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First Impressions of St. Louis

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aufheben said:
People keep missing the point over and over and over again...

The concern isn't IF he'll start producing, it's WHEN.

When you trade for a player of that calibre with 1/4th of the season left, in a dense playoff race, it's a disappointment when he doesn't produce.

There's nothing subjective about 0 goals in 10 games. That's simply awful. Once again the stigma against criticism rears it's head on these boards. That's absurd, that people would WANT him to fail. We paid a lot for him, and want nothing more than for him to start producing, and justify what we paid.

That said, saying stuff like "Oh, he should retire" is frankly...stupid.

I thought he looked great last game. Some games I didn't even know he was playing.
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Are we reading the same boards? Criticism is nearly 100% of this board's contents.

Remember when Hank sucked and was already an albatross? When Step sucked and needed to be traded? Both this year and last year? Kreider was a bust. Girardi was a liability...who else?

I'm all for criticism, but I'm sick of reading knee-jerk criticism which is almost everything posted here.

It's been 10 games. 10. Hank was in a rut for more than that. Girardi was in a rut for more than that. Callahan was in a rut for more than that. That's just on this team - opening up to the entire league, 10 games of subpar performance is really not that unusual.
 
GAGLine said:
The trade was a bust the moment it was made. You don't trade a player like Callahan and 1st and 2nd round picks for a player who is soon to be 39, no matter how good that player is, unless you believe said player is the final piece needed to win the cup. And even then, it's a huge gamble.

This team is nowhere near winning a cup. We are a bubble playoff team, not cup contenders. MSL doesn't change that regardless of how he is producing. He could have 15 points right now and I'd still be pissed about the trade. There is only one way that this trade can be justified, and that's by winning a cup while MSL is here.
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You need a guy like Callahan and a guy like St Louis, imo to compete for a cup. Not just one of these guys. A lot of Rangers fans seem to miss the concept of two-way hockey. If you watched the Tampa game against Pittsburgh, Cally blocked an open net shot, and saved a goal. Helped them to get a point in that game. Also later created a defensive turnover which later led to a goal, Cally missed an assist on that goal since he was the 4th player to touch the puck.
 
haveandare said:
I'd say that he was acquired to make the team better and/or replace Callahan who was halfway out the door. The team has been winning big games with him. He's been dangerous. I'd certainly say he's been remotely successful.
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Has he made the team better? He is 38 and next year 39. He is not here to be Callahan's replacement.

When it comes to a player who is that old and you only have 1.25 seasons with him, what parameter would you endeavor to use to define success?
 
haveandare said:
Are we reading the same boards? Criticism is nearly 100% of this board's contents.

Remember when Hank sucked and was already an albatross? When Step sucked and needed to be traded? Both this year and last year? Kreider was a bust. Girardi was a liability...who else?

I'm all for criticism, but I'm sick of reading knee-jerk criticism which is almost everything posted here.

It's been 10 games. 10. Hank was in a rut for more than that. Girardi was in a rut for more than that. Callahan was in a rut for more than that. That's just on this team - opening up to the entire league, 10 games of subpar performance is really not that unusual.
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10 games. 10. Or, about 10% of how much is left on his contract.

This trade, the way in which it was made (throwing in draft picks, too), offers little to no leeway in terms of being patient. In fact, the entire premise of the trade is zero patience whatsoever.
 
Bleed Ranger Blue said:
10 games. 10. Or, about 10% of how much is left on his contract.

This trade, the way in which it was made (throwing in draft picks, too), offers little to no leeway in terms of being patient. In fact, the entire premise of the trade is zero patience whatsoever.
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Yeah, I don't know how many other ways I can explain this.
 
aufheben said:
Yeah, I don't know how many other ways I can explain this.
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I agree. It is not like MSL was brought in here for future growth. His sole purpose for being a Ranger is essentially instant gratification. NOT what kind of player he is going to grow into being and what he will be in another 5 years. He was brought in to make a difference. He was brought in for NOW. And he has not made a difference and he has not contributed to the NOW.
 
True Blue said:
I agree. It is not like MSL was brought in here for future growth. His sole purpose for being a Ranger is essentially instant gratification. NOT what kind of player he is going to grow into being and what he will be in another 5 years. He was brought in to make a difference. He was brought in for NOW. And he has not made a difference and he has not contributed to the NOW.
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We traded a part of our future for a 38-year old superstar with a year left on his contact, and 20~ games left in the regular season, in the thick of a playoff race. We supposed to be happy about this? Apathetic?

Whatever.
 
True Blue said:
Has he made the team better? He is 38 and next year 39. He is not here to be Callahan's replacement.

When it comes to a player who is that old and you only have 1.25 seasons with him, what parameter would you endeavor to use to define success?
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He's replacing him right now and he'll be replacing him next year, and it's not impossible that he'll be playing on this team after that. Or, he'll play for this year and next year, then he'll retire and a RW prospect will be able to come up without being rushed. God forbid.

I wouldn't use 10 games for any parameter. The team has been winning. They went from a maybe for the playoffs to a very strong possibility. Was making the playoffs not the first step of this being a "success?"

Bleed Ranger Blue said:
10 games. 10. Or, about 10% of how much is left on his contract.

This trade, the way in which it was made (throwing in draft picks, too), offers little to no leeway in terms of being patient. In fact, the entire premise of the trade is zero patience whatsoever.
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I'm just saying that 10 games is 10 games, it doesn't matter who the player is or how they were acquired - that's easily in the range of games that can be an apparition or a blip on an otherwise stellar season/career. If you can't see past 10 games for a guy who will be here for 100, and maybe more, that's certainly your right, but I don't see how you're blaming a trade for your own lack of patience.

aufheben said:
We traded a part of our future for a 38-year old superstar with a year left on his contact, and 20~ games left in the regular season, in the thick of a playoff race. We supposed to be happy about this? Apathetic?
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I'd say you could be patient about it. You're not "supposed" to be anything.

Notice how on the board that you claim there's a stigma against criticism everyone is criticizing and the one person who isn't being hypercritical is being quoted and questioned. Where exactly is this stigma again?
 
aufheben said:
We traded a part of our future for a 38-year old superstar with a year left on his contact, and 20~ games left in the regular season, in the thick of a playoff race. We supposed to be happy about this? Apathetic?

Whatever.
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You aren't a real fan if you happen to be disappointed by this!!!

In all seriousness though, I understand the "adjustment period" to some extent, but it's tough to swallow seeing that other players traded at the deadline such as Callahan, Hemsky, etc. have been able to adapt fairly quickly to their new teams. And it's not like MSL was blindsided by the trade, quite the opposite, so I assume he was mentally prepared to deal with the challenges of coming to a new team.
 
"I'm just saying that 10 games is 10 games, it doesn't matter who the player is or how they were acquired"

I don't have the same patience for an old vet who just won the Art Ross trophy and was brought in at the trade deadline as I would for a prospect acquired in the the offseason.

This trade is like going to an Audi dealer, buying an expensive car, and it stalls when you go to pull out of the dealership. Yeah, they'll fix it eventually, but **** that, you just spent a fortune on it. The fact that someone from the dealership or a friend was able to drive you home anyway doesn't justify it.
 
haveandare said:
I'm just saying that 10 games is 10 games, it doesn't matter who the player is or how they were acquired - that's easily in the range of games that can be an apparition or a blip on an otherwise stellar season/career. If you can't see past 10 games for a guy who will be here for 100, and maybe more, that's certainly your right, but I don't see how you're blaming a trade for your own lack of patience.
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And I don't see how you (and others) can be so gung ho about making a short-sighted trade like this one, and then offer ****** excuses for MSL's poor play.

What is a suitable time to wait for MSL to score a goal?
 
haveandare said:
He's replacing him right now and he'll be replacing him next year, and it's not impossible that he'll be playing on this team after that. Or, he'll play for this year and next year, then he'll retire and a RW prospect will be able to come up without being rushed. God forbid.
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That's not what he meant and you know that. He was supposed to be an upgrade to Callahan (otherwise, why did the Rangers add picks?).

haveandare said:
They went from a maybe for the playoffs to a very strong possibility. Was making the playoffs not the first step of this being a "success?"
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1) They're maybe a playoff team.

2) The fact that they are now a "strong possibility" is because we're in the third week of March.

haveandare said:
I'm just saying that 10 games is 10 games, it doesn't matter who the player is
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It certainly matters who the player is. The Rangers didn't acquire a journeyman player or even one who has been an inconsistent performer. He's been an elite player.
 
Bleed Ranger Blue said:
And I don't see how you (and others) can be so gung ho about making a short-sighted trade like this one, and then offer ****** excuses for MSL's poor play.

What is a suitable time to wait for MSL to score a goal?
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Somewhere between now and the last game of the season.

I mean, he has to adjust for ****s sakes. What do you expect? For him to play like an art ross winner or something!?

If he sucks for the rest of the season, don't fret. He has all of next season/playoffs to bring us the cup.
 
MSL is cold right now. He's bound to explode eventually and I really hope that eventually is the playoffs. If he leads us to a cup and or wins a conn smythe, all will be forgiven.
 
Yeah, I'm getting frustrated too. I usually don't like the negativity, but I've been severely disappointed with MSL. I don't see the plays he's making that others are seeing. I'm seeing a player who is completely unnoticeable on the ice.

I mean, this isn't a guy who supposedly relies on his linemates for points. This is a guy who creates scoring opportunities. He creates points. He's not doing it.

Okay, these 10 games are over, we survived them with a 6-3-1 record. I'm ecstatic about that. But the adjustment is over. He's had 10 games and tons of practice time. He needs to line up, and put the puck in the net, and deliver in a big way. It's time. The adjustment excuse has run out of time, in my opinion.
 
i say give it time let him find his groove and see how he performs in the playoffs pending they make it. also, there are going to be a lot of changes next year with this team between potential buy-outs and free agency losses and or gains so his veteran presence will be absolutely necessary and most likely forgotten about by the HFNYR fan base which is made up of some of the biggest debbie downers and haters I've ever came in contact with (especially since the entire team isn't clones of ryan callahan and they're even more bitter he's gone now)

anyway, i like that there is some new blood. i just wish he would find his groove. as it is with any player, you can see how bad he wants to contribute and how bad he wants the monkey of his 1st NYR goal off his back. I've never seen someone try so hard for an empty netter than the other night vs the devils. that being said, give it time. just like with nash. he finally found his groove and has been the best player in this recent stretch of games.

lastly, theres still an adjustment time with AV. while all the players are still getting used to the culture shock, I'm sure st. louis isn't much different. any person coming from a place they spend a long time in is going to have a tough time adjusting. but id rather he do it now and be ready for the playoffs and have next year as a full year to really show us what he has. unfortunately, i guess I'm too patient and the rangers are in a more of a win now mode even though they aren't built for it
 
I think my favorite hypocritical point so far was:

Before trade:
"MSL is the league leader in points the last 5 seasons. He'll never fail here!"

After trade:
"Callahan has Stamkos on the Tampa powerplay now... OF COURSE hes doing well!"
 
Bleed Ranger Blue said:
I think my favorite hypocritical point so far was:

Before trade:
"MSL is the league leader in points the last 5 seasons. He'll never fail here!"

After trade:
"Callahan has Stamkos on the Tampa powerplay now... OF COURSE hes doing well!"
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That's hilarious!

We can have a 1st line of Landeskog, Crosby and St. Louis and it would still not meet some expectations. People expect a guy to come into NY, be part of a new team and score 50 goals without adjusting to the system, players etc.

People need to be more realistic. This is not NHL14
 
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