#FIRECHIA

[Soundwave]

He did not overpay for Sekera and Hall is not a franchise player.

Amazing how New Jersey could have the same number of playoff appearances as the Oilers do with McDavid with Taylor Hall as their best player when this season is done.

Nothing wrong or unusual about this picture at all. Nope. Everything is fine and dandy in Edmonton.

 

[hjghkabsdkc]

Was Rigshad not the one complied about Yakupov and everyone went after him? Of corse the Oilers were going to lose the deal but we needed Larson.

I don't think so. By all accounts it sounds like the Oilers were never that big of fans of Yak anyways.

I disagree. I don't believe the Oilers needed a defensive RH defenceman badly enough they needed to trade Taylor Hall straight across for him.

 

[harpoon]

Of corse (sic) the Oilers were going to lose the deal

This is the mindset I just don't understand.
So many people content to say that 'we were bound to lose the deal no matter what'.

Wtf? We are talking about people who are paid very large sums of money to win deals. Yes I understand you can't win them all, but honestly I have never seen a fan base so meekly accepting of the repeated visits to the cleaners.

 

[hjghkabsdkc]

This is the mindset I just don't understand.
So many people content to say that 'we were bound to lose the deal no matter what'.
Wtf? We are talking about people who are paid very large sums of money to win deals..
Yes I understand you can't win them all, but honestly I have never seen a fan base so meekly accepting of the repeated visits to the cleaners.

It's kind of amusing the talk of loser culture re: Hall, Eberle and the past, when so many fans here are sooo supportive of Chiarelli losing deal after deal. Maybe there's a different losing culture that needs purging here, and it's not the players.

 

[Soundwave]

It's kind of amusing the talk of loser culture re: Hall, Eberle and the past, when so many fans here are sooo supportive of Chiarelli losing deal after deal. Maybe there's a different losing culture that needs purging here, and it's not the players.

Exactly. There is a loser culture here. And it resides in incompetent management groups allowed to continue to run the team year after year after year with no accountability while other franchises make the playoffs again and again with less talent.

 

[Kagomeboy]

I don't think so. By all accounts it sounds like the Oilers were never that big of fans of Yak anyways.

I disagree. I don't believe the Oilers needed a defensive RH defenceman badly enough they needed to trade Taylor Hall straight across for him.

The Oilers need defencemen badly,they were awful on defence.before larsson we had Mark Fayne and Nikitan on the top line.

 

[belair]

This is the mindset I just don't understand.
So many people content to say that 'we were bound to lose the deal no matter what'.

Wtf? We are talking about people who are paid very large sums of money to win deals. Yes I understand you can't win them all, but honestly I have never seen a fan base so meekly accepting of the repeated visits to the cleaners.

No, we are talking about individuals who are paid to win championships. And that is done by building a competitive roster. When you trade marquee players, you often resign yourself to losing the deal, especially when the other team is taking on more salary. What you gain though, is a return that wouldn't have been available otherwise.

 

[hjghkabsdkc]

The Oilers need defencemen badly,they were awful on defence.before larsson we had Mark Fayne and Nikitan on the top line.

I don't disagree they needed help on defense, but get creative then. Don't sacrifice one of your best players for a shut down defenseman. He had already added Sekera, why couldn't he had done something similar on the right side?

He just can't operate without losing value. It's how he manages.

 

[Kagomeboy]

No, we are talking about individuals who are paid to win championships. And that is done by building a competitive roster. When you trade marquee players, you often resign yourself to losing the deal, especially when the other team is taking on more salary. What you gain though, is a return that wouldn't have been available otherwise.

Cant have said it better.

 

[Soundwave]

No, we are talking about individuals who are paid to win championships. And that is done by building a competitive roster. When you trade marquee players, you resign yourself to losing the deal, especially when the other team is taking on salary. What you gain though, is a return that wouldn't have been available otherwise.

This strategy is garbage and I'm sorry but many GMs do just fine without adhering to this nonsense of "it's OK to lose every big trade". That line of logic was always going to come back and bite this team in the ass.

Boston is also up shit creek, if they had kept Seguin they'd be among the elite teams in the East with him and Pasta. Instead they are a mediocre team that might at best eek into an 8th seed.

Oilers right now are dreaming of even sniffing a 8th seed.

This strategy is disastrous, the fact that Chiarelli has made it his bread and butter philosophy as a manager is ridiculous.

 

[Kagomeboy]

I don't disagree they needed help on defense, but get creative then. Don't sacrifice one of your best players for a shut down defenseman. He had already added Sekera, why couldn't he had done something similar on the right side?

He just can't operate without losing value. It's how he manages.

You mean our third best player since now it Mcdavds team,also how can he get creative when there was no other good defencemen who played in the east and had a NO NTC.

 

[Mr Positive]

No, we are talking about individuals who are paid to win championships. And that is done by building a competitive roster. When you trade marquee players, you often resign yourself to losing the deal, especially when the other team is taking on more salary. What you gain though, is a return that wouldn't have been available otherwise.

that's an important point. Just to support it, just look at the GMs who win cups? How many deals do they win? The answer is, very few. Chicago gave up Panarin, Leddy, and many others. LA bleeds picks and has tons of wasted assets. Keeping their cores together is expensive. Pittsburgh has had to give up players too

I do think that despite our issues this season, Chia has generally pointed the team in the right direction for the long term. The Eberle trade is a prime example. If we could keep him, we would.

 

[hjghkabsdkc]

If your argument is he couldn't do anything other than trading Hall for Adam Larsson, then wow. What general manager runs a team like this? Chicago, LA, and Pittsburgh already won cups before having to deal player for salary reasons.

Chia pre-emptively moves Eberle and gets back Ryan Strome? Thank god we moved him a year early, wouldn't have gotten a non-qualifying offer player otherwise!

 

[Soundwave]

that's an important point. Just to support it, just look at the GMs who win cups? How many deals do they win? The answer is, very few. Chicago gave up Panarin, Leddy, and many others. LA bleeds picks and has tons of wasted assets. Keeping their cores together is expensive. Pittsburgh has had to give up players too

I do think that despite our issues this season, Chia has generally pointed the team in the right direction for the long term. The Eberle trade is a prime example. If we could keep him, we would.

Pittsburgh took Toronto to the cleaners by getting Kessel for basically nothing.

That trade has gifted them two consecutive Stanley Cups. They also grabbed Justin Schultz who's turned into a 50 point right shot D for them for peanuts from us.

Yes. Asset management matters.

LA's entire Cup team was built on ripping off Columbus and Philly for Richards and Carter. They were a middling team before that.

 

[Senor Catface]

Boston is also up **** creek, if they had kept Seguin they'd be among the elite teams in the East with him and Pasta. Instead they are a mediocre team that might at best eek into an 8th seed.

Dallas has missed the playoffs 3 out of the 5 years Seguin has been there.

They currently sit in 8th place in the conference, you know, like a team that would be "a mediocre team that might at best eek into an 8th seed."

If in your mind Seguin leaving was such a catalyst to the failure of Boston, shouldn't he be the catalyst to Dallas having success?

 

[Soundwave]

Dallas has missed the playoffs 3 out of the last 5 years.

They currently sit in 8th place in the conference, you know, like a team that would be "a mediocre team that might at best eek into an 8th seed."

If in your mind Seguin leaving was such a catalyst to the failure of Boston, shouldn't he be the catalyst to Dallas having success?

Boston has a better rounded team than Dallas, Seguin + Pasta would be a terrific duo, they threw that away for what? 3 years of a declining Loui Eriksson? Good job Chiarelli.

This is such a wonderful strategy for building a team that Chiarelli has that no other GM seems to use it. Gee. I wonder why.

 

[Senor Catface]

Boston has a better rounded team than Dallas, Seguin + Pasta would be a terrific duo, they threw that away for what? 3 years of a declining Loui Eriksson? Good job Chiarelli.

So you didn't really answer the question at all.

 

[Soundwave]

So you didn't really answer the question at all.

Boston is flirting with a 8th seed ... you don't think they could be a solid comfortable 4/5/6 seed if they hadn't thrown away Seguin for nothing? They have nothing to show for that trade, that is gross what he did to the franchise. Completely irresponsible.

 

[hjghkabsdkc]

Dallas has missed the playoffs 3 out of the 5 years Seguin has been there.

They currently sit in 8th place in the conference, you know, like a team that would be "a mediocre team that might at best eek into an 8th seed."

If in your mind Seguin leaving was such a catalyst to the failure of Boston, shouldn't he be the catalyst to Dallas having success?

I honestly don't get posts like this. This is just nonsense.

Tyler Seguin is a perennial 70+ point center. That's an incredible player, one of the best in the league. Dallas has had trouble fielding a competent defense and goaltending, but what does that have to do with Seguin? Neither were included in the Seguin deal.

Dallas' mediocrity doesn't make it a win for Chiarelli. He got hosed and should be ridiculed for it. Also, the Oilers are in the bottom five, guess it's time for Chia to come to roost by that same logic?

 

[harpoon]

No, we are talking about individuals who are paid to win championships. And that is done by building a competitive roster.

Fair enough. Your point is taken. It is kind of the chicken/egg thing though. Can't win deals = can't build competitive roster = can't win championships. I feel like its pretty hard to 'build a competitive roster' as you say when you keep giving away value in deals.

However, I admit there are various ways to look at 'competitive'. One point I liked about @Night Witch post was the bit about how Chiarelli has turned a weakling roster into into one of the toughest lineups in the NHL. I feel like this is a huge plus that some of the folks who don't like Chiarelli aren't acknowledging.

When you trade marquee players, you often resign yourself to losing the deal, especially when the other team is taking on more salary.

Then you ask for a draft pick or a prospect to be added to the deal.
One simply cannot expect to have long term success in the NHL by 'resigning' oneself to losing deals for 'marquee players'. We sucked a whole season for the 'right' to draft some of those marquee players. That's a real cost.

What you gain though, is a return that wouldn't have been available otherwise.

Then you wait or look elsewhere. Or make smarter free agent signings.
Look I accept losing some deals is going to happen. When it starts to look like a pattern I think its fair for fans to become alarmed. I think this post says it quite well. And this doesn't even touch the Boston moves like Seguin, Boychuck and Versteeg.

This is Chia's MO. Lose/give up value on trades/signings to fill/try to fill a need/what he wants. He did it with the Reinhart trade, then the Hall trade, then the Lucic signing, then the Russell extension, then the Eberle trade.

 

[5 Mins 4 Ftg]

much of what your post did is simply offuscate that halfway into his tenure the team is back to where he started from. Except now with far less tradeable assets, far less wingers (players like Hall and Eberle are certainly not easily obtained, you know, except for dealing with guys like Chia in which case he'll fire sale anything that came before him.

If one is actually looking at Chia's body of work to this point theres been more harm than profit to the longterm future of this club.

You say Chia learned something in Boston about his trading but I fail to see what that is. He sold assets on sale in Boston and he's doing tht here.

The devils and Islanders, two teams that were lost in space, now laughing all the way to the bank, and playoffs.

Not only is Chia trading talent, he's trading exciting players that people pay to see. Eberle is among the favorites already in NYI. Hall is absolutely the favorite player in Jersey. So people buying tickets to see improved clubs, and the new faces, and in markets that really needed something positive.

But hey, we got Strome, Jokinen, Camm, Malone, Auvitu, Walker. That's what we get.

That's lumps of coal under the Xmas tree, that's all that is.

You neglect a lot of players he has brought in as well as draft picks but that’s ok, see it through whatever lens you want to and I will see it through the lens I want to.

 

[Kagomeboy]

I honestly don't get posts like this. This is just nonsense.

Tyler Seguin is a perennial 70+ point center. That's an incredible player, one of the best in the league. Dallas has had trouble fielding a competent defense and goaltending, but what does that have to do with Seguin? Neither were included in the Seguin deal.

Dallas' mediocrity doesn't make it a win for Chiarelli. He got hosed and should be ridiculed for it. Also, the Oilers are in the bottom five, guess it's time for Chia to come to roost by that same logic?

If he was such a great player why is the team floundering.IT is a team game,if saguin can not make his teammates better why did he get traded in the first place.

He is part of the problem in Dallas.

 

[Soundwave]

If he was such a great player why is the team floundering.IT is a team game,if saguin can not make his teammates better why did he get traded in the first place.

He is part of the problem in Dallas.

You could ask the same questions to McDavid and Draisaitl if you're going to bite on that line of logic.

Last time I checked Dallas is above us in the standings.

 

[Soundwave]

"Losing trades for big players is OK" is just a dumb strategy. The lengths some people go to to try to spin it as some kind of genius philosophy makes me laugh.

If it's such a wonderful philosophy how come other GMs don't do it?

There's a word for it -- it's lazy management. Can't figure out how to get a player? Hey lets overpay out the ass for him.

 

[Senor Catface]

I honestly don't get posts like this. This is just nonsense.

Tyler Seguin is a perennial 70+ point center. That's an incredible player, one of the best in the league. Dallas has had trouble fielding a competent defense and goaltending, but what does that have to do with Seguin? Neither were included in the Seguin deal.

Dallas' mediocrity doesn't make it a win for Chiarelli. He got hosed and should be ridiculed for it. Also, the Oilers are in the bottom five, guess it's time for Chia to come to roost by that same logic?

You not getting it is very clear.

Nowhere did I say the trade was a win. It's statements like that which make not replying to new posters so easy.

I was questioning the logic of his statement. Soundwave has posted here for a long time and we've talked over the years about different subjects.

Just a simple conversation about a player and his effect on two teams. You can't judge the condition of a team based on one player without using that logic on a second. To say a team would be great with him when the current team he is on, is not, is disingenuous, and needs further explanation then was given.

Where did I say anything about it being a win or a loss for a trade? Where did I mention the current placement of the Oilers?