Speculation: Fire Rob Blake Blow it Up Offseason Thread (update: Robitaille, Blake and Hiller stay)

[All The Kings Men]

The Lucic trade belongs in a completely different category than every other trade Lombardi made.

It's not even close to the Sekera and Bishop trades.

The Lucic trade was horrible.

 

[SmytheKing]

I dont think even Rob Blake knows what Rob Blake is 'trying to do'. he's changed course far too many times to have any vision in the style or clarity of Lombardi

I absolutely do not disagree in the slightest.

 

[SmytheKing]

Completely, respectfully disagree. Reinhart and Stamkos were the top UFAs last year. Both signed in no income tax states. The Kings would have had to pay Reinhart $10mm just to match Florida's offer when you figure in taxes ($8,625,000/(1-.13)). Players are taxed in the state where the game is played- Reinhart plays over half his games on a $0 income tax state. On what planet are the Kings getting Gustav Forsling for the $5.75mm Florida is paying him? Stamkos and Marschesault both went to Nashville after playing in $0 income tax states. Next to the chance to win the Cup, AFTER TAX income is the biggest driver of UFA decisions. That trumps nice weather every single time. Want more proof? Why has no Canadian team won the Cup in 30+ years? Heck, only 1 Canadian-based team has even made the finals in quite a while. In baseball with no salary Cap, the big market teams can offer a lot more money to offset higher taxes. In the NHL with finite dollars to dole out, taxes matter, a lot. Ask yourself. why did Tkachuk want out of hockey-mad Calgary and immediately sign long term in Florida? This is an emerging theme that will increasingly dominate competitiveness in the NHL.

1. Canadian players are paid in US Dollars so the $10 million dollars translates to $13 million Canadian right now. The reason they haven't won a cup on 30 years is because there's only been six of them for about 20 of those years and when you represent 25% of the league, the odds of one of them winning is smaller. Should I name all of the US based teams with low/no income tax that also haven't won the cup in the last 30 years?

2. Tkachuk wanted out of Calgary because he hated Daryl Sutter and said it was him or me and they chose Sutter. Also, his contract was up and no way was Florida giving up what they were giving up without assurances that a contract would be in place and signed.

3. I don't watch enough of Florida to comment on Forsling but is he worth the same salary as a Quinn Hughes? A Heiskenan? Close to a Makar or a Fox? Is he worth $2-3 million a year more than a Gavrikov? $4 million more than a Mikey Anderson? That's the suggestion you're making regarding what the Kings would have to pay him and what the market is showing who the players making that much are.

As I've stated before, I'm sure taxes play a factor, I just don't believe it to be the biggest one or even a driver. It's a "well these two teams are pursuing me and one plays a system I like and has had a lot of recent success. As a nice bonus the taxes are lower too."

We can't both demand that we want players who don't just want to come here because of the weather but also lament the fact that we aren't getting players because they don't like our tax structure. IF a player is choosing a team based on the fact that they will get paid more, why do you want that guy?

 

[Johnny Utah]

The Lucic trade belongs in a completely different category than every other trade Lombardi made.

It's not even close to the Sekera and Bishop trades.

The Lucic trade was horrible.

I am a fan of Lucic, but boy that was a lot of assets to give up and thank god Lombardi didn't match that contract Edmonton offered.

You can argue though Cernak would be more valuable now that any of the assets in the Lucic deal, unless of course the Kings drafted Barzal, as they mentioned they would have with that pick.

 

[All The Kings Men]

For me part of evaluating a trade is looking at what you can afford in any given moment.


If I'm sitting down to a $5 black jack table with a stack of chips and I immediately draw a pair of 8s I know I can and should split them.


If I'm down to my last $50 at a $50 black jack table and I draw a pair of 8s and in order to split I need to buy more chips... even if it's "the right move" from a gambling perspective it's NOT the right move for my night or my economics.

Trading the haul that they did for Lucic in that moment COULD have been a good move if they theoretically won the Cup that season

BUT

given the state of the franchise, the cap situation, the prospect pool and the NHL Currency available to the franchise... they should have walked away from that bet.

It was the worst trade in a very long time and there's only one trade since then that comes close to competing with it (tho it may ultimately surpass it)

 

[Statto]

Analytics are absolutely terrible for sports, they breed a game that shows less variety and creativity than ever. Just watch euro football these days and you will realize it. The worst part is that while it is understandable (if often stupid) to tell a pro player not to take long shots or attack more down the right side because numbers show he can't dribble to the left as well, the idiot analytics-influenced coaches do this kind of shit in juniors too. So you have young developing kids instructed to all play the same cookie-cutter game stats nerd claim is the right way to play. Only two touches on the ball max, no dribbling, no long shots, so the game ends up producing the same boring player over and over again in a self-replicating loop. Analytics have been absolutely terrible for sports and I have never been more bored watching team sports because of it. The real destruction caused by analytics takes place with developing players, it sucks the creativity and individual expression out of the player. Analytics is really more like a cult, closer to a political system rather than anything proven beyond doubt to actually help win championships, but it's spread is entirely comparable to a cult.

Yet the Premier League has never been better in terms of end product… lots of goals, lots of creativity… etc.

 

[Sol]

A must read from Rosen

“Getting uncomfortable”? Kings executives are preaching it, not practicing it

Sometimes it’s good to read internet message boards.

t.co

It's simple. We praise Jonny. Dude has been nothing but honest while providing great information and analysis. No other writers come close. This is why I stop listening to any Kings media or reading any of that drivel. "We were right thur" in a thousand different formations.

 

[Sol]

The PLD trade is definitely worse in context. I can understand the Lucic trade because I can imagine its incredibly difficult maintaining the aura of success when you're in such uncharted waters. I can understand what DL's motive what was. We all can which is what I think made him really good. We knew what he was doing and why he was doing it.

I cant for the life of me understand what the f*** he was thinking bringing in PLD. We hadn't even tried Byfield at center and he traded for one. I think you blow your load on a center when you dont have any centers at all.

And lets be honest and not fanboy for once.

Vilardi was much better than Byfield the time the trade happened which made no sense to me why they'd trade such an elite player who dominated around the net.

Byfield was the center that was supposed to be a center by now and he wasn't so it would make sense in context if they traded Byfield for PLD. Realistically.

The PLD trade was awful the day it happened and it made no sense.

I think if context is the word im seeing thrown around here then undoubtedly the PLD trade is worse because Lombardi was trying to maintain a winner which is very hard, vs Blake who cannot get out of the first round.

 

[Nasti]

Great point by Rosen about how there was no one in the room who disagreed that PLD would help the team. What does that tell you about everyone in the room?

As for Lombardi, he should have been given the chance to rebuild. I don’t care what bad trades were made. He deserved the benefit of the doubt. It’s clear Luc was in ownership’s ears telling them he knew how to continue generating playoff revenue. Yes, the direction needed to be changed, but unfortunately, Luc came in and changed the culture again.

 

[Sol]

Sorry for my third in sequence post, the one part of Rosen's article

"Hiller has tremendous respect of the players; Drew Doughty was among those to advocate for the team to ditch the “interim” tag."

For the life of me, why the f*** do our dumb f***ing vets have so much f***ing say in what the Kings do.

I have been at the point that I cant wait for Kopitar and Doughty to be gone. Im sick and tired of their bullshit.

 

[Telos]

I wish Rosen's subscription reporting took off because he is the reporter we need most of all regarding this team. Fantastic article.

I love the anecdote about Lombardi requiring three players on each Kings advertisement and not only one, and him not wanting to draft Alzner because of the shoes he was wearing and to change the “Starbucks and sandals” Kings identity. f*** I miss Lombardi so f***ing much...

I like the nods and information regarding Hiller. It sounds like he is a good, respected, coach and he is able to get a lot out of each player; but I am also a little concerned about the players preferring him. There are many approaches of course, you can go the Sutter route and make everyone uncomfortable or you can go the Paul Maurice route and be a bit more likable. At this point, I am leaning towards uncomfortable, especially if Kopi and Drew want a winning culture here before their twilight...

I also love him pointing out something that I've been pretty annoyed with over the last couple of years and that's Blake's original vision was to create an offensively exciting team based on speed and skill who were to just forcefully outscore their opponent. He wanted an old San Jose or a Colorado Avalance approach and said players prefer and have more fun playing that way. It sounds like a system made for guys like Fiala, but we've become almost the exact opposite.

The contrast drawn between Lombardi nixing the Clifford for Gagner trade in 2014 to Luc sitting there in a room with his entire hockey operations staff all in agreement that PLD would help the team without dissent. This team is fundamentally broken and rudderless and it starts at the top. Blake and Luc are in overtime now and the score isn't even tied - they are getting blown out. They've gotta go no matter what and hopefully AEG realizes that.

 

[All The Kings Men]

 

[Ziggy Stardust]

We are now in the era of Unserious Hockey.

 

[Johnny Utah]

Great point by Rosen about how there was no one in the room who disagreed that PLD would help the team. What does that tell you about everyone in the room?

As for Lombardi, he should have been given the chance to rebuild. I don’t care what bad trades were made. He deserved the benefit of the doubt. It’s clear Luc was in ownership’s ears telling them he knew how to continue generating playoff revenue. Yes, the direction needed to be changed, but unfortunately, Luc came in and changed the culture again.

Lombardi should have been given the chance BUT he refused to fire Sutter. He is not the ideal rebuilding coach.

 

[FrozenKing18]

I wish Rosen's subscription reporting took off because he is the reporter we need most of all regarding this team. Fantastic article.

I love the anecdote about Lombardi requiring three players on each Kings advertisement and not only one, and him not wanting to draft Alzner because of the shoes he was wearing and to change the “Starbucks and sandals” Kings identity. f*** I miss Lombardi so f***ing much...

I like the nods and information regarding Hiller. It sounds like he is a good, respected, coach and he is able to get a lot out of each player; but I am also a little concerned about the players preferring him. There are many approaches of course, you can go the Sutter route and make everyone uncomfortable or you can go the Paul Maurice route and be a bit more likable. At this point, I am leaning towards uncomfortable, especially if Kopi and Drew want a winning culture here before their twilight...

I also love him pointing out something that I've been pretty annoyed with over the last couple of years and that's Blake's original vision was to create an offensively exciting team based on speed and skill who were to just forcefully outscore their opponent. He wanted an old San Jose or a Colorado Avalance approach and said players prefer and have more fun playing that way. It sounds like a system made for guys like Fiala, but we've become almost the exact opposite.

The contrast drawn between Lombardi nixing the Clifford for Gagner trade in 2014 to Luc sitting there in a room with his entire hockey operations staff all in agreement that PLD would help the team without dissent. This team is fundamentally broken and rudderless and it starts at the top. Blake and Luc are in overtime now and the score isn't even tied - they are getting blown out. They've gotta go no matter what and hopefully AEG realizes that.

Can't do that if you keep developing your goalscorers as grinders.

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Debunked lol

 

[Schrute farms]

The PLD trade was awful the day it happened and it made no sense.

This. As bad as it is now afterwards -- it was the SAME at the time of trade 12 months ago (or even when brought up as an idea beforehand). Maybe if it were simply a 2nd + AI and with no extension -- maybe you could see it (maybe). Weird, and very wrong, from the get go.

 

[theMajor]

Sorry for my third in sequence post, the one part of Rosen's article

"Hiller has tremendous respect of the players; Drew Doughty was among those to advocate for the team to ditch the “interim” tag."

For the life of me, why the f*** do our dumb f***ing vets have so much f***ing say in what the Kings do.

I have been at the point that I cant wait for Kopitar and Doughty to be gone. Im sick and tired of their bullshit.

it is pretty interesting, considering Doughty doesn't seem to be a huge fan of coaches that actually push players. apparently he and Sutter didn't get along (big surprise). I listened to this Stevens podcast bit last night and it had me cracking up



I'm ambivalent towards Hiller in general but the fact that Doughty loves him so much makes me a bit weary

 

[King'sPawn]

Rosen's article was fantastic. But he should spend more time on this forum learning from the posters who say this is all normal. Some would say he's just bitching.

 

[KINGS17]

The Lucic trade belongs in a completely different category than every other trade Lombardi made.

It's not even close to the Sekera and Bishop trades.

The Lucic trade was horrible.

I liked the Sekera trade, the Bishop trade not so much. Cernak going the other way in that deal when the Kings desperately needed to have a young defenseman join the team was a bad idea. The Kings were a team in decline. Why have Forbort and Phaneuf on the roster over Cernak?

 

[KINGS17]

Sorry for my third in sequence post, the one part of Rosen's article

"Hiller has tremendous respect of the players; Drew Doughty was among those to advocate for the team to ditch the “interim” tag."

For the life of me, why the f*** do our dumb f***ing vets have so much f***ing say in what the Kings do.

I have been at the point that I cant wait for Kopitar and Doughty to be gone. Im sick and tired of their bullshit.

It's past time for Kopitar and Doughty to be gone.

it is pretty interesting, considering Doughty doesn't seem to be a huge fan of coaches that actually push players. apparently he and Sutter didn't get along (big surprise). I listened to this Stevens podcast bit last night and it had me cracking up



I'm ambivalent towards Hiller in general but the fact that Doughty loves him so much makes me a bit weary

From what I understand, Sutter was on Doughty's ass from Day 1. Sutter didn't ride Doughty constantly, but let him know right from the start more was expected.

 

[Sol]

It's past time for Kopitar and Doughty to be gone.


From what I understand, Sutter was on Doughty's ass from Day 1. Sutter didn't ride Doughty constantly, but let him know right from the start more was expected.

Yup. I dont care how "good" they are right now. That doesn't matter at all for me. They're the exception to that standard. They're legit the reasons why the management was delusional enough to rebuild around 35 year old players at the time. I dont care how good they are now. They are the two players right now on this team that are exactly why this team is in the ground with no way up.

And shit if they're still good trade them for a first or anything.

Im so ready to be done with the Kopitar and Doughty era. Im really f***ing done with it.

They've grossly overstayed their welcome. Kings don't owe them anything. They got paid money people can't even dream about. What loyalty do they deserve? They deserve nothing. Move these guys and for f***s sake and start fresh completely.

 

[KINGS17]

Great point by Rosen about how there was no one in the room who disagreed that PLD would help the team. What does that tell you about everyone in the room?

As for Lombardi, he should have been given the chance to rebuild. I don’t care what bad trades were made. He deserved the benefit of the doubt. It’s clear Luc was in ownership’s ears telling them he knew how to continue generating playoff revenue. Yes, the direction needed to be changed, but unfortunately, Luc came in and changed the culture again.

I think Dean was going to drastically change the direction based on his last interview with Bob Miller. Luc promised he could still win with Kopitar and Doughty as the core, but that thought was delusional.

 

[JJDrums]

It’s laughable how almost every hockey publication and pundit state the kings have had one of the worst off seasons and are in line for a regression. Maybe Blake knows more. Lmao

 

[bland]

I think analytics overall have made sports better.

The NFL is much more exciting today because coaches started embracing the numbers.

This was one of the best NHL seasons of my life. If the analytics are ruining the NHL, it's kind of hard to tell.

NFL and MLB are single-event sports, and therefore much easier to breakdown.

And the quality of hockey over the past 3-4 seasons has easily been the worst of the 40+ years I have been obsessed with the sport. The game is nearly unwatchable most nights now.

 

[johnjm22]

NFL and MLB are single-event sports, and therefore much easier to breakdown.

I absolutely agree with that. Hockey is more difficult to quantify. Still doesn't mean statistics have no value which you're essentially implying.

And the quality of hockey over the past 3-4 seasons has easily been the worst of the 40+ years

This sounds like rosy retrospection to me. I highly doubt most people would agree with this.

I've been watching since 1993.

Put up a poll asking if this year was worse than dead puck era hockey.