Fire Lindy and Green, Now

[Edmonton East]

If you are blindly cherry picking a couple stats to justify Luke's play, I don't even know why you bother watching games. Or maybe you don't. Or maybe you are visually impaired.

He's young, so some of his struggles are understandable. But he's undeniably been the worst defensemen at actually playing defense this season and consistently dangerously loses the puck at the blueline in the ozone.

This is the same people on here that told me for years the Devs defense didn't need to add any size or playable grit. The definition of insanity is.....probably still trying to debate with these people.

 

[Triumph]

This is clearly differences in deployment. I know that's something that you can't wrap your head around.

But it is.

Marino and Graves were the lowest xGF% of our top 5 last year while Severson was the highest .... has everything to do with deployment.

Are you making the claim Severson 60.23% xGF% was better defensively that Marino 53.77%

Kevin Bahl 21.69 and Brendan Smith 31.76 also had a significantly better xGA than Marino 42.26......,they must've been better than Marino defensively last year?

I'm afraid some poindexter might be feeding this type of nonsense to the front office

Edit: regardless this rabbit hole started purely as a comparison of Nemec to Luke this season of on ice goals against...and the spreadsheet jockies always find a away to introduce some kind of nonsensical deviation.

Ah yes, we've reached the 'Jim doesn't understand what he's talking about, kinda flails around for a while' stage - there is a difference between rate and counting stats. The reason why Bahl and Smith have considerably lower xGA than Marino is that they played fewer games and fewer minutes in those games. When you use rate stats from last year, we get Marino 2.32, Smith 2.34 and Bahl 2.37, so they're virtually identical in xGA. xGA is only telling part of the story, of course, and yes, deployment matters, but never as much as you (or others) like to think - hard-matching in this day and age is rare.

On-ice goals against is never going to tell a great story over this few games because it is overwhelmed by luck. A goalie makes a few saves or doesn't make a few saves and now it's that guy's problem. I do think Marino has played worse this year but he has gotten absolutely no help from his goaltenders, who are letting in more than 1 out of every 9 shots against - last season they were saving slightly more than 1 out of 12.

I would trust his opinions on a comparison of Google Sheets vs Microsoft Excel more than his views on NHL defensemen.

lol, my former co-blogger said he had never seen anyone worse at Sheets/Excel than me. He now works for the Devils. So yeah, I definitely don't trust your opinions on what opinions of others to trust.

 

[forceten]

This argument is one of those where both sides are right in parts.

 

[JimEIV]

Ah yes, we've reached the 'Jim doesn't understand what he's talking about, kinda flails around for a while' stage - there is a difference between rate and counting stats. The reason why Bahl and Smith have considerably lower xGA than Marino is that they played fewer games and fewer minutes in those games. When you use rate stats from last year, we get Marino 2.32, Smith 2.34 and Bahl 2.37, so they're virtually identical in xGA. xGA is only telling part of the story, of course, and yes, deployment matters, but never as much as you (or others) like to think - hard-matching in this day and age is rare.

On-ice goals against is never going to tell a great story over this few games because it is overwhelmed by luck. A goalie makes a few saves or doesn't make a few saves and now it's that guy's problem. I do think Marino has played worse this year but he has gotten absolutely no help from his goaltenders, who are letting in more than 1 out of every 9 shots against - last season they were saving slightly more than 1 out of 12.



lol, my former co-blogger said he had never seen anyone worse at Sheets/Excel than me. He now works for the Devils. So yeah, I definitely don't trust your opinions on what opinions of others to trust.

Ah, you're more of no nonsense bare bones CSV kind of guy. True to the data no bells and whistles. I appreciate that.

 

[Triumph]

Hughes has been pretty bad lately, no doubt. They never should have asked him to play the right side, and he's obviously hitting a wall. This doesn't change how good he was earlier in the year and how obviously excellent he is going to be.

 

[JimEIV]

Hughes has been pretty bad lately, no doubt. They never should have asked him to play the right side, and he's obviously hitting a wall. This doesn't change how good he was earlier in the year and how obviously excellent he is going to be.

You mean he was good when he was playing under 20 minutes a game in his first 20 games, when he produced half of his points and Dougie was taking the hard minutes?

36 games after the first 20 he's been playing 22+ minutes....his points production and shot rate dropped and he has been bad defensively. Hughes has been bad longer than lately.

It's not his fault it's a matter of circumstances but it is the truth.

 

[Devilsfan992]

The last time Jim criticized a Hughes player this badly, he had a breakout MVP-like season. Luke the frontrunner for Norris in 2025 incoming.

 

[JimEIV]

The last time Jim criticized a Hughes player this badly, he had a breakout MVP-like season. Luke the frontrunner for Norris in 2025 incoming.

I'm a huge Luke supporter. No joke. Have been since before we selected him.

But if you're looking for reasons why the team is bad this year...look no further than the defense stacked with inexperienced players.

Lindy, the topic of this thread, is a scapegoat.

Edit: and what's even weirder, I don't like Lindy ...but if we are calling balls and strikes here, the defense is the root of this teams problems...not goaltending, not coaching, not Timo Meier or Dawson Mercer or Toffolli's turtle ass.... it's the defense that is the core problem

 

[Triumph]

You mean he was good when he was playing under 20 minutes a game in his first 20 games, when he produced half of his points and Dougie was taking the hard minutes?

36 games after the first 20 he's been playing 22+ minutes....his points production and shot rate dropped and he has been bad defensively. Hughes has been bad longer than lately.

It's not his fault it's a matter of circumstances but it is the truth.

He was playing PP1 and getting a bunch of points on a power play that was humming. Now he's stopped getting points and the power play is terrible - which do you think caused which?

 

[SteveCangialosi123]

If you are blindly cherry picking a couple stats to justify Luke's play, I don't even know why you bother watching games. Or maybe you don't. Or maybe you are visually impaired.

He's young, so some of his struggles are understandable. But he's undeniably been the worst defensemen at actually playing defense this season and consistently dangerously loses the puck at the blueline in the ozone.

This is the same people on here that told me for years the Devs defense didn't need to add any size or playable grit. The definition of insanity is.....probably still trying to debate with these people.

Definitely not remotely accurate and heavily influenced by recency. His defense isn’t there yet, but hasn’t been a problem for most of the year. It’s been way ahead of schedule, in fact. Did you miss the game the last time we played Colorado? Multiple brilliant one on one defensive plays on Mac and Rantanen.

 

[Poppy Whoa Sonnet]

I'm a huge Luke supporter. No joke. Have been since before we selected him.

But if you're looking for reasons why the team is bad this year...look no further than the defense stacked with inexperienced players.

Lindy, the topic of this thread, is a scapegoat.

Edit: and what's even weirder, I don't like Lindy ...but if we are calling balls and strikes here, the defense is the root of this teams problems...not goaltending, not coaching, not Timo Meier or Dawson Mercer or Toffolli's turtle ass.... it's the defense that is the core problem

If the team misses the playoffs and Ruff gets fired there will be a lot of blame to go around. No one will be completely blameless, including Luke Hughes who is the current whipping boy with good reason.

However I'm confident that Luke and especially Nemec would be considered bright spots when the season is considered as a whole in such a postmortem.

 

[JimEIV]

Definitely not remotely accurate and heavily influenced by recency. His defense isn’t there yet, but hasn’t been a problem for most of the year. It’s been way ahead of schedule, in fact. Did you miss the game the last time we played Colorado? Multiple brilliant one on one defensive plays on Mac and Rantanen.

But that's the way it typically goes for good young rookies.

One night can look like brilliance, the next falling over drunk in an alley.

Hell it can even be from shift to shift.

Now times that by 3 or 4 inexperienced defensemen we were forced to use this season.

With that, I'm giving coaching a pass.

 

[My3Sons]

I'm a huge Luke supporter. No joke. Have been since before we selected him.

But if you're looking for reasons why the team is bad this year...look no further than the defense stacked with inexperienced players.

Lindy, the topic of this thread, is a scapegoat.

Edit: and what's even weirder, I don't like Lindy ...but if we are calling balls and strikes here, the defense is the root of this teams problems...not goaltending, not coaching, not Timo Meier or Dawson Mercer or Toffolli's turtle ass.... it's the defense that is the core problem

I think the wisdom that comes with age plays a role in how this works. It’s easy to see the obvious talent a number of young players possess. What’s harder to see is the small stuff that is the difference between winning and losing. That is a nuanced and detailed effort that starts with upper management (really ownership) and goes down to the players. Everything matters. Small things like Luke trying to do a 180 to exit the wall with the puck last game leading to the Lafreniere goal. The next day a video coach should have gone over that play with Luke to break down why Luke did what he did and go over what he should have done and why. I’m skeptical that happened. There are probably 100 small moments in every game like that. Most go unnoticed but they are all instances where experience and reps eventually lead to success. I’m not sure where the tone of the season changed. I think preseason most posters expected regression with the turnover on defense. Now it’s contentious that what was expected came to pass? Just sounds like a number of fans got frustrated the team has not progressed as the year has gone on which is understandable but given the injuries the bad goaltending and the bad coaching it’s also an obvious outcome.

 

[Emperoreddy]

Ruff doing what he can to continue to sabotage this team

 

[Richer's Ghost]

You'll get a bobble head and like it.

Told ya

 

[Emperoreddy]

 

[forceten]

I'm a huge Luke supporter. No joke. Have been since before we selected him.

But if you're looking for reasons why the team is bad this year...look no further than the defense stacked with inexperienced players.

Lindy, the topic of this thread, is a scapegoat.

Edit: and what's even weirder, I don't like Lindy ...but if we are calling balls and strikes here, the defense is the root of this teams problems...not goaltending, not coaching, not Timo Meier or Dawson Mercer or Toffolli's turtle ass.... it's the defense that is the core problem

And centers. Which if you think about it is part of the defense overall as well. We’ve had a center problem this year… the Voldemort situation just exacerbated it, but he was playing 3C and that’s a disgrace

 

[Maine Fan]

I have been on these boards for twelve years and very seldom would make a thread like this. The lineup decisions, special teams, and execution tonight are some of the worst I have witnessed in my 15 years as a season ticket holder. So mods, delete this as you wish but I think it’s time. Lindy Ruff and Travis Green have been actively hurting this roster with their schemes and lineup decisions. The time is now before this becomes detrimental to future seasons. New voices are needed behind the bench to close out this season.

I hope management realizes this too. The culture that began last season is now being lost.

NjDevsRR, we didn't start well, my fault, I thought you were a homer, my bad. Your posts are mostly 100% "on target, Nailed It"

Thank you for supporting my position, that hasn't changed in the last 3 years. Ruff is bad, and Fitz adding Green out of friendship was a big mistake. Mostly it doesn't matter unless the team is trying to make the playoffs or stay in the playoffs. Both of these guys can't "compete" coaching in the playoffs.

Your understanding of NHL hockey and the New Jersey Devils shows via your numerous posts on this forum.

Thank you for caring about your team.

Lets Go Devils

 

[JimEIV]

Wrong thread

 

[My3Sons]

Yes trade Mercer Holtz Bahl and picks for Saros . That will fix them

And centers. Which if you think about it is part of the defense overall as well. We’ve had a center problem this year… the Voldemort situation just exacerbated it, but he was playing 3C and that’s a disgrace

When did Hischier change his name to Voldemort?

 

[JimEIV]

Fitz been the GM for 3 years and this person is talking about 11 years?

 

[Zajacs Bowl Cut]

If you are blindly cherry picking a couple stats to justify Luke's play, I don't even know why you bother watching games. Or maybe you don't. Or maybe you are visually impaired.

He's young, so some of his struggles are understandable. But he's undeniably been the worst defensemen at actually playing defense this season and consistently dangerously loses the puck at the blueline in the ozone.

This is the same people on here that told me for years the Devs defense didn't need to add any size or playable grit. The definition of insanity is.....probably still trying to debate with these people.

maybe don't call people out when your past takes have been so terribly wrong that you leave for months at a time.

just an idea!

 

[forceten]

When did Hischier change his name to Voldemort?

No no someone was playing in his spot!

 

[indfin]

Short term gains and the fraud that "maximizing shareholder value" is the #1 priority of an organization whose executives plan for 3-4 year timelines to get maximum comp and jump out before their actions' shambles are noticed and re-do the cycle are the bane of our system. It stifles innovation, it erodes real development and sustainability, and it rewards shysters and sociopaths.

I have no doubt that the Devils are a line on HBSE sheet and when the #s are right they'll just sell it and do it again.

I don't think that they will necessarily sell in this case. Ownership of a sports franchise in a major league is a very exclusive club, and membership in that club is a status symbol that can be lorded over others of similar (or greater) wealth.

Doesn't mean they will run it any differently than their other businesses, but the end game is likely not the same.

 

[NjDevsRR]

BUMP​

Playoffs on the line and you have one shot on goal in the third period

Fire the coach