Fire Luke Richardson

[MHO]

The Blackhawks HFB page is the top place I go to find cogent, well thought out, educated arguments over subjects much deeper than labels and semantics

 

[DisgruntledHawkFan]

You got it wrong. If teams concentrate on Bedard, he gets the puck to Hall who likes to play a north/south game. There's much more to Bedard's game - he can't be the only guy on the line who carries the puck. Ops love that. Anyway, Foligno was ineffective again last night on the first line and TT was pretty bad as well. Bedard needs better support.

Hall isn't a sniper he's a transition weapon. Like that's it. He's not a better play maker than Teuvo he's not a shooter he's not a better third wheel than Foligno he's a straight rush weapon at this point. Him and AA are redundant. Kurashev would be a much better option for Connor than either.

 

[DisgruntledHawkFan]

For the semantics garbage I'll just say that it isn't always a promotion just a fit. But if you're putting lines together you should be trying to have guys that can play a role together and work with the role in mind. Coaching 101.

Why I loved Kopecky so much. He was entirely mediocre at whatever you asked him to do. But he was never a terrible fit.

 

[statswatcher]

For the semantics garbage I'll just say that it isn't always a promotion just a fit. But if you're putting lines together you should be trying to have guys that can play a role together and work with the role in mind. Coaching 101.

Why I loved Kopecky so much. He was entirely mediocre at whatever you asked him to do. But he was never a terrible fit.

everyone wants to complain about semantics until they want to give their opinion on semantics.

 

[DisgruntledHawkFan]

everyone wants to complain about semantics until they want to give their opinion on semantics.

Oh definitely guilty.

 

[Kevin Musto]

That part is clear. The better question is who the right guy is when he's eventually replaced.

That's the problem with firing a coach mid season.

There are no good replacements.

You're looking at coaches like Mclellan and Granato... it's not a great pool to choose from

 

[TLEH]

Who? That I'm not sure of. Hiring a new guy in the mix is risky.. look at LuRich or Colliton. If you're going that route then I'm definitely in on Carle. With @MTU34 on that one.

 

[Hawkaholic]

changing lines under normal circumstances implies a promotion and demotion because under normal circumstances lines are built hierarchically with moren talented lines recieving more ice time than less talented lines. that's not all circumstances, but by and large these terms will apply.

But not every player on Line 1 on every team, recieves Line 1 mins. So, no.

 

[statswatcher]

But not every player on Line 1 on every team, recieves Line 1 mins. So, no.

my intuition is that this is the exception rather than the norm. maybe you can show me something to rethink that intuition. either way it doesn't do anything to refute the definition. you've just constructed a hypothetical circumstance where there isn't a change in playtime, and so of course there wouldn't be any promotion or demotion involved given that i've defined these terms by reference to changes in playtime. the defintion i gave implies the very conclusion you are presenting to contradict it.

 

[Kevin Musto]

Who? That I'm not sure of. Hiring a new guy in the mix is risky.. look at LuRich or Colliton. If you're going that route then I'm definitely in on Carle. With @MTU34 on that one.

This team does not need a young guy who has only coached 20 year olds.

 

[Hawkaholic]

my intuition is that this is the exception rather than the norm. maybe you can show me something to rethink that intuition. either way it doesn't do anything to refute the definition. you've just constructed a hypothetical circumstance where there isn't a change in playtime, and so of course there wouldn't be any promotion or demotion involved given that i've defined these terms by reference to changes in playtime. the defintion i gave implies the very conclusion you are presenting to contradict it.

It may not be the norm, but it does happen, where someone is put on a higher line and has the same ice time. So if Hall was put with Bedard, but gets the same amount ice time, it's not a promotion.

 

[statswatcher]

It may not be the norm, but it does happen, where someone is put on a higher line and has the same ice time. So if Hall was put with Bedard, but gets the same amount ice time, it's not a promotion.

yes, and i think that would also be phenomenally stupid in the current circumstance, but that's a completley different issue.

 

[Kevin Musto]

You can try and poach an overseas coach like Sam Hallam, but at the end of the day this team needs a guy who is a proven winner in the NHL.

Those guys aren't available right now.

 

[TLEH]

This team does not need a young guy who has only coached 20 year olds.

I tend to agree, but if you ARE going that route then Carle is the guy.

Todd Nelson? Brad Lauer? Jay Woodcroft? Jay Leach? Steve Spott?

None of those names sound that great either. Maybe Mike Sullivan gets fired or something.

 

[GIADF]

I tend to agree, but if you ARE going that route then Carle is the guy.

Todd Nelson? Brad Lauer? Jay Woodcroft? Jay Leach? Steve Spott?

None of those names sound that great either. Maybe Mike Sullivan gets fired or something.

I'll switch allegiances if we hire Woodcroft.

 

[Mrfenn92]

If they move on from Richardson, they’ll promote Sorensen

 

[WarriorofTime]

It'd be nice if Carle was ever like an NHL Assistant or AHL Coach or something... College to Pros is very different, but I guess if you're going to take a homerun swing you may as well try it.

 

[belfour30]

You can try and poach an overseas coach like Sam Hallam, but at the end of the day this team needs a guy who is a proven winner in the NHL.

Those guys aren't available right now.

Woah Black Betty.......Sam Hallam

 

[Kevin Musto]

I tend to agree, but if you ARE going that route then Carle is the guy.

Todd Nelson? Brad Lauer? Jay Woodcroft? Jay Leach? Steve Spott?

None of those names sound that great either. Maybe Mike Sullivan gets fired or something.

That's the sort of thing you need to hope for. A proven vet like that who gets fired, not because he's bad but because management needs a scapegoat.

If they move on from Richardson, they’ll promote Sorensen

We need Sorensen in Rockford. He's doing good work developing our prospects.

 

[TheFridge]

View attachment 920358
this is hockey reference's all strengths toi for last game against buffalo (tonight's game hasn't been put up yet, and for some reason you can't filter by even strength from here). this gives a picture of a team with a clear first line (bedard and whoever), a relatively undifferentiated and interchangable middle six, and a clear 4th line. looking that the nhl game center toi reports for tonight's game tells me that this isn't just an illusion.

Yes but we don't care about all-strengths TOI because some guys play PK, some guys play PP. You have to look at ES ice-time and by and large, outside of Bedard, the distribution of ice-time is pretty even across the top-6 and most of the top-9.

Looks like Reichel is being scratched again based on the practice lines today. Richardson needs to be fired. This is so tiring. Reichel is 6th on the team (5th amongst forwards) in xGF% this year. You play him with bums and he's still got 2 assists in 3 games. It's so dumb.

 

[statswatcher]

Yes but we don't care about all-strengths TOI because some guys play PK, some guys play PP. You have to look at ES ice-time and by and large, outside of Bedard, the distribution of ice-time is pretty even across the top-6 and most of the top-9.

last sentence of the post you are responding to. i already anticipated this objection and looked into the toi numbers that were on game center last night, and specifically saw that foligno had four more even strength minutes than hall and seven more all strength. so you are wrong. game to game, the team has a specific first line that they are expecting to play more minutes than the other forwards. the even distribution of ice time on the season so far is an artifact of low sample size and the fact that lurich is in throw shit at the wall mode to start the season.

 

[TheFridge]

last sentence of the post you are responding to. i already anticipated this objection and looked into the toi numbers that were on game center last night, and specifically saw that foligno had four more even strength minutes than hall and seven more all strength. so you are wrong. game to game, the team has a specific first line that they are expecting to play more minutes than the other forwards. the even distribution of ice time on the season so far is an artifact of low sample size and the fact that lurich is in throw shit at the wall mode to start the season.

A one game difference means I'm wrong when their season averages are the almost the same?

The absolute irony of implying the 6-game sample is too small while referencing a one game sample size is amazing btw.

 

[DisgruntledHawkFan]

This plug argument is bananas anyway. Berube Q another dozen plenty of less thought of careers than LuRich that are considered to have been good coaches. Anyone want Denis Savard at the helm? Wayne Gretzky? Knock it off yeesh insult the coach not the guy as a player.

And anyone with a full 800 game NHLPA pension could play for their time.

 

[statswatcher]

A one game difference means I'm wrong when their season averages are the almost the same?

yes, you are wrong to say that the team doesn't have a first line that plays more minutes than the other lines when in every game i've looked at the players on bedard's line played more even strength minutes than the other forwards. at best what you can say is that no one has established themselves in the first line lw spot game to game.

The absolute irony of implying the 6-game sample is too small while referencing a one game sample size is amazing btw.

what's amazing to me is when people go out of their way to miss the point entirely trying to score petty points in an internet discussion. you looked at 6 games, saw an even distribution of ice time on average, and used this as evidence that there is no difference in ice time between the lines. i showed you specific games where there were incontrovertable differences in the playing time each line got, and explained the even distribution by way of many line adjustments in a relatively short period of time. now, are you going to come up with an actual response to that explanation, or are you just going to keep typing worthless malconceived trash at me?

 

[TheFridge]

yes, you are wrong to say that the team doesn't have a first line that plays more minutes than the other lines when in every game i've looked at the players on bedard's line played more even strength minutes than the other forwards. at best what you can say is that no one has established themselves in the first line lw spot game to game.

what's amazing to me is when people go out of their way to miss the point entirely trying to score petty points in an internet discussion. you looked at 6 games, saw an even distribution of ice time on average, and used this as evidence that there is no difference in ice time between the lines. i showed you specific games where there were incontrovertable differences in the playing time each line got, and explained the even distribution by way of many line adjustments in a relatively short period of time. now, are you going to come up with an actual response to that explanation, or are you just going to keep typing worthless malconceived trash at me?

I never said there was no difference in ice-time. Your whole argument is that there is a significant enough difference in ice-time to assert that going from the 1st line from the 3rd can only ever be viewed as a "promotion" because of the increase in ice-time but the distribution of ice-time is basically the same for most of the team's top-6 at even strength and even Mikheyev, who's been on the third line for all but one game of the season, plays about as much as Hall and Bertuzzi to the point of any difference being negligible at best.