Speculation: Firesale?

[Night Shift]

I'm more in the "I'm not sure yet" rather than a definitive yes or no.

 

[cygnus47]

If we’re not firing Sully we may as well blow it up cause we’re not going anywhere.

 

[Night Shift]

Sell everyone but Ewad. Why? Because he is wascally, has many bag of tricks in his pants pockets and he can play Solo 1 vs 5 night in night out.82-0

 

[Pens1566]

We've won five of 15 games, like it or not we're at the beginning of such an era. Might as well embrace it.

It's not even just a recent thing, we've been trending downward for years. We've won something like 3 of our last 20 playoff games. That's with all kinds of alterations to the roster (why I think Sully should go, and probably should have at least 2 yrs ago).

 

[FunkySeeFunkyDo]

Are we a contender? Are we a playoff team? I’m stupid enough to say yes to both. If it becomes evident that I’m wrong, then I’m fine with selling Rust, Carter and Dumo. No on Sid, Geno, Letang, Jake, Kap, Marino. I don’t think there’s much reason to trade MP, Teddy or McGuin. Hey, while I’m in my little fantasy world, maybe it will be ok for us to suck this year because we will get something for Carter and Rust as opposed to them walking for nothing next season.

 

[BillyOcean]

I'm willing to bet there's not a whole lot of Penguins fans you'll be able to convince that tanking doesn't work. There are two huge examples of it working. If this team isn't ready for it this year, UFAs should be the starting point. Also, it's not an unheard of thing that a team trades a player only for them to re-sign with the club the next season.

The Penguins still have very talented players, but the mix isn't great. The asset distribution is completely out of whack. The player mix is terrible. The team's identity is dipping into about 17 different subgenres. A new coach with a new focus with a different roster seems like the only solution unless everyone can get healthy and Hextall can perform 2-3 more Jeff Carter type moves. That might get the team out of the first round at most.

I'm tired of guys like Guentzel and Rust occupying the top line. I'm tired of Kapanen masquerading as a top 6 forward. I love Malkin, but at some point you need the guy making 10% of the team's salary on the ice every once in awhile. The next time Sid has a great game will be the first in a long time. He hasn't been the same player since the core muscle surgery. He'll probably coast until the Olympics and look like the best player in the world again. Then we'll get a whole lot more coasting.

 

[Pens1566]

Yeah, you could improve a great deal just by bringing in a coach that will use players to their strengths, and not have someone that tries to shoehorn every player into their "system". The former is a coach capable of results with a larger group of players, the latter requires them to be right with their system, and catch lightning in a bottle ...

 

[Big Friggin Dummy]

It's not even "tanking" with regard to having a generational talent fall into your lap again like Sid, Geno, or Lemieux. It's about accepting that things need to be shifted to an eye on the future, as the "now" has been shit for a handful of years and time's run out on the era.

You don't have to land the next McDavid in order to work toward building a contender. It's true not all draft picks, even those in the top of the 1st round, tend to work out. But I mean, odds are way better that you end up with a significant, impact NHLer if you're picking in the top-5 for a few years as opposed to like 24th or whatever the "thanks for making the playoffs, now get the f*** outta here" 1st round exits end up with.

-edit- As for Sid at the Olympics; it's a whole lot easier to look good when you're surrounded by elite talent and the game is a more free flowing style as opposed to this garbage league. Not being asked to play 25 minutes a night with slugs like Jake and Rust on your line probably does wonders for anybody, and to go from those two to Marchand-Bergeron or MacKinnon? World of difference, to say the least.

 

[Ryder71]

We’ve lost three in a row with a full roster just coming off covid and major injuries throughout the lineup. Pump the breaks.
If we kept this EXACT same line up healthy next year I’d still be optimistic of the playoffs. We aren’t that bad. Sometimes shit just doesn’t go our way. Why blow it up early because we’re frustrated.

I'm not frustrated in the least, I just have a good understanding that the on ice product is stale. I'm fine with a rebuild. If you think there's some glimmer of hope here you're mistaken.

 

[Ryder71]

It's not even just a recent thing, we've been trending downward for years. We've won something like 3 of our last 20 playoff games. That's with all kinds of alterations to the roster (why I think Sully should go, and probably should have at least 2 yrs ago).

I totally agree. Time for the rebuild.

 

[KIRK]

I'm more in the "I'm not sure yet" rather than a definitive yes or no.

I still think the most immediate and fascinating question is what you do with the impending UFA's if there's no movement on extensions come January.

Personally, I think you move any one of them regardless. That said, I actually could see it happening if the Pens are on the outside looking in come early January. On the bubble? I could still see the value in moving Rust at 50% given what you could get. Guessing there's a chance even then on Letang. Malkin? If the Pens are IN come early January, I'm not sure he'd waive. That said, you've got to think it's the most pressing organizational personnel question for the over the next 2-3 months.

EDIT: Yes, I know there are fascinating questions regarding some guys under contract after this year, but how Hextall proceeds with the impending UFA's will make a big difference IMHO in how successfully Sid's next 3 seasons play out.

 

[Sidney the Kidney]

-edit- As for Sid at the Olympics; it's a whole lot easier to look good when you're surrounded by elite talent and the game is a more free flowing style as opposed to this garbage league. Not being asked to play 25 minutes a night with slugs like Jake and Rust on your line probably does wonders for anybody, and to go from those two to Marchand-Bergeron or MacKinnon? World of difference, to say the least.

Being flanked by Bergeron and Marchand allows Sid to basically cruise around and let them do all the work (though he won't do that). Being flanked by Rust and Guentzel means Sid has to basically do everything Bergeron and Marchand do for a line.

 

[Gurglesons]

I still think the most immediate and fascinating question is what you do with the impending UFA's if there's no movement on extensions come January.

Personally, I think you move any one of them regardless. That said, I actually could see it happening if the Pens are on the outside looking in come early January. On the bubble? I could still see the value in moving Rust at 50% given what you could get. Guessing there's a chance even then on Letang. Malkin? If the Pens are IN come early January, I'm not sure he'd waive. That said, you've got to think it's the most pressing organizational personnel question for the over the next 2-3 months.

EDIT: Yes, I know there are fascinating questions regarding some guys under contract after this year, but how Hextall proceeds with the impending UFA's will make a big difference IMHO in how successfully Sid's next 3 seasons play out.

Yeah it’s kind of fun if we continue to be awful.

 

[Gurglesons]

Being flanked by Bergeron and Marchand allows Sid to basically cruise around and let them do all the work (though he won't do that). Being flanked by Rust and Guentzel means Sid has to basically do everything Bergeron and Marchand do for a line.

I’m not going to judge Sid by the last few games, but going back to last year I don’t think the issue has been Sid doing everything on that line. It’s straight up Sid.

His decision making is just atrocious.

 

[KIRK]

Yeah it’s kind of fun if we continue to be awful.

Well, not the being awful part, but . . .

 

[Gurglesons]

Well, not the being awful part, but . . .

If someone rewinds the clock and tells me what we did over the last 15 years in 2005, I’m stoked.

Sucks to see Malkin and Letang get moved if they do, but we got them a lot longer than most teams get their stars.

 

[Sidney the Kidney]

I’m not going to judge Sid by the last few games, but going back to last year I don’t think the issue has been Sid doing everything on that line. It’s straight up Sid.

His decision making is just atrocious.

Sort of a chicken or the egg situation, in terms of what's leading to that performance. Is he forcing things because he knows he's expected to do all the work for that line? Is he incapable of being the only guy doing all the work and thus looks even worse because he's getting no help?

I think if it's a "Sid decline" thing, we'll see the same thing at the Olympics where he's holding his line back. But if he sort of looks like vintage Sid, then maybe it's time we stop putting him on lines where he has to do everything.

 

[Gurglesons]

Sort of a chicken or the egg situation, in terms of what's leading to that performance. Is he forcing things because he knows he's expected to do all the work for that line? Is he incapable of being the only guy doing all the work and thus looks even worse because he's getting no help?

I think if it's a "Sid decline" thing, we'll see the same thing at the Olympics where he's holding his line back. But if he sort of looks like vintage Sid, then maybe it's time we stop putting him on lines where he has to do everything.

This is my big issue with Sullivan’s coaching and Sid.

 

[KIRK]

If someone rewinds the clock and tells me what we did over the last 15 years in 2005, I’m stoked.

Sucks to see Malkin and Letang get moved if they do, but we got them a lot longer than most teams get their stars.

3 cups
Lots of entertaining hockey
Never missed the playoffs with those two (or Malkin, since Letang only played 10 games in 2006-2007)

Yeah, there's some 'maybe there could've been more' thinking that inevitably pops up, but for those of us who endured things from the Jagr trade through the X-generation with smiles on our faces, these last 15 years have been a hell of a reward.

Sucks, but you move on at the deadline regardless from Letang (and Rust). You ask Malkin if he'll waive regardless (although again I think he might decline if the Pens are on the bubble or barely in come mid January . . . which is something I doubt, but . . .).

 

[Gurglesons]

3 cups
Lots of entertaining hockey
Never missed the playoffs with those two (or Malkin, since Letang only played 10 games in 2006-2007)

Yeah, there's some 'maybe there could've been more' thinking that inevitably pops up, but for those of us who endured things from the Jagr trade through the X-generation with smiles on our faces, these last 15 years have been a hell of a reward.

Sucks, but you move on at the deadline regardless from Letang (and Rust). You ask Malkin if he'll waive regardless (although again I think he might decline if the Pens are on the bubble or barely in come mid January . . . which is something I doubt, but . . .).

I think it’d be cool to see Letang and Malkin go to other franchises while we implode simply so they could showcase how damn good they are.

 

[Big Friggin Dummy]

Sid's either on a line where he has to, as Madden loves to put it between shovelfuls of biscuits and gravy, "be the best 200ft player on earth", or he's on a line with guys approaching what Shero used to surround Sid/Geno with--i.e. garbage. This time, they're ~35 and not 25.

We don't really have the depth to surround both top centers with legit talent. Hell, we don't have the depth to surround one of them with legit talent. Somebody's gonna get scraps, and we all know it won't be Sid, since GCR must live on--for the good of humanity.

 

[KIRK]

I think it’d be cool to see Letang and Malkin go to other franchises while we implode simply so they could showcase how damn good they are.

We've discussed Letang. At 50%, he's a game changer especially in Florida, Toronto, and Edmonton.

Malkin? Rangers: He could center Panarin-Kakko in place of Strome. Or, if they wanted some wild depth or there's no click with Panarin, have Malkin center Lafrerniere-Goodrow. Bruins? 2nd center between Hall and Foligno. Hell, they have the space to get Malkin AND Rust at 50%. Imagine Hall-Malkin-Rust as their 2nd line, then they have Coyle-Foligno as 2/3 of a 3rd line. The Islander have the money and it would be fascinating to see how Trotz would use him, but where does he fit and is center their big need? The Panthers lack the cap space. And, as I keep telling you, if Billy G could make the pitch, you've got to think there might be some appeal to centering Kaprizov-Zuccarello (one of the most exciting young Russian players and Malkin's old Magnitogorsk winger during the last lockout).

 

[Sidney the Kidney]

Sid's either on a line where he has to, as Madden loves to put it between shovelfuls of biscuits and gravy, "be the best 200ft player on earth", or he's on a line with guys approaching what Shero used to surround Sid/Geno with--i.e. garbage. This time, they're ~35 and not 25.

We don't really have the depth to surround both top centers with legit talent. Hell, we don't have the depth to surround one of them with legit talent. Somebody's gonna get scraps, and we all know it won't be Sid, since GCR must live on--for the good of humanity.

Pens should take a page out of Edmonton's book and just play Sid and Geno together. Put a guy like McGinn on the other wing to be defensively responsible and do the forechecking, then fill out the rest of the roster with what's left.

 

[Gurglesons]

Pens should take a page out of Edmonton's book and just play Sid and Geno together. Put a guy like McGinn on the other wing to be defensively responsible and do the forechecking, then fill out the rest of the roster with what's left.

Or just try anyone but Guentzel and Rust there. Maybe the LW we acquired that put up a 30 and 30 pace with him and 50 pt EVS pace.

 

[Big Friggin Dummy]

We've discussed Letang. At 50%, he's a game changer especially in Florida, Toronto, and Edmonton.

Malkin? Rangers: He could center Panarin-Kakko in place of Strome. Or, if they wanted some wild depth or there's no click with Panarin, have Malkin center Lafrerniere-Goodrow. Bruins? 2nd center between Hall and Foligno. Hell, they have the space to get Malkin AND Rust at 50%. Imagine Hall-Malkin-Rust as their 2nd line, then they have Coyle-Foligno as 2/3 of a 3rd line. The Islander have the money and it would be fascinating to see how Trotz would use him, but where does he fit and is center their big need? The Panthers lack the cap space. And, as I keep telling you, if Billy G could make the pitch, you've got to think there might be some appeal to centering Kaprizov-Zuccarello (one of the most exciting young Russian players and Malkin's old Magnitogorsk winger during the last lockout).

There's plenty of creative options if people (not you, in general) would look beyond their yinzer comfort zone of "no, the sacred ones must never leave, mummify them and put them in jeweled display cases next to the Primanti Bros."

I still stand by the thought that Letang at 50% brings just about every single team to line up and put in offers. Some may suck, some teams may be on his no-trade list, but someone out there is 100% going to be willing to shell out a big return for a guy who is still a #1 d-man on the vast majority of teams in the NHL, and at a cap hit of $3.65 million. It's just a matter of the FO having the balls to rip that band-aid off. Of course this is all assuming we're more or less around where we're at now in mid-to-late January and there's no significant progress toward a new deal for Letang--or the progress indicates he wants something like $9 million AAV for 4 years.