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Speculation: Fire Rob Blake Blow it Up Offseason Thread (update: Robitaille, Blake and Hiller stay)

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Statto said:
Not crap but heavily over used, especially by the media fans. Remember it was used behind the scenes before there was general awareness. Obviously it’s evolved and it definitely became too fashionable but it definitely has a place, when used in balanced fashion.
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Not only that, but frankly, analytics is just restructuring observable data.

Oh my, a player scored 6 goals while playing 360 minutes. He has 1.0 goals/60.

Someone has 600 shot attempts from his team when he's on the ice and 400 shot attempts when he's off the ice. He has a CF% of 60.

It's all data just broken down.

Yannetti made a reference to George in the U18 final. He said George made saves on the PK that stopped the game from being 7-2. Canada came back to win.

That's observable. If it can be observed it can be counted. And if it can be counted, you can draw analytics. It's unclear what analytics they used, but heck, maybe they track how many shots Team Canada took after a save on a high-danger chance, to look at one aspect of momentum. Maybe they track turnovers from hits, to see if a player is just hitting for the fun of it or if more often than not it returns possession to the team, making him a more effective forechecker. We don't know.

If you're bored you can track the number of shits you take a week, and then see a doctor if the number continues to trend upward or downward at an alarming level.

There's no doubt analytics get misused in arguments, and too much weight gets put on some. But frankly, people just look at analytics as some sort of boogeyman, as if all who compile this data don't understand the game. It's not a replacement to actually watching the players.
 
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Omni Owl said:
Brisebois not re-signing Stamkos is unforgivable, and now he's strengthening another team in the general region. Nashville's management consistently impresses me. I definitely wanted Stamkos here, he would've been the ideal mentor for the youth and a proven Cup winner.

Teams that are obviously worse than us in the front office department are Buffalo, Columbus, and arguably Ottawa, off the top of my head. We're definitely up there though, I'm just hoping Blake is a fast learner and can evolve. The jettison of PLD proves he might be.
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As if Stamkos was ever going to come to LA with a 13% state income tax while the rate in Tennessee is 0%. Players pay attention to this. The last 4 Cup winners are teams playing in states with no income tax. Coincidence? I think not.
 
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Piston said:
As if Stamkos was ever going to come to LA with a 13% state income tax while the rate in Tennessee is 0%. Players pay attention to this. The last 4 Cup winners are teams playing in states with no income tax. Coincidence? I think not.
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Im actually a little surprised nashville hasn't found a way to get over the hump. It's got a lot athletes on either end of their careers would theoretically want.
 
tbrown33 said:
A must read from Rosen

t.co

“Getting uncomfortable”? Kings executives are preaching it, not practicing it

Sometimes it’s good to read internet message boards.
t.co t.co
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Glad Rosen is on here in some capacity. Really enjoyed his takes on the Kings during his time here.

Raccoon Jesus said:
Im actually a little surprised nashville hasn't found a way to get over the hump. It's got a lot athletes on either end of their careers would theoretically want.
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Could be coming soon with the players they added.
 
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SmytheKing said:
Eh...

If you mean they're "ruining sports" because teams and orgs are too entrenched in playing systems with no deviation, I might not disagree. It's more chess match than fluid adjust as you're flying type of games which can be more fun typically.

But analytics aren't crap by any measure. The way people here might use them is sure...but the science of them? What you can use them for or find out about a player with them? Nah. They're pretty valuable.

I'm just making up an example here, but consider this scenario:

The Kings see that Byfield isn't finishing his forechecks at the same rate over the past 10 games as he was in the previous 10. They dig into it and see that in the previous 10 games the Kings had a faster zone entry because their zone exits were quicker. They dig further and see that when Matt Roy was the primary facilitator of the exit, they were able to gain the neutral zone faster than when Gavrikov is. So, now they've determined that it's not as much Byfield as it is their zone exits that are the cause of this. You can start to find a way to make Roy be the primary passer out of the zone.

Alternatively, opposing teams have access to this information as well and say, "well to slow down Byfield we need to make sure Gavrikov is the guy who has the puck".

Obviously this is all a made up situation and is by no means comprehensive, but it's a quick and dirty example of what teams can glean from a variety of factors and try to make adjustments to give them the best shot at winning. Does that make the game fun when it's just wrap it to the left and dump it to the right over and over again? No probably not. But does it matter really if you win the Cup?
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Think about the time it takes to collect enough data to form a confident opinion. How far does the juice need to vary from 50% in order to be worth the squeeze? Then how do you earn the trust of an organization to have your opinion be taken seriously? Then how much must a coach decide that your opinion, even if correct, actually matters enough to make a change in their approach?

Let's say that Mr. X wins 58% of his 50/50 battles. Is that enough to not consider why? What if the 42% of losses see a considerable amount of engagements near the end of a shift? Or if they occur more at home or on the road? In the second period with the long change? With or without a lead? Against the success rate of who as the opponent? What system do they use? Are they bigger, smaller, does handedness have an effect?

Where do you feel comfortable enough to stop? There is always more data.

Let's say Mr. X wins that vast majority of pucks when facing left shooters in the offensive zone on the road? Does that mean you want a coach sitting there thinking that "shit, his shift is next but he is going up against a righty on a center ice draw. I better make a change".

There are 18 skaters on both sides, NOBODY needs that much info. It won't change anything. All a coach needs is to trust a player, and that trust is built thru experience and communication - nothing that needs to be quantified.

The problem is relying on that data lazily to scout the opposition instead of taking the time to get a simpler understanding. It's a problem to use data to project kids whose value is away from the quantifiable. We are already seeing fewer and fewer players who get by on guile and persistence.

Humanity hasn't changed, those guys are still there, but their perceived value is artificially lowered due to not fitting into the fashionable rages. It manifests itself in the scarcity of those individuals with those traits ending up with Edmundson type deals.
 
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Piston said:
As if Stamkos was ever going to come to LA with a 13% state income tax while the rate in Tennessee is 0%. Players pay attention to this. The last 4 Cup winners are teams playing in states with no income tax. Coincidence? I think not.
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That is a big factor for sure , there are so many issues with California at this time I think that factors in to, not to mention I'd also want sound management and solid direction which at this moment they dont have. You can't count on the weather as your main selling point and over paying people to play here is not a great recipe.
 
bland said:
Let's say that Mr. X wins 58% of his 50/50 battles. Is that enough to not consider why? What if the 42% of losses see a considerable amount of engagements near the end of a shift? Or if they occur more at home or on the road? In the second period with the long change? With or without a lead? Against the success rate of who as the opponent? What system do they use? Are they bigger, smaller, does handedness have an effect?
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You wouldn't think there would be value in knowing a guy wins 60% of his battles in the east corner of the ozone but only 25% in the west corner of the dzone?

bland said:
Let's say Mr. X wins that vast majority of pucks when facing left shooters in the offensive zone on the road? Does that mean you want a coach sitting there thinking that "shit, his shift is next but he is going up against a righty on a center ice draw. I better make a change".
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You wouldn't think there would be value, with 5 seconds left, in knowing a guy is winning 3/4 of his faceoffs vs lefties while the guy currently there is winning 20%?
 
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bland said:
Where do you feel comfortable enough to stop? There is always more data.
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You probably don't, just like you probably don't stop working on your edges or shot. You continually learn and refine.

YOu're starting to get it and why people do it as a full-time career now.

But to get to your main points of 'no one needs that much data' I mean I agree that i'ts not gonna get overmanaged, you're still going to just raw play your best players in most situations that call for it. But the whole idea is that you DO sort through those mountains and mountains of shit for the golden gems that will pay dividends when it matters.

and if anything you should be thrilled as it appears the Kings mostly disregard that data and rely on 'good ol boy' brains.

Edit: i'll go one further and I would bet you would actually nerd out on some of the data, i practically guarantee even just using the example above they look at not just lefties and righties on draw but at forehand/backhand grip, where on the stick, etc.
 
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Piston said:
As if Stamkos was ever going to come to LA with a 13% state income tax while the rate in Tennessee is 0%. Players pay attention to this. The last 4 Cup winners are teams playing in states with no income tax. Coincidence? I think not.
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Yes. It’s a coincidence. Otherwise the panthers would have not been a largely bad franchise for the past 30 years. Same with Tampa. Nashville hasn’t ever won anything.

Teams win the cup because the organizations draft, trade, and develop well. Like Boston did. Like the kings did. Like Detroit did. Like the penguins did.

The tax thing is just such a minor issue that seems to have taken on a life of its own with some very specific segments of people…and it’s definitely not limited to where free agents go in their favorite sports.
 
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Raccoon Jesus said:
You wouldn't think there would be value in knowing a guy wins 60% of his battles in the east corner of the ozone but only 25% in the west corner of the dzone?



You wouldn't think there would be value, with 5 seconds left, in knowing a guy is winning 3/4 of his faceoffs vs lefties while the guy currently there is winning 20%?
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I’m also a little surprised by his feelings on this to the degree that he seems to discount all of it. I swear he also thought the league had figured out quick once that scouting report was leaked about him that basically was about how shooting high on him has a higher success rate.

Pretty sure teams weren’t just guessing on that and they had quantifiable data.
 
KingsHockey24 said:
Bring back Rich Hammond and Jon Rosen full time and then launch The Mayor, Dennis Bernstein, Zach Dooley, and Jesse Cohen into space.
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Not entirely fair

Jesse is a stand up guy. Like the rest of us, he can't picky bash his employer and realize that Rosen couldn't have written this article of he was still a Kings employee. Jesse is giving us the best kings coverage since hockey's future used to have dedicated reporters. I learn more about the prospects from Jesse than I do from any other "media"

And even if Jesse hasn't asked my creative question in a while. I'd still be the Han Solo if he ever attached the death star

fist-bump-gif-file-416kb-g115r6epmv6b424u.gif



the others...
I don't mind Bernstein.
The Mayor is a petulant child.

I am still deciding if Dooley is an actual human or if he is really a robot who is a sleeper terminator ready end humanity when the switch is flipped
 
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Lt Dan said:
Not entirely fair

Jesse is a stand up guy. Like the rest of us, he can't picky bash his employer and realize that Rosen couldn't have written this article of he was still a Kings employee. Jesse is giving us the best kings coverage since hockey's future used to have dedicated reporters. I learn more about the prospects from Jesse than I do from any other "media"

And even if Jesse hasn't asked my creative question in a while. I'd still be the Han Solo if he ever attached the death star

fist-bump-gif-file-416kb-g115r6epmv6b424u.gif



the others...
I don't mind Bernstein.
The Mayor is a petulant child.

I am still deciding if Dooley is an actual human or if he is really a robot who is a sleeper terminator ready end humanity when the switch is flipped
Click to expand...
Helene Elliott is a GOAT as well.

Forgot to mention her the first time.
 
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