 10 games samples. I care about this 10 game sample.

We got Marty for a playoff push. Were in a playoff position. If he blows during the playoffs, ill be the first to give him **** for it.

I believe they whey were in a playoff position when they acquired him. But if they got home for a playoff push (and they did), there's no time to let him get settled in. The Rangers, and MSL, don't have that luxury.

As for your cheeky Brad Richards comment, I thought it was cute.

I'm glad you found it cute. I found you're notion to be hypercritical. Who care how a player is playing if the team is winning is fair for MSL but not Richards? Ultimately, Richards has done a lot more for this team than MSL has. And I'm not willing to give him a pass either.

 

[slipknottin]

You'd think for cally + a 1st and a 2nd the return would be better than 3 assists.

 

[DudMan28]

Should he need time to adjust? Probably not. Is it mostly just an excuse for his poor play? Yes. Is it unreasonable to believe that a guy who spent almost 15 years with one team needs a little bit of time to adjust? I dont think so.

My point was simply that some people are claiming the trade is a bust after 10 games. I think thats far too quick to judge a trade of this magnitude. Sure, MSL hasn't played great hockey, but the team has picked it up for him and we are still winning games. You seem to think that I am pleased with his play. I'm not. Doesn't mean I dont make that trade still. Winning games covers up a lot of flaws. Always has, always will.

Shouldn't have said playoff push. My mistake. I meant a Stanley Cup run. If we just wanted to make the playoffs, we would have traded Cally for a roster player/prospect and called it a day. Sather wants to go for it all. Could be his last hurrah as GM. If MSL plays poorly down the stretch than this trade is a complete bust. But again, 10 games in it is far from a "bust".

I never said I cared how Richards was playing? I simply said MSL hasn't looked as bad as BR has. Richards can suck all he wants if we continue to win hockey games.

 

[Ail]

Ten games is all I need to see. He's a loser, trade was a bust, he's not elite, horrible leader, Callahan is the better player, season's over.

The desire to be right about MSL in this thread and spin ******** based off of 10 games is hilarious. From my perspective, they're winning big games without getting a major contribution from one of their best forwards who is bound to come out of this rutt before long. That's a good thing. I'm more concerned about everyone else (Nash, Stepan) taking their foot off the gas rather than MSL not flooring it currently. If the TEAM keeps playing well MSL will find it.

However carry on with the overreactions and dramatic negativity.

 

[SingnBluesOnBroadway]

The desire to be right about MSL in this thread and spin ******** based off of 10 games is hilarious.

FWIW, I have a strong desire to be wrong about MSL.

 

[True Blue]

Ask the New York Yankees about draft picks, they seem to do just fine without drafting well, or keeping their picks.

Ahem....the Core 4 and rings just called to say hello.

 

[True Blue]

Msl has been playing well. He isn't scoring but seriously his linemates blow. One of us could probably finish on half the chances he's produced.

None of us were the ones that Callahan and draft picks were traded for. St. Louis was brought in there to score goals. Period. That is how he will be judged. How well he is playing without scoring goals is debateable.

BTW, he now has 2 goals in his last 23 games.

 

[True Blue]

People who thought MSL would come here and score tons of goals were off in the first place. He controls the play by setting up his teammates. So far, he's done that very well here.

In his career, he has been looked upon as a goal scorer and a facilitator.

Are you honestly saying that his play has been just fine?

 

[Bleed Ranger Blue]

Ten games is all I need to see. He's a loser, trade was a bust, he's not elite, horrible leader, Callahan is the better player, season's over.

The desire to be right about MSL in this thread and spin ******** based off of 10 games is hilarious. From my perspective, they're winning big games without getting a major contribution from one of their best forwards who is bound to come out of this rutt before long. That's a good thing. I'm more concerned about everyone else (Nash, Stepan) taking their foot off the gas rather than MSL not flooring it currently. If the TEAM keeps playing well MSL will find it.

However carry on with the overreactions and dramatic negativity.

Most of the people questioning MSL's performance so far (and rightfully so), would love to be proven wrong in due time.

What I find comical is the faction that stuck between either "MSL is awesome, I told you so!!!," which they would love to be doing right now, if they could. Or, "Oh please, you gotta give MSL more than X amount of games...."

The latter is just an excuse, and a poor one at that. And as long as you have that poor excuse in your back pocket, I guess you can advocate any trade being a success.

 

[Bleed Ranger Blue]

None of us were the ones that Callahan and draft picks were traded for. St. Louis was brought in there to score goals. Period. That is how he will be judged. How well he is playing without scoring goals is debateable.

BTW, he now has 2 goals in his last 23 games.

I think and hope he will snap out of it.

But it also wouldnt surprise me one bit if the Rangers acquired him at the exact moment he was becoming old.

 

[haveandare]

Ten games is all I need to see. He's a loser, trade was a bust, he's not elite, horrible leader, Callahan is the better player, season's over.

The desire to be right about MSL in this thread and spin ******** based off of 10 games is hilarious. From my perspective, they're winning big games without getting a major contribution from one of their best forwards who is bound to come out of this rutt before long. That's a good thing. I'm more concerned about everyone else (Nash, Stepan) taking their foot off the gas rather than MSL not flooring it currently. If the TEAM keeps playing well MSL will find it.

However carry on with the overreactions and dramatic negativity.

Well put. Ov. Giroux. This stuff happens to excellent players now and again. This really shouldn't be a shocker to the level that some posters are making it out to be. And I really don't think MSL has looked bad at all. He hasn't looked like a world-beater, which I thought he did the first few games, but I've noticed positive plays from him multiple times every game.

 

[True Blue]

And I really don't think MSL has looked bad at all. He hasn't looked like a world-beater, which I thought he did the first few games, but I've noticed positive plays from him multiple times every game.

He was acquired to score goals and push a bubble playoff team over the top. Has he been remotely successful?

 

[haveandare]

He was acquired to score goals and push a bubble playoff team over the top. Has he been remotely successful?

According to you. Different thread, same point. You can set whatever parameters for success you want, but it doesn't mean that players have to play within your expectations just because you took a second to write them out on HF.

I'd say that he was acquired to make the team better and/or replace Callahan who was halfway out the door. The team has been winning big games with him. He's been dangerous. I'd certainly say he's been remotely successful.

 

[Leonardo87]

Odd that Ryan Callahan hasn't needed a grace period to get acclimated.

And just for clarification if the Rangers were 3-6-1 since the trade, then it would be OK to be displeased with MSL?

Callahan was not being utilized the right way with AV, when he got back from injury he lost his spot on the PP over Pouliot, yeah over F'ing Pouliot. He has been on the same unit now as Steven Stamkos and thier PP has been excellent with Cally contributing big time to those goals.

Oh and Tampa is 5-1-3 since the Cally trade, and they played tougher teams than the Rangers in that time frame. Their PP has gone from 7 to 30, where as the Rangers have gone from 2 to 33 since the trade.

I hope he re-signs in Tampa, because Cooper knows what Cally can do, and has put him out there in every situation

 

[Leonardo87]

According to you. Different thread, same point. You can set whatever parameters for success you want, but it doesn't mean that players have to play within your expectations just because you took a second to write them out on HF.

I'd say that he was acquired to make the team better and/or replace Callahan who was halfway out the door. The team has been winning big games with him. He's been dangerous. I'd certainly say he's been remotely successful.

Rangers have been playing bubble teams since the trade, and the games that were not against bubble teams they lost. (San Jose, Toronto)

 

[Doctyl]

Callahan was not being utilized the right way with AV, when he got back from injury he lost his spot on the PP over Pouliot, yeah over F'ing Pouliot.

Cally was not playing well under AV at all. He wasnt setting the tempo to games, he wasnt scoring, and he didnt earn his PP time. Pouliot is just as strong in front of the net and has chemistry with Brassard and Zucc. Oh yea and Cally wanted an absurd contract. He wasnt helping here. Good thing they traded him.

He has been on the same unit now as Steven Stamkos and thier PP has been excellent with Cally contributing big time to those goals.

Any PP with Stamkos on it is going to be excellent. You cant honestly believe that Callahan is why Tampa's PP is good.

Oh and Tampa is 5-1-3 since the Cally trade, and they played tougher teams than the Rangers in that time frame. Their PP has gone from 7 to 30, where as the Rangers have gone from 2 to 33 since the trade.

Really? Buffalo, Boston, Phoenix, Florida, NJ, Vancouver, Toronto, Ottawa and Pittsburgh doesnt seem that much tougher than Toronto, Carolina, Detroit, Carolina, Minnesota, Winnipeg, San Jose, Ottawa, Cbus and NJ.

Buffalo and Florida are two of the worst teams in the league. Vancouver is a circus and torts is a clown. NJ, Toronto and Ottawa are washes. SJS is right up there with Boston and Pitt. Minnesota is not a bad team at all. CBJ is a desperate team who was playing excellent hockey before we beat them.

You're incredibly biased and trying to make it look like Callahan is accomplishing something huge in Tampa, while the Rangers are sucking without him. NYR is 6-3-1 without Cally, the sky is not falling. The rangers have the exact same number of points after the trade as the all mighty lightning while playing similar competition.

I hope he re-signs in Tampa, because Cooper knows what Cally can do, and has put him out there in every situation

So do I. Not because Cally is a great player or because the Bolts management are geniuses, but because I want a 2nd back.

 

[Leonardo87]

Cally was not playing well under AV at all. He wasnt setting the tempo to games, he wasnt scoring, and he didnt earn his PP time. Pouliot is just as strong in front of the net and has chemistry with Brassard and Zucc. Oh yea and Cally wanted an absurd contract. He wasnt helping here. Good thing they traded him.




Any PP with Stamkos on it is going to be excellent. You cant honestly believe that Callahan is why Tampa's PP is good.



Really? Buffalo, Boston, Phoenix, Florida, NJ, Vancouver, Toronto, Ottawa and Pittsburgh doesnt seem that much tougher than Toronto, Carolina, Detroit, Carolina, Minnesota, Winnipeg, San Jose, Ottawa, Cbus and NJ.

Buffalo and Florida are two of the worst teams in the league. Vancouver is a circus and torts is a clown. NJ, Toronto and Ottawa are washes. SJS is right up there with Boston and Pitt. Minnesota is not a bad team at all. CBJ is a desperate team who was playing excellent hockey before we beat them.

You're incredibly biased and trying to make it look like Callahan is accomplishing something huge in Tampa, while the Rangers are sucking without him. NYR is 6-3-1 without Cally, the sky is not falling. The rangers have the exact same number of points after the trade as the all mighty lightning while playing similar competition.



So do I. Not because Cally is a great player or because the Bolts management are geniuses, but because I want a 2nd back.

LOL ok whatever.

 

[aufheben]

People keep missing the point over and over and over again...

The concern isn't IF he'll start producing, it's WHEN.

When you trade for a player of that calibre with 1/4th of the season left, in a dense playoff race, it's a disappointment when he doesn't produce.

There's nothing subjective about 0 goals in 10 games. That's simply awful. Once again the stigma against criticism rears it's head on these boards. That's absurd, that people would WANT him to fail. We paid a lot for him, and want nothing more than for him to start producing, and justify what we paid.

That said, saying stuff like "Oh, he should retire" is frankly...stupid.

I thought he looked great last game. Some games I didn't even know he was playing.

 

[TheDirtyH]

People keep missing the point over and over and over again...

The concern isn't IF he'll start producing, it's WHEN.

When you trade for a player of that calibre with 1/4th of the season left, in a dense playoff race, it's a disappointment when he doesn't produce.

There's nothing subjective about 0 goals in 10 games. That's simply awful. Once again the stigma against criticism rears it's head on these boards. That's absurd, that people would WANT him to fail. We paid a lot for him, and want nothing more than for him to start producing, and justify what we paid.

That said, saying stuff like "Oh, he should retire" is frankly...stupid.

I thought he looked great last game. Some games I didn't even know he was playing.

I put my money on when they finally put he and Nash together. We've seen what St.Louis does with a goal scorer on his line, I just want to see it so bad!

 

[Doctyl]

I put my money on when they finally put he and Nash together. We've seen what St.Louis does with a goal scorer on his line, I just want to see it so bad!

they looked good together in the olympics

 

[TheDirtyH]

they looked good together in the olympics

I mean I guess I get the not wanting to move Nash to the left wing, but it's not like he's not used to playing there. It just seems so obvious to me. Kreider and Zuccarello had tremendous chemistry, and Nash and St.Louis both on paper compliment each other perfectly. St. Louis says he's used to having more room, I can't imagine a linemate that would give him more space...Oh well, I'm sure it will never happen.

 

[GAGLine]

MSL is on the Rangers. I don't think he has played great. I don't think he has played up to par. I dont believe I ever said anything like that. I'm simply saying give him a little bit more time before people start calling the trade a bust.

The trade was a bust the moment it was made. You don't trade a player like Callahan and 1st and 2nd round picks for a player who is soon to be 39, no matter how good that player is, unless you believe said player is the final piece needed to win the cup. And even then, it's a huge gamble.

This team is nowhere near winning a cup. We are a bubble playoff team, not cup contenders. MSL doesn't change that regardless of how he is producing. He could have 15 points right now and I'd still be pissed about the trade. There is only one way that this trade can be justified, and that's by winning a cup while MSL is here.