Speculation: Fire Rob Blake Blow it Up Offseason Thread (update: Robitaille, Blake and Hiller stay)

[tigermask48]

Which Yannetti dropped into the conversation isn’t how he would do it. The other point of the 7 years was that it allowed for the late bloomers. He said pretty much (I’m paraphrasing) that at 5 years you have a high level of assurance as to what a player will be and that there is then the odd guy that puts it together later. He certainly wasn’t selling the idea that 7 years should be the development driver, just the method of draft assessment/review.

This statement is complete and udder crap and a lie, and it's obvious when you look at the late bloomers the Kings drafted, Colin Miller, Brodzinski, Kubalik, Amadio, Middleton, Eyssimont are all late bloomers with other teams.

The Kings aren't good at finding late bloomers either, or at least not good at keeping them.

 

[Schrute farms]

We were the youngest team in the playoffs last year both by age and postseason experience . Oilers are oldest team in the NHL next year . I think this is the year we actually get out of the first round . The tide is turning ladies and gents

#Believe

Keep saying it and one of these years, this may indeed happen....maybe

 

[kovacro]

I highly doubt that for many reasons like him having a NMC and not waiving for us and also the bad blood between him and some of our players but where exactly did this rumor come from ?

It came from two Oiler fans in Medicine Hat.

 

[KopitarGOAT420]

Wonder if the Kings are going to make any offers for Askarov. I know the Kings now have some intriguing goaltender options in the pipeline now with Portillo, George, and Slukynsky but Askarov is a true blue chip goaltending prospect that could help them this season and could be a top 10 goalie for the next 10-15 years.

You'd then have Byfield, Clarke, and Askarov to build around (ideally that's your 1C, 1D, and 1G for the next 10 years if all 3 live up to the hype).

I'd be really interested in knowing Nashville's asking price. They don't have a ton of leverage and while Askarov is definitely an elite goaltending prospect he's still unproven and goalies are unpredictable so I doubt the price tag would be the same as a blue chip center or D prospect.

Would Portillo, Kaliyev, and a 3rd round pick get it done? Might seem like an underwhelming offer but Portillo's a very good goaltending prospect, Kaliyev is talented but needs a change of scenery, and a 3rd round pick is solid.

I'd probably even be willing to bump that 3rd round pick to a 2nd round pick if needed. Then Rittich or Kuemper would likely end up in the AHL.

 

[King'sPawn]

Today I learned it only counts as a slow boil if he doesn't play in the NHL for x number of years, ignoring that a second overall was a bottom-six player with an average of 1 minute of powerplay time until the last quarter of his D+3 year.

And apparently Yannetti also doesn't know what he's talking about when he has said they take their time with prospects.

 

[Statto]

This statement is complete and udder crap and a lie, and it's obvious when you look at the late bloomers the Kings drafted, Colin Miller, Brodzinski, Kubalik, Amadio, Middleton, Eyssimont are all late bloomers with other teams.

The Kings aren't good at finding late bloomers either, or at least not good at keeping them.

They are but they were drafted by the Kings. He acknowledged that they didn’t all become successful players with the Kings… BUT the scouts successfully identified them as NHL talent. I’m obviously not quoting him but the discussion was around assessing how good the drafting (scouting) is. Where they break through is irrelevant for the context of the discussion.

Development and deployment is a whole other piece.

 

[Statto]

Wonder if the Kings are going to make any offers for Askarov. I know the Kings now have some intriguing goaltender options in the pipeline now with Portillo, George, and Slukynsky but Askarov is a true blue chip goaltending prospect that could help them this season and could be a top 10 goalie for the next 10-15 years.

You'd then have Byfield, Clarke, and Askarov to build around (ideally that's your 1C, 1D, and 1G for the next 10 years if all 3 live up to the hype).

I'd be really interested in knowing Nashville's asking price. They don't have a ton of leverage and while Askarov is definitely an elite goaltending prospect he's still unproven and goalies are unpredictable so I doubt the price tag would be the same as a blue chip center or D prospect.

Would Portillo, Kaliyev, and a 3rd round pick get it done? Might seem like an underwhelming offer but Portillo's a very good goaltending prospect, Kaliyev is talented but needs a change of scenery, and a 3rd round pick is solid.

I'd probably even be willing to bump that 3rd round pick to a 2nd round pick if needed. Then Rittich or Kuemper would likely end up in the AHL.

I think it’s probably not enough. I’d personally include Hammer (can’t spell his real name without checking) as Askarov effectively blocks him (with George turning pro first also). If Askarov is going to be our no1 for 10 years then he likely won’t sign when he leaves college. All hypothetical though as I think it’s very unlikely. Our pipeline looks good and has a good age distribution.

 

[Herby]

Wonder if the Kings are going to make any offers for Askarov. I know the Kings now have some intriguing goaltender options in the pipeline now with Portillo, George, and Slukynsky but Askarov is a true blue chip goaltending prospect that could help them this season and could be a top 10 goalie for the next 10-15 years.

You'd then have Byfield, Clarke, and Askarov to build around (ideally that's your 1C, 1D, and 1G for the next 10 years if all 3 live up to the hype).

I'd be really interested in knowing Nashville's asking price. They don't have a ton of leverage and while Askarov is definitely an elite goaltending prospect he's still unproven and goalies are unpredictable so I doubt the price tag would be the same as a blue chip center or D prospect.

Would Portillo, Kaliyev, and a 3rd round pick get it done? Might seem like an underwhelming offer but Portillo's a very good goaltending prospect, Kaliyev is talented but needs a change of scenery, and a 3rd round pick is solid.

I'd probably even be willing to bump that 3rd round pick to a 2nd round pick if needed. Then Rittich or Kuemper would likely end up in the AHL.

You are making an offer assuming it's a binary negotiation (saying Nashville has no leverage). There are 30 other teams in the NHL, this for a former top pick goaltender who has been very good in the AHL. We just saw today what McGroarty brought back to Winnipeg, that would be a similar situation here.

Even if only 8 teams were interested, you don't think anyone is going to top that offer?

Portillo turns 24 years old next week, if Nashville has no room for Askarov (a much better prosopect) for the next two years, they also won't have room for Portillo, so that means Portillo wouldn't be involved in their plans until his age 26 season. Why would they make the centerpiece of the return an older and less talented goaltender?

Kaliyev has no value at all, look at the return that Podkolzin brought, that is the return that Arty would bring (at best). The Kings completely destroyed this players value with their ridiculous (but predictable) player development and deployment strategies.

 

[KopitarGOAT420]

You are making an offer assuming it's a binary negotiation (saying Nashville has no leverage). There are 30 other teams in the NHL, this for a former top pick goaltender who has been very good in the AHL. We just saw today what McGroarty brought back to Winnipeg, that would be a similar situation here.

Even if only 8 teams were interested, you don't think anyone is going to top that offer?

Portillo turns 24 years old next week, if Nashville has no room for Askarov (a much better prosopect) for the next two years, they also won't have room for Portillo, so that means Portillo wouldn't be involved in their plans until his age 26 season. Why would they make the centerpiece of the return an older and less talented goaltender?

Kaliyev has no value at all, look at the return that Podkolzin brought, that is the return that Arty would bring (at best). The Kings completely destroyed this players value with their ridiculous (but predictable) player development and deployment strategies.

Nah I'm just making an offer that I think would be relatively fair value. It might be a little bit of a low-ball and sure there could be other teams that offer more but I'm just saying if I'm the Kings that's an offer I'd throw out there.

Maybe a 2nd rounder, Slukynsky, and another prospect instead? Not sure if I'd love giving up that much but that's probably pretty fair value too.

 

[tigermask48]

They are but they were drafted by the Kings. He acknowledged that they didn’t all become successful players with the Kings… BUT the scouts successfully identified them as NHL talent. I’m obviously not quoting him but the discussion was around assessing how good the drafting (scouting) is. Where they break through is irrelevant for the context of the discussion.

Development and deployment is a whole other piece.

If that's the case then I hope the team is equally eager to take responsibility and credit for picks like Kupari, Turcotte, Gibson, Zykov, and Jack Hughes.
Somehow I doubt that though.

 

[Herby]

Using "Games Played" is a ridiculous metric to judge drafting results for 1st round picks. If you want to use it for picks beyond the Top 40 that is fine, but guys taken with high picks playing some arbitrary number of games as depth pieces (which could be the case with Bjornfot, Turcotte and Kupari) doesn't make them picks to be proud of. In a results oriented business these were three terrible picks, and while I criticize development and deployment as much as anyone, these guys would have been terrible picks regardless of how they were developed. They were evaluation mistakes, and even if you want to argue "everyone was wrong", they were evaluation mistakes none-the-less.

Also, one area that I think people greatly overlook is the lack of ability to find the real homerun picks, and just look at blaming Blake, Emerson and Surf Nutz as to why the ones they made failed. Do I expect the Kings to hit homeruns on every pick? No, but in the 1st round they have been in the position to draft Nick Suzuki, Matt Boldy, Cole Caufield, Dylan Cozens, Moritz Seider, Tim Stutzle and didn't come up with any of them. Again, not expecting to bat 1.000, and I'll give the Kings credit for their drafting outside of Round 1, but in the 1st round the results have been very poor based on expectations of where they were picking.

 

[Schrute farms]

Nah I'm just making an offer that I think would be relatively fair value.

No -- you are not.

(FYI: hooking up with two "5"s in the same day doesn't equate to hooking up with a "10")

 

[Herby]

Nah I'm just making an offer that I think would be relatively fair value. It might be a little bit of a low-ball and sure there could be other teams that offer more

Value is based on what a market is willing to pay. And hey, you aren't the first person to just look at it with tunnel vision, look no further than some of the hypothetical offers for JT Miller when it was rumored he might be on the block a couple of years ago.

Would you trade Clarke for a similar package that you proposed? Neither would I. Clarke and Askarov probably have similar values. Two immense talents that have fallen victim to organizations with archaic views on player development.

 

[tigermask48]

Using "Games Played" is a ridiculous metric to judge drafting results for 1st round picks. If you want to use it for picks beyond the Top 40 that is fine, but guys taken with high picks playing some arbitrary number of games as depth pieces (which could be the case with Bjornfot, Turcotte and Kupari) doesn't make them picks to be proud of. In a results oriented business these were three terrible picks, and while I criticize development and deployment as much as anyone, these guys would have been terrible picks regardless of how they were developed. They were evaluation mistakes, and even if you want to argue "everyone was wrong", they were evaluation mistakes none-the-less.

Also, one area that I think people greatly overlook is the lack of ability to find the real homerun picks, and just look at blaming Blake, Emerson and Surf Nutz as to why the ones they made failed. Do I expect the Kings to hit homeruns on every pick? No, but in the 1st round they have been in the position to draft Nick Suzuki, Matt Boldy, Cole Caufield, Dylan Cozens, Moritz Seider, Tim Stutzle and didn't come up with any of them. Again, not expecting to bat 1.000, and I'll give the Kings credit for their drafting outside of Round 1, but in the 1st round the results have been very poor based on expectations of where they were picking.

These evaluation mistakes is why I find it so laughable when they try to take credit for an Erik Cernak, or Jacob Middleton. Yeah, you drafted the player... and then failed to recognize what was there.
You don't now get to push Tampa, and San Jose out of the way going "but we found him first!"

 

[Raccoon Jesus]

I know we've been mentioning his name in passing but Ryan Johansen makes Pierre Luc Dubois look like Adam Deadmarsh

 

[Statto]

These evaluation mistakes is why I find it so laughable when they try to take credit for an Erik Cernak, or Jacob Middleton. Yeah, you drafted the player... and then failed to recognize what was there.
You don't now get to push Tampa, and San Jose out of the way going "but we found him first!"

You do know that this model isn’t actually specific to LA? The difference is simply using 7 instead of 5 years (IIRC some other teams use 7). So by all means criticise the model that everyone uses, but it’s not just LA that gives themselves credit for Cernak it’s the model that gets used, so all the teams would..

I agree btw that games played is an incredibly crude metric but as a simple assessment it useful. I agree it tells you more about the effectiveness of late drafting and let’s be clear the conversation in the podcast was much more tilted in that direction.

It’s not that scouting failed to recognize anything either in Cernak. They obviously did, that ball got dropped after the scouting department did their thing. Obviously the big picture of organizational performance here is significantly more important BUT the question he was answering was evaluating DRAFT performance not development or development.

I see and recognize all the issues and the scouting dept isn’t perfect BUT it feels like people are looking to be outraged. He never pretended there weren’t misses, plus we all know Blake overruled scouting with Turcotte. Sure Kupari was a miss and I personally don’t consider the injury to be a massive mitigation, but show me a team that doesn’t ever miss in the 1st round.

 

[GoldenBearHockey]

You do know that this model isn’t actually specific to LA. The difference is simply using 7 instead of 5 years (IIRC some other teams use 7). So by all means criticise the model that everyone uses, but it’s not just LA that gives themselves credit for Cernak it’s the model that gets used, so all the teams would..

I agree btw that games played is an incredibly crude metric but as a simple assessment it useful. I agree it tells you more about the effectiveness of late drafting and let’s be clear the conversation in the podcast was much more tilted in that direction.

It’s not that scouting failed to recognize anything either in Cernak. They obviously did, that ball got dropped after the scouting department did their thing. Obviously the big picture of organizational performance here is significantly more important BUT the question he was answering was evaluating DRAFT performance not development or development.

I see and recognize all the issues and the scouting dept isn’t perfect BUT it feels like people are looking to be outraged. He never pretended there weren’t misses, plus we all know Blake overruled scouting with Turcotte. Sure Kupari was a miss and I personally don’t consider the injury to be a massive mitigation, but show me a team that doesn’t ever miss in the 1st round.

Nailed this board in 8 f***ing words.......very succinct.

 

[KINGS17]

These evaluation mistakes is why I find it so laughable when they try to take credit for an Erik Cernak, or Jacob Middleton. Yeah, you drafted the player... and then failed to recognize what was there.
You don't now get to push Tampa, and San Jose out of the way going "but we found him first!"

I think in Cernak's case Dean knew what he had, but he had to give to get in the Bishop trade. Big mistake Deano.

 

[Raccoon Jesus]

I don't think they had real doubts about Cernak's abilities, only his personality

And I've said frequently I think their drafting as a whole is baller as hell and you can measure that any number of ways...the problems are 1. the first round and 2......everything after drafting. Both problems associated with identifying/evaluating, drafting, and developing blue-chip high-end offensive talent.

These guys wouldn't know a game changing offensive player if he landed in their laps, nor would they know how to develop/deploy them, which is why they go OMG KEVIN FIALA, OMG PIERRE LUC DUBOIS, OMG GRAVEKEEPER ILYA KOVALCHUK year after year.

 

[Sol]

It’s been a week or so but I need to check in and restate that I hate everything about this organization and want them to crash and burn.

Enjoy your Friday night.

PS if any of you dorks start climaxing over training camp over some random ass players who will never be anything. You will go 1 on 1 with the undertaker.

 

[Lt Dan]

PS if any of you dorks start climaxing over training camp over some random ass players who will never be anything

too late

 

[Sol]

too late

View attachment 902829

 

[King'sPawn]

Preview for Rookie Camp

Kings Roster Preview for 2024 Rookie Faceoff in LA, Plus More Camp Info

mayorsmanor.com

 

[funky]

I think in Cernak's case Dean knew what he had, but he had to give to get in the Bishop trade. Big mistake Deano.

I don’t think so, in one of the podcasts in the last year or so Yank said they thought he played scared or chicken or something because of some comments he made which basically blacklisted him and got him traded. If I remember correctly, he admit they made a mistake and acknowledged it could’ve been a misinterpretation of what the kid was saying.

 

[Surf Nutz]

do we know that?

I've got the team with $4,246,666 in cap space but that's with the 12 forwards, 6 defensemen and 2 goalies that are widely considered "locks"

It doesn't account for Kaliyev or extra forwards or defensemen.

Burroughs and Englund are each $1M ish

Fagemo is $775k, Kaliyev is TBD

I would caution anyone to start acting as if they know exactly how much cap space the Kings will have to negotiate just yet.

Can he even play?

Three teams have moved on or tried to move on from him in the last like 14 months.

I don't even think it's clear that he's capable of playing right now or what his status is.


I have strong reservations about that projection. For multiple reasons not the least of which is Kaliyev's cap hit.

Line combos somewhat up in the air, I would think.

I would like to see similar with Jeannot given a shot with Kempe and Kopitar. Laffy with Dault and Mo.