Fire Shanahan/Dubas (Yay or Nay)

[PromisedLand]

• No cap left for quality depth
• 50% of the cap allocated to 4 players (all forwards)
• No NHL experience (coach/gm)
• Fire Shanahan, Dubas
• Get someone new with solid NHL experience (GM/Coach) tandem that does not bend to players' demands based on how much players make

• Not dubas' fault - players should take responsibility
• Keefe is good he did not bend to players' demands
• Dubas is a solid GM; we should not be looking for another GM/Coach tandem
• There is no cap issues; Dubas/Pridham are cap masters
• Cap allocation is great - don't have to worry about quality depth

FIRE Shanahan/Dubas/Keefe? Yes/No

Click to read more...

 

[A1LeafNation]

Management, coaching, depth, defence, and goaltending did their job.

Mitch and Matthews did not do what their peers do.

 

[United35]

As bad as we make some of the Leafs issues to be, we still have a multitude of options available as a franchise. Lots of teams would happily inherit our situation.

Not that long ago we were staring at the likes of Antropov and Ponikarovsky and wondering what the heck we were going to do.

 

[ACC1224]

They aren’t going anywhere yet.

 

[Stephen]

It feels too James Dolan-dysfunctional to pull the plug on what is a work in progress at the roster level. The idea of cleaning house to bring in another tough talking president, another GM and so many big contracts with term on the books reeks of impatience and instability. Didn't like Dubas' early work and I don't like his cap management or some of his draft classes but I think there's enough adaptation going on from last offseason to show he can retool and build a roster in a creative way.

 

[hamzarocks]

Shanahan should 100% be fired he is the biggest fraud on this team.

Absolutely a take leader who has taken no criticism and deflected all criticism away to others

He has no role with this team. Get rid of him and hire an experience guy like Jim Rutherford or Dean Lombardi

Dubas I give one last shot depending on how he addresses the media tomorrow. If we fall in the 1st again we have to rebuild the team if marner is still on the roster and we don't shake the core up this year.

 

[hamzarocks]

It feels too James Dolan-dysfunctional to pull the plug on what is a work in progress at the roster level. The idea of cleaning house to bring in another tough talking president, another GM and so many big contracts with term on the books reeks of impatience and instability. Didn't like Dubas' early work and I don't like his cap management or some of his draft classes but I think there's enough adaptation going on from last offseason to show he can retool and build a roster in a creative way.

There is nothing creative he can do

He can make a block buster in dealing marner and/or rielly which changes the dynamic up huge but that's not creative that's a deconstruction and reconstruction of the nucleus of the core and changing the team philosophy after accepting he was wrong and defeat that 4 forwards making half the cap can't win you a series never mind the cup

Creative addition direction is instead if simmonds/Joe/foligno he has Robertson + 1 of haula/granlund/coleman + Perry/other hometown veteran and then he adds a decent 1B goalie

I really don't see how barring a core shakeup we can beat Boston or Tampa. I don't even have any confidence in us beating the sens and Habs next year if we play them in a best of 7 with the same core setup.

Only team I can consider would be the panthers though losing to them could be the final accomplishment we have left with this core.

I seriously don't see marner being mature enough or good enough to be a superstar in the playoffs. The same applies for Matthews to me and we have I jury concerns now creeping up with JT/muzzin/Brodie all being above 30 in age

 

[3blizzard4]

If these two are gone the next management has an excuse for the next five years for not winning : "we inherited a mess".

 

[rumman]

Hell yeah

 

[usernamezrhardtodo]

It feels too James Dolan-dysfunctional to pull the plug on what is a work in progress at the roster level. The idea of cleaning house to bring in another tough talking president, another GM and so many big contracts with term on the books reeks of impatience and instability. Didn't like Dubas' early work and I don't like his cap management or some of his draft classes but I think there's enough adaptation going on from last offseason to show he can retool and build a roster in a creative way.

I hope you're right...but I also hope he realizes that the playoffs are totally different because of the penalties being called at a lower rate compared to the actual rate of infraction. If he doesn't realize it and insists on having guys who are perimeter players...we are doomed.

I think they need a new coach from outside the organization to give a different feel to this team. We had Babs for 4.5yrs and Keefe was here in a sense the whole time. The guys that feel snake bitten are seeing the same people tell them to do the same thing over and over again and that it will work. Its not. Time for someone fresh to come in and do this another way.

I don't want to hear that Keefe had success in lower leagues...almost every single coach has that on their resume. That's why they are coaching in the NHL. It's not like Keefe is the only guy who did well...but you would think it was due to his fan in Dubas.

A guy that was pretty much out coached by Randy Carlyle is pretty sad. Randy had the sense to get Kessel away from Chara in 2013 and guess what..Phil started scoring. Did you see anything of the sort in this series?

 

[GoonieFace]

They both need to go. Boy wonder has completely handcuffed this team, continues to trade draft picks by overrating this team. He is in over his head, and Shanahan is clueless. They had a good thing going with Lou, brought in Dubas (mistake), who in turn brought in a terrible inexperienced coach. Clown show

 

[Mickey Marner]

Shanahan for sure. New president can choose what to do with Dubas.

 

[mikeyz]

I give them 1 more year. But, if we lose in the 1st round again next year, they're 100 % gone.

 

[Menzinger]

They'll get one more year from ownership to revamp their strategy. Which I don't think is particularly unreasonable.

Major changes to the org will still be happening in some form or the other this off-season.

And if they can't get the job done next post season I suspect they'll be removed then.

 

[Stephen]

I hope you're right...but I also hope he realizes that the playoffs are totally different because of the penalties being called at a lower rate compared to the actual rate of infraction. If he doesn't realize it and insists on having guys who are perimeter players...we are doomed.

I think they need a new coach from outside the organization to give a different feel to this team. We had Babs for 4.5yrs and Keefe was here in a sense the whole time. The guys that feel snake bitten are seeing the same people tell them to do the same thing over and over again and that it will work. Its not. Time for someone fresh to come in and do this another way.

I don't want to hear that Keefe had success in lower leagues...almost every single coach has that on their resume. That's why they are coaching in the NHL. It's not like Keefe is the only guy who did well...but you would think it was due to his fan in Dubas.

A guy that was pretty much out coached by Randy Carlyle is pretty sad. Randy had the sense to get Kessel away from Chara in 2013 and guess what..Phil started scoring. Did you see anything of the sort in this series?

I just feel like the last thing we need is JFJ getting fired and a guy like Cliff Fletcher is brought in to clean house and clear the decks based on emotions and destroying the country club or whatever it is.

The core probably needs some major edits, probably looks like Marner headed out, probably looks like some combination of Hyman, Andersen Kerfoot and Rielly not not returning to build a critical mass of cap space and pivoting towards a new revamped core like Hamilton (UFA) and Eichel (for Marner) as an example of the scale and magnitude of changes.

But I think it has to be done by Shanahan and Dubas learning on the job as opposed to throwing away all that institutional continuity and having potentially the wrong guys come in and botch the yardsale and set us back 7 years instead of 2 or whatever it is. I'm not saying business as usual, but we can't nuke it either with no survivors. We're on a clock and there's no value in setting it back to Year 0.

I also don't want to set up some Imlach vs Sittler/McDonald or Burke vs Kaberle tension in the organization to further disable the ability of the players that are here. Tough guy reformer vs underachieving core and all the sports drama that ensues. It's just too dysfunctional and bad for business.

 

[sxvnert]

Yes if they don't change the core of this team this team thia summer. Standing pat is a clear indication to the fanbase that: this choke job was acceptable, core can perform however they want, and making the post season alone is good enough.

 

[TheGreatOne11]

The Leafs will "stay the course" and show that they stand behind the GM, President and club.

But behind the scenes they will have been told this is their last chance to make it right.

One of the main reasons i don't want them fired like someone above mentioned, it just gives the new GM, coach, president, whatever. An excuse to take 5 years because this isn't "their" team and they inherited it this way.

I don't think we are far enough away from cup contenders to blow up the whole bloody things if everybody performed up to expectations this conversation right now wouldn't even be happening.

Tavares injury was a freak accident and the two big boys didn't come to play, if the former and latter never happen we win 2 rounds.

One more year i would imagine. After that its an entire new organization coming in i bet, but that's just my guess, who knows.

 

[sxvnert]

I just feel like the last thing we need is JFJ getting fired and a guy like Cliff Fletcher is brought in to clean house and clear the decks based on emotions and destroying the country club or whatever it is.

The core probably needs some major edits, probably looks like Marner headed out, probably looks like some combination of Hyman, Andersen Kerfoot and Rielly not not returning to build a critical mass of cap space and pivoting towards a new revamped core like Hamilton (UFA) and Eichel (for Marner) as an example of the scale and magnitude of changes.

But I think it has to be done by Shanahan and Dubas learning on the job as opposed to throwing away all that institutional continuity and having potentially the wrong guys come in and botch the yardsale and set us back 7 years instead of 2 or whatever it is. I'm not saying business as usual, but we can't nuke it either with no survivors.

No need to clear house, only to send a message to matthews, etc that the org is serious about winning. Trading marner will accomplish that. If it doesn't then you you move him next for a king ransom.

 

[AndyWozniewski]

I better see Dubas tear into Matthews and Marner (mostly Marner) during his press conference. I wanna hear something along the lines of:

"We thought we built a great team this year, but the star players simply did not execute or bother showing up in the playoffs".

Enough of coddling them, show some accountability. Everyone on the team did their jobs except these two guys. Spezza, Willy, Brodie, Kerfoot and Campbell all played fantastic.

 

[CantLoseWithMatthews]

I personally wouldn't, but I definitely don't blame anyone who would. Dubas bet his career on these players to win, and they haven't. If people want him to lose his job, he invited that

 

[FraumBallard]

It feels too James Dolan-dysfunctional to pull the plug on what is a work in progress at the roster level. The idea of cleaning house to bring in another tough talking president, another GM and so many big contracts with term on the books reeks of impatience and instability. Didn't like Dubas' early work and I don't like his cap management or some of his draft classes but I think there's enough adaptation going on from last offseason to show he can retool and build a roster in a creative way.

The Leafs have been worse every year under Dubas.
He is pissing away our window and is clearly not capable of building a playoff Team.
How many more failures will it take for you to see this??
2/4/forever?
It is very clear what the problem is.
Wonder Boy.
And.
Shanahan for hiring him.
Don’t need to talk points,individual stats etc...
Nothing matters except the Stanley Cup.

 

[Gabriel426]

For the first time, I think they will be under pressure to win in the playoffs bc of the extra revenue.
As MLSE would need to recoup the loss or lack of income for this past season. 10 playoff games will surely help.

 

[Buds17]

As close to "yes" as I have been. A real eye-opener to squander that series lead to a lower ranked team.

 

[Gallagbi]

• No cap left for quality depth
• 50% of the cap allocated to 4 players (all forwards)

I may get there, but I wouldn't fire at this point.

The first two points can easily be traded off of eachother to resolve that issue.

 

[RomanianLeafs]

No..Dubas needs to stay, don't care to much about Shanahan