Speculation: Fire Rob Blake Blow it Up Offseason Thread (update: Robitaille, Blake and Hiller stay)

[funky]

I agree. It's not even that everything needs to be revolutionized, but there has to be the capacity to do some honest assessments and adjusting to what works and what doesn't.

The biggest plight on the team isn't even going for it. It's the doubling and tripling down with the assumption they're 'one player' away.

Well technically we are. We are

1 solid starting goalie
1 right shot scoring winger
1 left shot top pairing offensive d man
1 coach that doesn’t put square pegs in round holes
1 GM that has a plan
1 President that doesn’t get off smelling his own farts. Sorry I am so down on Luc right now I could care less if they replaced him with Carrot Top. Carrot Top acts more lucid.

So basically 1 of everything, does that count

 

[Raccoon Jesus]

I would agree to the theory but half those guys in reality may not have been good enough to play a regular shift in the NHL no matter how they were cooked. Some I agree there were some poor handled guys but maybe guys like Fagemo,Villalta and Ingham just are not good enough.

Kupari, Byfield, Turcotte, and Vilardi all had major injuries that set them back and extended their minor league careers and in Kupari and Turcotte’s case maybe robbed them of critical growth time.

I am supportive of our amateur scouting staff and very negative with our development staff and development philosophy. The thing that struck me looking back at our prospects is just how unlucky we have had it injury wise to our top prospects. Lately Ziemmer missed most the season and our Russian left shot Dman, having brain fart, came over but couldn’t play.

Unfortunately Luc’s apparent lobotomy at and early presser telling us about family and Christmas cookies or something, the handling of Clarke, the deployment of skilled rookies on a checking line and Blake’s lack of a plan make me see red. I want to ignore the Covid effect, the injuries, and concentrate solely on why each prospect is not living up to expectations or timelines even if some of the problem may be the prospects themselves or just drafting the wrong player for our system.

It’s not like we drafted 5 top 5 guys like the Oilers did a few years ago. I think the players that we drafted were drafted where they should have been or close to where they should have been. I never expect anyone outside a top 50 pick to pan out and am elated when they do. We do have to nail the early picks when we get them and they have to be players that both fit the system, have no health concerns and have a huge amount of skill. Can’t draft square pegs to fit in round holes and can’t draft elite skilled guys and bring them up as checkers. Somewhere in this organization the wires are badly crossed and that is in Bluc. If they can’t figure it out time for a change.

my big thing for it all is even IF we had it all backwards--maybe drafting sucks and development is great!--how would we know since the deployment is literally amongst the worst Ive ever seen?

 

[funky]

my big thing for it all is even IF we had it all backwards--maybe drafting sucks and development is great!--how would we know since the deployment is literally amongst the worst Ive ever seen?

Drafting - development- deployment

Very awesome topics. You are very spot about deployment. It’s the D word that is not talked about enough with the kings.

You don’t draft a Kaliyev thinking he is a sniper, develop him to be a checker then deploy him to play forth line minutes with non offensive plugs and complain he doesn’t score or check enough unless you are a true mastermind.

 

[bland]

Drafting - development- deployment

Very awesome topics. You are very spot about deployment. It’s the D word that is not talked about enough with the kings.

You don’t draft a Kaliyev thinking he is a sniper, develop him to be a checker then deploy him to play forth line minutes with non offensive plugs and complain he doesn’t score or check enough unless you are a true mastermind.

I am starting to wonder if there really was any way to reach Kaliyev at all. For all we know, the heavy handedness wasn't the first try. The error may have been more a case of lousy predraft due diligence or a third early pick flyer on a kid with concerns but high skill.

McLellan really did spell it out last year when he said that Kaliyev needed to put in the work to be a teammate.

And I am not entirely sold on the idea that they have drafted well before soiling themselves in the developmental department either.

 

[Mattias]

Good lord, please tell me he didn’t use the baseball analogy?...

I hate to tell you this, but he absolutely did. Kings of the podcast had him on and talked about how LA had the best overall metric for drafting/baseball rookie of the year age. I do praise the podcast for giving some listener questions with Yannetti sputtering a bit and unable to answer some genuinely difficult questions.

 

[King'sPawn]

I hate to tell you this, but he absolutely did. Kings of the podcast had him on and talked about how LA had the best overall metric for drafting/baseball rookie of the year age. I do praise the podcast for giving some listener questions with Yannetti sputtering a bit and unable to answer some genuinely difficult questions.

That metric was actually done by Hockey Prospectus, and Yannetti was asked to comment on it.

He gave an extensive answer about how they make projections for 7 years while other teams use 5 years. And how once players are at a certain point (unlikely to hit 200 games) then there are concerns.

He brought up baseball, but it was a fairly insignificant detail compared to the rest of his answers to the line of questioning.

 

[Statto]

That metric was actually done by Hockey Prospectus, and Yannetti was asked to comment on it.

He gave an extensive answer about how they make projections for 7 years while other teams use 5 years. And how once players are at a certain point (unlikely to hit 200 games) then there are concerns.

He brought up baseball, but it was a fairly insignificant detail compared to the rest of his answers to the line of questioning.

The baseball comment was very much a throw away analogy. It wasn’t a great one but it wasn’t one he seemed tied to, if was just off the top of his head. We’ve all made similarly bad (and worse) analogy.

 

[Raccoon Jesus]

Yeah but did anyone go to Arthur Kaliyev's birthday

 

[King'sPawn]

Yeah but did anyone go to Arthur Kaliyev's birthday

They'll have a big bash for his 50th birthday party next year

 

[Herby]

That metric was actually done by Hockey Prospectus, and Yannetti was asked to comment on it.

He gave an extensive answer about how they make projections for 7 years while other teams use 5 years. And how once players are at a certain point (unlikely to hit 200 games) then there are concerns.

He brought up baseball, but it was a fairly insignificant detail compared to the rest of his answers to the line of questioning.

Using a 7 year projection when players hit waivers sooner than that is one of those truly baffling things this organization does (and a big reason nobody else does).

Kind of like the AGM saying they drafted a player #2 overall knowing he may not hit his peak until age 25, and then proceed to sign said player to a contract that makes him an UFA at age 26.

This organization is a complete circus under these guys, they are on par with the MLB team 30 miles down the 5. Say a prayer for those of us who are fans of both teams.

 

[King'sPawn]

Using a 7 year projection when players hit waivers sooner than that is one of those truly baffling things this organization does (and a big reason nobody else does).

Kind of like the AGM saying they drafted a player #2 overall knowing he may not hit his peak until age 25, and then proceed to sign said player to a contract that makes him an UFA at age 26.

This organization is a complete circus under these guys, they are on par with the MLB team 30 miles down the 5. Say a prayer for those of us who are fans of both teams.

I don't entirely disagree. I've gone on record thinking changes need to be made. I just don't think Yannetti has shown he's part of the problem when he (along with Futa) provided good results under Lombardi.

I also wanted to correct that Yannetti's response was more detailed than portrayed.

For additional clarity, that ranking of NHL drafting success by Hockey Prospectus was from 2006-2015 drafts (give or take a year, sorry I don't remember). And that range was used to give picks reasonable time to carve out a career.

I DO think 7-year projections is a good idea (because it helps identify franchise players and estimating their peak). But I just don't want them to hitch their development decisions to slow boil almost every prospect, thinking that as long as they hit 200 games by year 7, that it's a success. Are they doing that? I'm sure they'll say no. But I still think the biggest issue is the rigidity in how they develop and deploy their prospects.

 

[Kingsfan1]

We were the youngest team in the playoffs last year both by age and postseason experience . Oilers are oldest team in the NHL next year . I think this is the year we actually get out of the first round . The tide is turning ladies and gents

#Believe

 

[All The Kings Men]

Byfield spent one weird COVID season in the AHL.
Yes. They could have had him play the entire season in the NHL but they didn't.

After that he played 11 games after returning from a broken ankle in his rookie season and 16 games the following season as he recovered from a bout of an unknown illness.

They didn't "slow boil" Byfield.

 

[Kingsfan1]

We currently have a little over 1.3 million in cap space and thats with 8 dmen and 3 goalies . As we know one of Burroughs or England will be sent down along with Copley so after one of Burroughs and England go down and Copley’s 825k off the books that leaves us with around 3.2 million in cap space currently which is a lot more than I thought we would have . We can actually add someone decent .

How would everyone feel about Ryan Johansen for our bottom 6. Big centerman protects the puck well and has skill . His 70 point days are behind him but he would be another right shot on the PP and he can provide important offense from the bottom 6 which is crucial in the postseason and he can play and would not be a liability. I wouldn’t mind giving him a chance .

 

[deaderhead28]

We currently have a little over 1.3 million in cap space and thats with 8 dmen and 3 goalies . As we know one of Burroughs or England will be sent down along with Copley so after one of Burroughs and England go down and Copley’s 825k off the books that leaves us with around 3.2 million in cap space currently which is a lot more than I thought we would have . We can actually add someone decent .

How would everyone feel about Ryan Johansen for our bottom 6. Big centerman protects the puck well and has skill . His 70 point days are behind him but he would be another right shot on the PP and he can provide important offense from the bottom 6 which is crucial in the postseason and he can play and would not be a liability. I wouldn’t mind giving him a chance .

Just a quick roster projection.

 

[kilowatt]

im not joking, if la acquires evander kane im done with this team

 

[All The Kings Men]

As we know one of Burroughs or England will be sent down

do we know that?

that leaves us with around 3.2 million in cap space currently

I've got the team with $4,246,666 in cap space but that's with the 12 forwards, 6 defensemen and 2 goalies that are widely considered "locks"

It doesn't account for Kaliyev or extra forwards or defensemen.

Burroughs and Englund are each $1M ish

Fagemo is $775k, Kaliyev is TBD

I would caution anyone to start acting as if they know exactly how much cap space the Kings will have to negotiate just yet.

How would everyone feel about Ryan Johansen for our bottom 6. Big centerman protects the puck well and has skill . His 70 point days are behind him but he would be another right shot on the PP and he can provide important offense from the bottom 6 which is crucial in the postseason and he can play and would not be a liability. I wouldn’t mind giving him a chance .

Can he even play?

Three teams have moved on or tried to move on from him in the last like 14 months.

I don't even think it's clear that he's capable of playing right now or what his status is.

Just a quick roster projection.View attachment 902522

I have strong reservations about that projection. For multiple reasons not the least of which is Kaliyev's cap hit.

 

[Kingsfan1]

Just a quick roster projection.View attachment 902522

Respect for putting it together brother . Idk how but Puckpedia is the one that has our current capspace at 1.3 million with Burroughs , England and Copley on the books as well . I got my numbers from there and added Copleys and Burroughs caphit as well. Obviously Kaliyev’s caphit however is not included

 

[Kingsfan1]

do we know that?

I've got the team with $4,246,666 in cap space but that's with the 12 forwards, 6 defensemen and 2 goalies that are widely considered "locks"

It doesn't account for Kaliyev or extra forwards or defensemen.

Burroughs and Englund are each $1M ish

Fagemo is $775k, Kaliyev is TBD

I would caution anyone to start acting as if they know exactly how much cap space the Kings will have to negotiate just yet.

Can he even play?

Three teams have moved on or tried to move on from him in the last like 14 months.

I don't even think it's clear that he's capable of playing right now or what his status is.


I have strong reservations about that projection. For multiple reasons not the least of which is Kaliyev's cap hit.

Well i figured its a foregone conclusion based off what Zach has mentioned in his articles over at Lakingsinsider and few other Kings reporters that we wouldn’t be carrying 8 dmen and that one of Burroughs or England would be sent down and their caphit can be utilized else where .

Your caphit numbers coincide with mine i got off puckpedia . Definitely have more capspace than i anticipated and think we can add a decent player to help out the bottom 6 .

For Johansen i mean he is 2 years removed from 63 points on a defense first Predators team and did follow that up with 28 points in 55 games before getting injured and going to the Avs last year . Coming back from injury and yes he didnt perform well with the Avs but his 13 goals and 23 points would put him 9th on the Kings in goals last year and 10th in points . After doing more research however on why the Flyers just terminated his contract apparently he is still injured and its more serious than they were aware of . So nvm on Johansen but we can utilize that capspace and add a decent player .

Some UFAs still out there that can help are Tyler Johnson , Kevin Labanc , Kailer Yamamoto or we can go the trade route which a part of me believes we are exploring because Portillo and Kaliyev are still unsigned and seem to have been put on the back burner . Guess we shall see how we utilize the capspace .

I cant wait for the season to start , i feel very optimistic about this year especially after learning we were the youngest team in the entire playoffs last year both in age and postseason experience like i posted in another post above.

 

[Statto]

I don't entirely disagree. I've gone on record thinking changes need to be made. I just don't think Yannetti has shown he's part of the problem when he (along with Futa) provided good results under Lombardi.

I also wanted to correct that Yannetti's response was more detailed than portrayed.

For additional clarity, that ranking of NHL drafting success by Hockey Prospectus was from 2006-2015 drafts (give or take a year, sorry I don't remember). And that range was used to give picks reasonable time to carve out a career.

I DO think 7-year projections is a good idea (because it helps identify franchise players and estimating their peak). But I just don't want them to hitch their development decisions to slow boil almost every prospect, thinking that as long as they hit 200 games by year 7, that it's a success. Are they doing that? I'm sure they'll say no. But I still think the biggest issue is the rigidity in how they develop and deploy their prospects.

Which Yannetti dropped into the conversation isn’t how he would do it. The other point of the 7 years was that it allowed for the late bloomers. He said pretty much (I’m paraphrasing) that at 5 years you have a high level of assurance as to what a player will be and that there is then the odd guy that puts it together later. He certainly wasn’t selling the idea that 7 years should be the development driver, just the method of draft assessment/review.

 

[Kingsfan1]

im not joking, if la acquires evander kane im done with this team

I highly doubt that for many reasons like him having a NMC and not waiving for us and also the bad blood between him and some of our players but where exactly did this rumor come from ?

 

[GoldenBearHockey]

Byfield spent one weird COVID season in the AHL.
Yes. They could have had him play the entire season in the NHL but they didn't.

After that he played 11 games after returning from a broken ankle in his rookie season and 16 games the following season as he recovered from a bout of an unknown illness.

They didn't "slow boil" Byfield.

Bullshit they didn't man.....bullshit, he's only got 179 NHL games compared to Stutlzes 285, if that isn't f***ing slow boiled I don't know what is....

I mean context doesn't matter right?

No worries, I've only been shouting it for a f***ing year that Byfield isn't slow boiled......but then I get called a blake lover or apologist or whatever else it is they want to say....

Have they slow boiled prospects, absolutely, have they not done it to others, absolutely, it's amazing what happens when you take a nuanced approach and treat individuals....as wait for it...f***ing individuals.

Thank you for listening, lmao

 

[Statto]

Bullshit they didn't man.....bullshit, he's only got 179 NHL games compared to Stutlzes 285, if that isn't f***ing slow boiled I don't know what is....

I mean context doesn't matter right?

No worries, I've only been shouting it for a f***ing year that Byfield isn't slow boiled......but then I get called a blake lover or apologist or whatever else it is they want to say....

Have they slow boiled prospects, absolutely, have they not done it to others, absolutely, it's amazing what happens when you take a nuanced approach and treat individuals....as wait for it...f***ing individuals.

Thank you for listening, lmao

Blake lover.

 

[YP44]

Byfield spent one weird COVID season in the AHL.
Yes. They could have had him play the entire season in the NHL but they didn't.

After that he played 11 games after returning from a broken ankle in his rookie season and 16 games the following season as he recovered from a bout of an unknown illness.

They didn't "slow boil" Byfield.

Did I mis hear Yanetti when compared Stu vs QB and the development curve? They may not have slow boiled him as far as needing AHL experience, but they did not just put him in the roster spot they envisioned him being in the future right off the hop either.

We currently have a little over 1.3 million in cap space and thats with 8 dmen and 3 goalies . As we know one of Burroughs or England will be sent down along with Copley so after one of Burroughs and England go down and Copley’s 825k off the books that leaves us with around 3.2 million in cap space currently which is a lot more than I thought we would have . We can actually add someone decent .

How would everyone feel about Ryan Johansen for our bottom 6. Big centerman protects the puck well and has skill . His 70 point days are behind him but he would be another right shot on the PP and he can provide important offense from the bottom 6 which is crucial in the postseason and he can play and would not be a liability. I wouldn’t mind giving him a chance .

Don't want to take ice time away from Turcotte and/or Thomas.

im not joking, if la acquires evander kane im done with this team

Kane 50% plus 1st for Kaliyev. You say no to that? If LA gives anything of Value for kane I fully agree, if the sweetener is enough and it works cap wise I am at least open to it. Edmonton would be dumb to do it and would find better options.

 

[YP44]

Well i figured its a foregone conclusion based off what Zach has mentioned in his articles over at Lakingsinsider and few other Kings reporters that we wouldn’t be carrying 8 dmen and that one of Burroughs or England would be sent down and their caphit can be utilized else where .

Your caphit numbers coincide with mine i got off puckpedia . Definitely have more capspace than i anticipated and think we can add a decent player to help out the bottom 6 .

For Johansen i mean he is 2 years removed from 63 points on a defense first Predators team and did follow that up with 28 points in 55 games before getting injured and going to the Avs last year . Coming back from injury and yes he didnt perform well with the Avs but his 13 goals and 23 points would put him 9th on the Kings in goals last year and 10th in points . After doing more research however on why the Flyers just terminated his contract apparently he is still injured and its more serious than they were aware of . So nvm on Johansen but we can utilize that capspace and add a decent player .

Some UFAs still out there that can help are Tyler Johnson , Kevin Labanc , Kailer Yamamoto or we can go the trade route which a part of me believes we are exploring because Portillo and Kaliyev are still unsigned and seem to have been put on the back burner . Guess we shall see how we utilize the capspace .

I cant wait for the season to start , i feel very optimistic about this year especially after learning we were the youngest team in the entire playoffs last year both in age and postseason experience like i posted in another post above.

Why do you want to bring in anyone else right now. I would rather see what we have in Thomas and keep the cap space to potentially add in season.