#FIRECHIA

[McNuge]

Personally, I think people give the GM far too much credit in the effect he makes to the on-ice product. The Oilers are where they are in the standings today because of poor execution by the players on this team, not because they miss Jordan Eberle. I wouldn't even consider myself 'pro-Chiarelli', but I'm certainly willing to see his decisions play out. The one thing he does hold over his predecessors though is his willingness to make the difficult trade, even if it's likely not going to be the most well-received.

I agree, over the past 5 games we look like one of the best teams in the NHL again, yet very little has changed in personnel on the ice. Effort is more important than anything. You can have a team of superstars but if the effort level isn't there, well, you aren't winning anything.

 

[Little Fury]

So the the narrative “just have good players” which doesn’t effectively say anything
This team had a collection of talent that should have won more games, yet they could never get it done

Come on, dude, they had no D and no goaltending. You know this. You said it yourself. You can't acknowledge that significant factor and then blame the losing on some "losing culture" b.s.

But he’s addressing a massive need from a position of strength
To me, Larsson’s value is just as important to the Oilers and Hall’s value on the Devils

This is pure homerism. And, given the Oilers have played their best hockey of the season with Larsson out, ill-timed.

 

[belair]

See, it's hard to think you're arguing in good faith when you start from "it was a bad contract" to "well, the deals were good" (while ignoring the obvious fact that Lucic's contract is much worse than Hall's.)

Not unlike my explanation for Eberle, their contracts were luxuries to the Oilers looking forward. We had to build the entire defense, get a starting goaltender, change the dynamic of the roster to work around one player who very well could've cost more than the $12.5m he settled on. Their contracts were 'bad' in the sense that they were making far too much for the roles they we likely to see moving forward.

$6M for a 50+ point winger is pretty much market value these days, even if it wasn't at the time it was signed. Either way, total exaggeration to call that a bad deal.

Yep, I probably could've worded it better and saved myself the effort explaining it. They were luxuries. Fayne, Pouliot, Gordon, Nikitin...those were the 'bad' contracts.

That what catastrophically stupid decision saved us from making a different stupid decision is an..interesting take.

I'm over it. But if people want to mourn the loss of Mathew Barzal, at least come to terms with the fact that the two names floating around the Oilers at the draft were Svechnikov and Eriksson-Ek.

 

[Little Fury]

Not unlike my explanation for Eberle, their contracts were luxuries to the Oilers looking forward. We had to build the entire defense, get a starting goaltender, change the dynamic of the roster to work around one player who very well could've cost more than the $12.5m he settled on. Their contracts were 'bad' in the sense that they were making far too much for the roles they we likely to see moving forward.

Yep, I probably could've worded it better and saved myself the effort explaining it. They were luxuries. Fayne, Pouliot, Gordon, Nikitin...those were the 'bad' contracts.

I'd be inclined to agree, but for the fact that he's added significantly worse contracts in the meantime. Lucic. Russell. The Draisaitl overpay. Deals that are either in excess of market value or unlikely to deliver on that value over the lifespan of the contract. Two steps forward, two steps back.

I'm over it. But if people want to mourn the loss of Mathew Barzal, at least come to terms with the fact that the two names floating around the Oilers at the draft were Svechnikov and Eriksson-Ek.

Yeah and that should give people pause when they start talking about giving the GM the benefit of the doubt.

 

[rjayd2]

I'd be inclined to agree, but for the fact that he's added significantly worse contracts in the meantime. Lucic.

Except for the fact that Milan is one of our best/most consistent forwards lately. Point a game for the last ten.

Ill-timed.

 

[belair]

I'd be inclined to agree, but for the fact that he's added significantly worse contracts in the meantime. Lucic. Russell. The Draisaitl overpay. Deals that are either in excess of market value or unlikely to deliver on that value over the lifespan of the contract. Two steps forward, two steps back.

And right here is where I'm saying that I'm willing to see this play out. Lucic and Russell are both 30 year old players and still contributing at a high level. In terms of performance out of a UFA signing, I'd classify both as wins up to this point. Sekera has also been a win for the most part, assuming he gets back to form. It's not a method you'd like to use often, but Chiarelli has managed to get effective talent from the UFA market to fill important roles. You don't get those players without risking the dollars.

Draisaitl is another discussion altogether that's been discussed thoroughly.

 

[Ol' Jase]

I'd be inclined to agree, but for the fact that he's added significantly worse contracts in the meantime. Lucic. Russell. The Draisaitl overpay. Deals that are either in excess of market value or unlikely to deliver on that value over the lifespan of the contract. Two steps forward, two steps back.

Yeah and that should give people pause when they start talking about giving the GM the benefit of the doubt.

Claiming Lucic is not performing to his contract is utterly ridiculous.

 

[5 Mins 4 Ftg]

The question I have for the pro-Chia crowd is simple... What do you think happens next year with far less cap space?

I hesitate to call myself "pro-Chia" but rather in the "be patient with the year before you fire Chia right now" crowd.

If the cap is up at 80-82M that is of course great news. It allows us far greater flexibility than before. Someone is getting moved or not resigned. I would like to think RNH sticks. There will be free agents to be had, another year of player and prospect development, and who knows what is brewing on the trade front. I have ran a spreadsheet out over 6 years with a 5% cap increase and comparable salaries factored in but in todays money, which of course will increase as the cap increases. One stumbling block will be the Nurse contract I think.

But I am not worried about it because the cap space this year was not really spendable on any free agent for a 1 year term.

The bottom line for me is if the team does not drastically improve over the remaining 50 games and we regress again last year, I am all in on the changes need to be made bandwagon. The fact the team is playing much better hockey, we have some key injuries coming back, the flu bug has gone through the team, so things are trending in the right direction. Time will tell if that will hold over the remaining part of the season.

 

[Drivesaitl]

Lol wall of text.

keep rambling and rambling and rambling.

He has screwed the team beyond repair.

Actually I agree with this. That was way too long and didn't say a lot that could not have been presented much more concisely.

Readers digest version:

Chia is here 5 years, learn to like it, remember he won in Boston (he had a freaking stack of assets there) and lets all have lots of endless supply of patience.

Capspace problems resulted in having to make room for Draisaitl offersheet possibilities even though there were no capspace difficulties and we could have matched pretty much any offer.

My own take? The patience seems to be specious. Hall plays subpar for 25 games to end a pointless season in which we weren't making the playoffs (screw Hall, your ass is traded)

Eberle plays one off year here with disappointing results. Get lost, your ass is traded for Ryan Strome.

Yak gets career siderailed by Eakins, get lost, go to Russia or something.

Pouliot has a bad year - buy out his contract and get rid of him

Pitlick gets injured and its see you later, we got a raft of useless players like Cagg and strome and whoever is waived around the league to fill your slot. Doesn't matter that they are awful.

So have patience with Chia, but screw patience with any players or prospects that came before him. But have endless patience for rejects like Strome who Chia somehow targeted. Also don't note that Eberle has as many goals as any oiler. Try not to notice that. Or that hall is fantastic again this year. Just hurts to notice stuff like that. This is addition by subtraction, remember that..

 

[Little Fury]

Claiming Lucic is not performing to his contract is utterly ridiculous.

Did you read the whole thing or nah?

 

[Drivesaitl]

It's funny that people don't give credit to Chia for Larsson's contract as though that wasn't a factor in the trade or something.

In context why would they? The Hall contract is the best hockey contract in the league as far as production value. Devils got an instant Marquee player and best player on the team and marketable name that sells hockey tickets for 6M. That's an out of the park 4 run homerun.

 

[Kagomeboy]

Actually I agree with this. That was way too long and didn't say a lot that could not have been presented much more concisely.

Readers digest version:

Chia is here 5 years, learn to like it, remember he won in Boston (he had a freaking stack of assets there) and lets all have lots of endless supply of patience.

Capspace problems resulted in having to make room for Draisaitl offersheet possibilities even though there were no capspace difficulties and we could have matched pretty much any offer.

My own take? The patience seems to be specious. Hall plays subpar for 25 games to end a pointless season in which we weren't making the playoffs (screw Hall, your ass is traded)

Eberle plays one off year here with disappointing results. Get lost, your ass is traded for Ryan Strome.

Yak gets career siderailed by Eakins, get lost, go to Russia or something.

Pouliot has a bad year - buy out his contract and get rid of him

Pitlick gets injured and its see you later, we got a raft of useless players like Cagg and strome and whoever is waived around the league to fill your slot. Doesn't matter that they are awful.

So have patience with Chia, but screw patience with any players or prospects that came before him. But have endless patience for rejects like Strome who Chia somehow targeted. Also don't note that Eberle has as many goals as any oiler. Try not to notice that. Or that hall is fantastic again this year. Just hurts to notice stuff like that. This is addition by subtraction, remember that..

That was not what he said,you are making it into something else.

 

[Kagomeboy]

In context why would they? The Hall contract is the best hockey contract in the league as far as production value. Devils got an instant Marquee player and best player on the team and marketable name that sells hockey tickets for 6M. That's an out of the park 4 run homerun.

Taylor Hall is all that really?

 

[Drivesaitl]

I hesitate to call myself "pro-Chia" but rather in the "be patient with the year before you fire Chia right now" crowd.

If the cap is up at 80-82M that is of course great news. It allows us far greater flexibility than before. Someone is getting moved or not resigned. I would like to think RNH sticks. There will be free agents to be had, another year of player and prospect development, and who knows what is brewing on the trade front. I have ran a spreadsheet out over 6 years with a 5% cap increase and comparable salaries factored in but in todays money, which of course will increase as the cap increases. One stumbling block will be the Nurse contract I think.

But I am not worried about it because the cap space this year was not really spendable on any free agent for a 1 year term.

The bottom line for me is if the team does not drastically improve over the remaining 50 games and we regress again last year, I am all in on the changes need to be made bandwagon. The fact the team is playing much better hockey, we have some key injuries coming back, the flu bug has gone through the team, so things are trending in the right direction. Time will tell if that will hold over the remaining part of the season.

much of what your post did is simply offuscate that halfway into his tenure the team is back to where he started from. Except now with far less tradeable assets, far less wingers (players like Hall and Eberle are certainly not easily obtained, you know, except for dealing with guys like Chia in which case he'll fire sale anything that came before him.

If one is actually looking at Chia's body of work to this point theres been more harm than profit to the longterm future of this club.

You say Chia learned something in Boston about his trading but I fail to see what that is. He sold assets on sale in Boston and he's doing tht here.

The devils and Islanders, two teams that were lost in space, now laughing all the way to the bank, and playoffs.

Not only is Chia trading talent, he's trading exciting players that people pay to see. Eberle is among the favorites already in NYI. Hall is absolutely the favorite player in Jersey. So people buying tickets to see improved clubs, and the new faces, and in markets that really needed something positive.

But hey, we got Strome, Jokinen, Camm, Malone, Auvitu, Walker. That's what we get.

That's lumps of coal under the Xmas tree, that's all that is.

 

[KeithIsActuallyBad]

In context why would they? The Hall contract is the best hockey contract in the league as far as production value. Devils got an instant Marquee player and best player on the team and marketable name that sells hockey tickets for 6M. That's an out of the park 4 run homerun.

Id argue Tavares is but you have a solid point.

 

[belair]

much of what your post did is simply offuscate that halfway into his tenure the team is back to where he started from. Except now with far less tradeable assets, far less wingers (players like Hall and Eberle are certainly not easily obtained, you know, except for dealing with guys like Chia in which case he'll fire sale anything that came before him.

If one is actually looking at Chia's body of work to this point theres been more harm than profit to the longterm future of this club.

You say Chia learned something in Boston about his trading but I fail to see what that is. He sold assets on sale in Boston and he's doing tht here.

The devils and Islanders, two teams that were lost in space, now laughing all the way to the bank, and playoffs.

Yep, the Oilers today have no defense, no goaltending, no prospects to speak of...

The Oilers today are nowhere near where they started from. This team will be far ahead of where they are located now in the standing by season's end, so even the standings likely don't back your argument.

And not that I could give two shits about the Devils or the Islanders, but both are still significantly flawed teams who we had no issues walking all over. Neither are shoe-ins for playoff berths.

 

[Little Fury]

And right here is where I'm saying that I'm willing to see this play out. Lucic and Russell are both 30 year old players and still contributing at a high level. In terms of performance out of a UFA signing, I'd classify both as wins up to this point. Sekera has also been a win for the most part, assuming he gets back to form.

Yeah, I'll concede Lucic is providing value production wise, but the clock is ticking there. Russell and "high level" are terms that don't really belong in the same sentence, but I can see some value there for a 4-6 D even if the contract is too much for too long. It's funny that Sekera is probably Chia's best move and I'll give him full credit for that even if the player and the team were a no-brainer match (see also: Talbot).

It's not a method you'd like to use often, but Chiarelli has managed to get effective talent from the UFA market to fill important roles. You don't get those players without risking the dollars.

But the point here is this: you can't on the one hand claim he simply had to move Hall and Eberle for contract reasons and then turn around and defend a bunch of costly FA signings that were a matter of choice, not necessity.

 

[Drivesaitl]

Id argue Tavares is but you have a solid point.

I'm confused with your reply. Tavares plays for the Islanders.

 

[Kagomeboy]

Yep, the Oilers today have no defense, no goaltending, no prospects to speak of...

The Oilers today are nowhere near where they started from. This team will be far ahead of where they are located now in the standing by season's end, so even the standings likely don't back your argument.

And not that I could give two ****s about the Devils or the Islanders, but both are still significantly flawed teams who we had no issues walking all over. Neither are shoe-ins for playoff berths.[/QUOTE]

Right on,they are an okey teams but not as outstanding as some think they are.

 

[Drivesaitl]

Yep, the Oilers today have no defense, no goaltending, no prospects to speak of...

The Oilers today are nowhere near where they started from. This team will be far ahead of where they are located now in the standing by season's end, so even the standings likely don't back your argument.

And not that I could give two ****s about the Devils or the Islanders, but both are still significantly flawed teams who we had no issues walking all over. Neither are shoe-ins for playoff berths.

So you're justifying present then on a future unknown because you clearly see the future. Any Lotto numbers for Wednesday?

All Chia has done is get rid of assets to create holes where non existed before in an attempt to fill holes. All we have still, is a pretty average D and with ZERO PMD in the lineup. With guys like Auvitu and Davidson looking like our best puck movers.

Like I've said many times we essentially traded Taylor Hall for a no offense, no transition, but he hits a lot version of Jason Smith.

We traded a PPG producer for a D that isn't even among the top 30 D in the league.

3yrs in and Nurse is the 2nd best D we have. Of course Chia shouldn't get credit for that.

But I should do backflips because Chia overpaid for Sekera and traded a franchise player for Larsson.

 

[Kagomeboy]

So you're justifying present then on a future unknown because you clearly see the future. Any Lotto numbers for Wednesday?

All Chia has done is get rid of assets to create holes where non existed before in an attempt to fill holes. All we have still, is a pretty average D and with ZERO PMD in the lineup. With guys like Auvitu and Davidson looking like our best puck movers.

Like I've said many times we essentially traded Taylor Hall for a no offense, no transition, but he hits a lot version of Jason Smith.

We traded a PPG producer for a D that isn't even among the top 30 D in the league.

3yrs in and Nurse is the 2nd best D we have. Of course Chia shouldn't get credit for that.

But I should do backflips because Chia overpaid for Sekera and traded a franchise player for Larsson.

He did not overpay for Sekera and Hall is not a franchise player.

 

[belair]

Yeah, I'll concede Lucic is providing value production wise, but the clock is ticking there. Russell and "high level" are terms that don't really belong in the same sentence, but I can see some value there for a 4-6 D even if the contract is too much for too long. It's funny that Sekera is probably Chia's best move and I'll give him full credit for that even if the player and the team were a no-brainer match (see also: Talbot).

But the point here is this: you can't on the one hand claim he simply had to move Hall and Eberle for contract reasons and then turn around and defend a bunch of costly FA signings that were a matter of choice, not necessity.

Hall was moved for both salary reasons and the fact he was capable of freeing up a player like Larsson. He was a significant asset used to address a more significant need on the roster, stabilizing the defense. There was no UFA signing out there capable of doing that. Those types of players simply never become available.

Eberle on the other hand didn't hold near the same value, so yes, his salary was divvied up to fill depth on the roster. Strome fills a depth scoring need.

Ultimately, the defense was always a more glaring need than our wing depth. Although we're seeing that be an issue now, it will always be easier to address.

 

[KeithIsActuallyBad]

I'm confused with your reply. Tavares plays for the Islanders.

You said Hall is the best value for production in the league. I think Tavares beats him.

 

[oXo Cube]

Best value for production in the league is pretty obviously Nikita Kucherov.

ELC's aside of course, because it's technically McDavid.

 

[Drivesaitl]

He did not overpay for Sekera and Hall is not a franchise player.

Hall is a franchise player. He was here prior to McD and he is the Franchise, Marquee player in Jersey. Try telling fans in Jersey that you're an Oiler fan "coming in peace" and that your an Edmonton fan and "Hall is not a franchise player'' let me know how it goes.