Fire Luke Richardson

[TheFridge]

sure, you've reconfigured your lineup. now, let's say that a part of that reconfiguration is that you move a guy from a lower line to a higher line. do you have a particular problem with describing this move as a "promotion" for that guy?

If someone is being "promoted", does that not also imply someone else is being "demoted"? Again, like I said originally, I can see circumstances where someone is playing well and you give them a look in the top line and that could be viewed as a promotion but generally speaking I don't think moving guys around your lineup is suggesting guys are being promoted or demoted from positions, as if on merit. You're just getting a different look.

 

[hawksfan50]

Shoukd he scratch Bedard and Teuvo for both hoibg -3 and both zero offensive points?
Why not make an example iof them?

Hey...Barfy was +1 ..but a penalty he took cost us a goal and since he is a pk dman him off hurt us in that spectrum.

Mrazek has stunk this season...unlike ladt season when he covered up the flaws ...I guess he cannot handle not getting barrage with shots ...just getting a "normal" workload and now cannot make the big sVrs to kill penalties or keep games close.

 

[statswatcher]

If someone is being "promoted", does that not also imply someone else is being "demoted"? Again, like I said originally, I can see circumstances where someone is playing well and you give them a look in the top line and that could be viewed as a promotion but generally speaking I don't think moving guys around your lineup is suggesting guys are being promoted or demoted from positions, as if on merit. You're just getting a different look.

to me, a promotion is being given more ice time, and a demotion is being given less. i don't see why merit comes into it unless you are evaluating whether the promotion/demotion was warranted.

 

[Hawkaholic]

sure, you've reconfigured your lineup. now, let's say that a part of that reconfiguration is that you move a guy from a lower line to a higher line. do you have a particular problem with describing this move as a "promotion" for that guy?

Not necessarily. If say, line 2 was gelling and you didn't want to mess with it, and the player isn't a 4th line grinder, you have 2 spots to put him. If lines 1 and 3 aren't working you could switch 2 players around, but still give them roughly the same ice time and have a rotating cast for certain moments in the game. I wouldn't necessarily say that situation is a promotion more than a line blender of sorts.

If it's a 4th line grinder coming out of nowhere or a young kid that has played well and you moved them up your lineup, that is clearly a promotion.

 

[statswatcher]

Not necessarily. If say, line 2 was gelling and you didn't want to mess with it, and the player isn't a 4th line grinder, you have 2 spots to put him. If lines 1 and 3 aren't working you could switch 2 players around, but still give them roughly the same ice time and have a rotating cast for certain moments in the game. I wouldn't necessarily say that situation is a promotion more than a line blender of sorts.

If it's a 4th line grinder coming out of nowhere or a young kid that has played well and you moved them up your lineup, that is clearly a promotion.

i don't see how you swap players on line 1 and 3 and end up with them playing the same amount of ice time unless:
a) line 1 and 3 were already playing equal amounts of ice time;
or;
b) the two players are rotating between line 1 and 3.

in case a, no one is moving up or down the lineup at all because the lines are already equivalent in playing time. in case b, you have several promotions and demotions within the same game that cancel out to being no movement at all on aggregate.

 

[TheFridge]

i don't see how you swap players on line 1 and 3 and end up with them playing the same amount of ice time unless:
a) line 1 and 3 were already playing equal amounts of ice time;
or;
b) the two players are rotating between line 1 and 3.

in case a, no one is moving up or down the lineup at all because the lines are already equivalent in playing time. in case b, you have several promotions and demotions within the same game that cancel out to being no movement at all on aggregate.

Mikheyev, Bertuzzi and Foligno all average basically the same TOI per game at even strength. Those are the three LWs. The difference at ES is pretty marginal, unless you're Bedard. Even Kurashev and Teravainen's difference boils down to shift length more than opportunity to be on the ice.

 

[Pez68]

Mikheyev, Bertuzzi and Foligno all average basically the same TOI per game at even strength. Those are the three LWs. The difference at ES is pretty marginal, unless you're Bedard. Even Kurashev and Teravainen's difference boils down to shift length more than opportunity to be on the ice.

View attachment 920348

Man are there so many problems with this list. Lol

 

[statswatcher]

Mikheyev, Bertuzzi and Foligno all average basically the same TOI per game at even strength. Those are the three LWs. The difference at ES is pretty marginal, unless you're Bedard. Even Kurashev and Teravainen's difference boils down to shift length more than opportunity to be on the ice.

View attachment 920348

this is hockey reference's all strengths toi for last game against buffalo (tonight's game hasn't been put up yet, and for some reason you can't filter by even strength from here). this gives a picture of a team with a clear first line (bedard and whoever), a relatively undifferentiated and interchangable middle six, and a clear 4th line. looking that the nhl game center toi reports for tonight's game tells me that this isn't just an illusion.

 

[DisgruntledHawkFan]

Richardson is an old school coach. Sure, lets discuss but to constantly call for him to be fired at this point is premature.
As for Hall. No, it's not a promotion. For the umpteenth time it's a move to give Bedard some breathing room on the ice and as an added bonus to get a former first round pick who has missed close to an entire season at 31 yrs old a little boost on the scoreboard and in his confidence. Hall is a north/south type of player. When he arrived in Chicago the coach rightly chose to line him up with Bedard. IMO, that experiment needs to be continued.
Why is this so difficult to understand??

Because Hall is bad without the puck and all of Bedard's good comes with the puck on his stick. Oil and water Bobby.

 

[Bubba88]

Richardson said they did talk and he took the news as well as you could have hoped. Said the right things. Blah blah blah. At the end of the day, the scratch is just unreasonable and stupid. There's no justification for it. Kurashev isn't some rookie at this point. If he had a bad game, you address it and move on and if Kurashev continues to struggle/not listen/whatever, then you scratch him to send a stronger message.

I'm with you on that one. Just wanted to point out about that part.
It just wasn't the right argument to make.

You don't scratch Kurashev in that situation and it's stupid. If it's not working, you try other combinations or bring him back up with Bedard.

Firing LuRich will happen at one point, I just don't see it happening within the next 40 games.

 

[MarotteMarauder]

Another home loss determined in great part by a crappy opening 10 minutes.

Uninspired play in front of an uninspiring coach.

Surprising? Nah

 

[Hawkaholic]

i don't see how you swap players on line 1 and 3 and end up with them playing the same amount of ice time unless:
a) line 1 and 3 were already playing equal amounts of ice time;
or;
b) the two players are rotating between line 1 and 3.

in case a, no one is moving up or down the lineup at all because the lines are already equivalent in playing time. in case b, you have several promotions and demotions within the same game that cancel out to being no movement at all on aggregate.

You must have missed the part where I said they have a rotating cast depending on the situation of the game. Its pretty easy to do.

 

[statswatcher]

You must have missed the part where I said they have a rotating cast depending on the situation of the game. Its pretty easy to do.

what you are describing would be equivalent to either a or b outlined above or some combination thereof. i also gave you a pretty simple definition above: a promotion is an increase in playing time for a given period relative to the previous, and vice versa for a demotion. i will ask again directly: do you have a problem with this definition beyond the fact that it doesn't have merit as a criteria?

this conversation is now so far removed from where it started lmao.

 

[BobbyJet]

Because Hall is bad without the puck and all of Bedard's good comes with the puck on his stick. Oil and water Bobby.

You got it wrong. If teams concentrate on Bedard, he gets the puck to Hall who likes to play a north/south game. There's much more to Bedard's game - he can't be the only guy on the line who carries the puck. Ops love that. Anyway, Foligno was ineffective again last night on the first line and TT was pretty bad as well. Bedard needs better support.

 

[Hawkaholic]

what you are describing would be equivalent to either a or b outlined above or some combination thereof. i also gave you a pretty simple definition above: a promotion is an increase in playing time for a given period relative to the previous, and vice versa for a demotion. i will ask again directly: do you have a problem with this definition beyond the fact that it doesn't have merit as a criteria?

this conversation is now so far removed from where it started lmao.

Ya, no need to discuss further on it then, other than to say, changing lines doesn't always mean a promotion or demotion, sometimes it's just a change to hope for better results.

 

[TLEH]

More and more convinced daily that he isn’t the guy.

 

[statswatcher]

Ya, no need to discuss further on it then, other than to say, changing lines doesn't always mean a promotion or demotion, sometimes it's just a change to hope for better results.

changing lines under normal circumstances implies a promotion and demotion because under normal circumstances lines are built hierarchically with moren talented lines recieving more ice time than less talented lines. that's not all circumstances, but by and large these terms will apply.

 

[hockeydoug]

So Foligno plays 21 minutes in a game down by 2 or more most of the night and the replacement for the regular who was scratched plays under 10?

Tell me that's plan for anything, I'll accept lies as good answers.

We'll get lots of hustle the next few games and all the pretty sound bites we can handle but it's smoke and mirrors because it's just a bunch of guys worried about the inevitable lockerroom shakeup type of trades and most of these vets don't want to relocate. Since KD is 100% all in on committing to the bad hire, players have to know the roster will be shaken up before the bench.

How any coach survives this many months after a record losing streak is still baffling.

 

[GIADF]

More and more convinced daily that he isn’t the guy.

That part is clear. The better question is who the right guy is when he's eventually replaced.

 

[statswatcher]

That part is clear. The better question is who the right guy is when he's eventually replaced.

that's always been my question. i sincerely doubt bedard ends up any less frustrated under the careful instruction of returning interim coach derek king.

 

[GIADF]

that's always been my question. i sincerely doubt bedard ends up any less frustrated under the careful instruction of returning interim coach derek king.

Yeah, I really don't want to go through the Derek King experience 2.0.

Once was bad enough.

 

[BobbyJet]

changing lines under normal circumstances implies a promotion and demotion because under normal circumstances lines are built hierarchically with moren talented lines recieving more ice time than less talented lines. that's not all circumstances, but by and large these terms will apply.

You're still going on about promotion/demotion? I's irrelevant for a coach trying to find the right chemistry and balance on his team.

 

[WarriorofTime]

that's always been my question. i sincerely doubt bedard ends up any less frustrated under the careful instruction of returning interim coach derek king.

Unless he's actively undermining Bedard, causing him anger and wanting to get traded out of town (note: no indications of this), then I think you just ride LuRich the entire season and make a change next season. Keep things stable for the season and give Bedard two full seasons with one guy, save some money on buyout, and hopefully the team is a bit better positioned to hire a higher end coach this summer.

 

[statswatcher]

You're still going on about promotion/demotion? I's irrelevant for a coach trying to find the right chemistry and balance on his team.

yeah, when people say things i disagree with, i express disagreement. again, you are the one that made a problem over whether or not you could describe moving hall up to line one as a promotion. if you don't want to have a conversation, don't start it. if you start it, don't complain when it isn't finished on your schedule.

 

[shakes the clown]

You got it wrong. If teams concentrate on Bedard, he gets the puck to Hall who likes to play a north/south game. There's much more to Bedard's game - he can't be the only guy on the line who carries the puck. Ops love that. Anyway, Foligno was ineffective again last night on the first line and TT was pretty bad as well. Bedard needs better support.

Hall's hockey IQ is way too low to be anywhere near Bedard.