Fire Lindy and Green, Now

[NjdevilfanJim]

It's tough to sit anyone when you're dealing with so many injuries...

Think about this for a second. I honestly believe that the defense we had last year was one of, if not the best we had in 20 years.... Hamilton, Marino, Siegenthaler, Graves and Severson was the deepest we seen in forever.

A couple of weeks ago not a single one of them was on the roster. Hamilton out, siegenthaler broken foot, Marino sick or something, Severson in Columbus and Graves in Pittsburgh....

How the heck do you adjust to that?

That's his job and test to figure out not the forums and he failed....Do you think he has the room and will guide this team through adversity (failed this year) and bring them multiple championships?

 

[JimEIV]

That's his job and test to figure out not the forums and he failed....Do you think he has the room and will guide this team through adversity (failed this year) and bring them multiple championships?

You need the right tools to do the job....

Management provides you with a nail file to cut down a tree... don't blame the lumberjack.

 

[Louskoolaid89]

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What media? Lol. She works for the team. If you wanna deflect criticism from your player blame us fans! We are terrible supporters right now!

 

[Captain3rdLine]

It's tough to sit anyone when you're dealing with so many injuries...

Think about this for a second. I honestly believe that the defense we had last year was one of, if not the best we had in 20 years.... Hamilton, Marino, Siegenthaler, Graves and Severson was the deepest we seen in forever.

A couple of weeks ago not a single one of them was on the roster. Hamilton out, siegenthaler broken foot, Marino sick or something, Severson in Columbus and Graves in Pittsburgh....

How the heck do you adjust to that?

I mean Hamilton getting injured is unlucky but apart from that Nemec and Luke are arguably better than Severson and Graves collectively. I promise Graves would not be helping right now. He sucks in Pittsburgh and sucked for long stretches with us but was propped up by Marino’s great play.

Our D truly should not be bad. Certainly have the talent. Some guys underperforming, goaltending hasn’t helped and Smith just completely sucks. But Lindy keeps playing Smith, relied on Siegenthaler too much for too long while he was struggling and the second a new young guy is playing solid hockey he takes them out for Smith right away.

Sure we lost some veteran guys and Dougie getting hurt is huge but Lindy has managed things terribly.

 

[JimEIV]

I mean Hamilton getting injured is unlucky but apart from that Nemec and Luke are arguably better than Severson and Graves collectively. I promise Graves would not be helping right now. He sucks in Pittsburgh and sucked for long stretches with us but was propped up by Marino’s great play.

Our D truly should not be bad. Certainly have the talent. Some guys underperforming, goaltending hasn’t helped and Smith just completely sucks. But Lindy keeps playing Smith, relied on Siegenthaler too much for too long while he was struggling and the second a new young guy is playing solid hockey he takes them out for Smith right away.

Sure we lost some veteran guys and Dougie getting hurt is huge but Lindy has managed things terribly.

I'm not going to even entertain the notion that Nemec and Luke are anywhere near Graves and Severson.... it's just not even remotely in the realm of reality.

 

[NJDevs26]

They haven’t even been able to file their nails this season let alone chop a tree down.

Even if you want to buy into the notion the team isn’t as good as last year so there’s no way we can compete with the mighty Rangers or Canes that doesn’t excuse all these other shit losses to cream of the crap teams at home, the constant bad starts to games, or allowing players to be babies and crash their bicycles without putting them in timeout. Forget about winning, let’s just start with accountability for more than one or two players on this roster

 

[Captain3rdLine]

I'm not going to even entertain the notion that Nemec and Luke are anywhere near Graves and Severson.... it's just not even remotely in the realm of reality.

They quite literally are better. Was originally gonna do a lefty righty comparison but otherwise makes more sense.

Luke is a more extreme version of Severson IMO. Can offer more going forward and is better when he’s on his game but is more mistake prone. Been having his struggles lately to the point where we’d probably be better off with Severson.

Nemec is clearly better than Graves. Graves is just not very good. Fine as a 4 or 5 dman. Nemec is playing far better than that.

Not sure if you’ve kept track but not many people in Pittsburgh still want Graves and his contract.

It’s not just in the realm of reality or arguable but likely true that they’re better.

 

[NJDevs26]

Nemec is probably better, Thursday aside but Luke has been bad Severson on steroids for the better part of two months.

 

[Devilsfan992]

I'm less annoyed at the defense and more annoyed at the offense. Other than the SS game, 1 goal against the Rangers , 2 against the Caps, 1 against the Kings. With the healthiest offensive roster we have had since the first few offensive games.

 

[Saint Beaurivage]

I say it is the coach but more the GM. The GM had a great team loaded with young talent and decided to trade it away last year, Fitzpatrick is every bit of a rookie as Luke or Nemec. We had strong horses. He also has allowed Ruff to overstay his tenure like a rotting egg. Way too long here.

The team still has enough talent to be in a playoff spot - the coach. Motivation is key - the coach. The Devils come out flat and lose at home too often - the coach.

The Devils should be in the middle of the playoff pack today and still can be if the GM grows a pair.

 

[JimEIV]

Nemec 5v5 596:39. On Ice for 30 Goals Against. That's nearly 3 goals against per 60

Luke 5v5 919:20 On Ice for 38 Goals Against. That's about 2.5 goals against per 60

Interesting that the general consensus is that Nemec is better... We give up a lot more goals against when Nemec is on the ice. And we give up a shit ton when either are on the ice

 

[Poppy Whoa Sonnet]

Truly amazing that Jim's diagnosis for the team's issues is Luke and Nemec.

If you're curious this is how the Devils defense looks for that stat and GF% this year

Nemec and Luke definitely not the first two I'd single out, don't forget the fact that both are paid under a million this year and are delivering massive excess value on their contracts.

 

[JimEIV]

Truly amazing that Jim's diagnosis for the team's issues is Luke and Nemec.

If you're curious this is how the Devils defense looks for that stat and GF% this year

View attachment 824567

Nemec and Luke definitely not the first two I'd single out, don't forget the fact that both are paid under a million this year and are delivering massive excess value on their contracts.

Lol....when Marino's most common partners are Bahl, Luke and Nemec what do think the net effect is going to be?

 

[Devils731]

Lol....when Marino's most common partners are Bahl, Luke and Nemec what do think the net effect is going to be?

You would hope Marino wouldn’t be worst on the team at goals against along with Smith.

If you think this is a good way to judge defensive play then Marino and Smith have been dragging everyone else down this year.

 

[NjdevilfanJim]

I'm not going to even entertain the notion that Nemec and Luke are anywhere near Graves and Severson.... it's just not even remotely in the realm of reality.

So they are sucking it up with their new teams and you feel they would be better having them here ....You draft players to eventually play them to gain experience only way is to play them and suffer through growing pains....

 

[JimEIV]

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You would hope Marino wouldn’t be worst on the team at goals against along with Smith.

If you think this is a good way to judge defensive play then Marino and Smith have been dragging everyone else down this year.

Probably makes sense that Marino had been dragging down Luke and Bahl.

When those two are playing with Marino they are playing top pair minutes...any time away from Marino is most likely going to be easier assignments.

This shouldn't have to be said.

 

[Devils731]

Probably makes sense that Marino had been dragging down Luke and Bahl.

When those two are playing with Marino they are playing top pair minutes...any time away from Marino is most likely going to be easier assignments.

This shouldn't have to be said.

You said the Devils give up tons of goals when Nemec or Luke are on the ice.

You also said the 0.5 difference between Nemec and Luke was significant.

Marino is 0.5 and 1.0 more than those 2, so how horrible has Marino been in this case?

————-

There are some reasonable explanations for this but based on your superficial examination of the numbers above, you should feel Marino has been easily worse than these 2.

 

[Triumph]

Marino with Hughes - 55% xG, 48% GF/GA

Marino without Hughes - 51% xG, 37% GF/GA

Hmm yes, seems like Hughes is the issue here.

 

[My3Sons]

There needs to be some way to adjust those numbers for quality of competition. It’s hard to know in a vacuum how they extrapolate when normalized for each player’s usage. At times both Nemec and Luke have been asked to play very tough minutes but apparently Bahl has been given the most difficult minutes on the team if memory serves?

 

[Dylan9z9]

You need the right tools to do the job....

Management provides you with a nail file to cut down a tree... don't blame the lumberjack.

Management has also failed this team

 

[NjdevilfanJim]

Just the way they come out flat game after game...Most players look like they are thinking more than reacting which slows their play....Just don't see how we risk giving him another shot ....If it fails it could get ugly.....

 

[JimEIV]

Marino with Hughes - 55% xG, 48% GF/GA

Marino without Hughes - 51% xG, 37% GF/GA

Hmm yes, seems like Hughes is the issue here.

This is clearly differences in deployment. I know that's something that you can't wrap your head around.

But it is.

Marino and Graves were the lowest xGF% of our top 5 last year while Severson was the highest .... has everything to do with deployment.

Are you making the claim Severson 60.23% xGF% was better defensively that Marino 53.77%

Kevin Bahl 21.69 and Brendan Smith 31.76 also had a significantly better xGA than Marino 42.26......,they must've been better than Marino defensively last year?

I'm afraid some poindexter might be feeding this type of nonsense to the front office

Edit: regardless this rabbit hole started purely as a comparison of Nemec to Luke this season of on ice goals against...and the spreadsheet jockies always find a away to introduce some kind of nonsensical deviation.

 

[Poppy Whoa Sonnet]

This is clearly differences in deployment. I know that's something that you can't wrap your head around.

But it is.

Marino and Graves were the lowest xGF% of our top 5 last year while Severson was the highest .... has everything to do with deployment.

Are you making the claim Severson 60.23% xGF% was better defensively that Marino 53.77%

Kevin Bahl 29.2 and Brendan Smith 42.17 also had a significantly better xGA than Marino 49.15....,they must've been better than Marino defensively last year?

I'm afraid some poindexter might be feeding this type of nonsense to the front office

Edit: regardless this rabbit hole started purely as a comparison of Nemec to Luke this season of on ice goals against...and the spreadsheet jockies always find a away to introduce some kind of nonsensical deviation.

Ok so you introduced some statistic, indicated it was meaningful, ignored how that statistic looked for the other players on the team.

Then when it looks bad for the veterans you present this claim that the other players look bad precisely because of playing with the rookies with no evidence, and Triumph presents compelling counter evidence you say it's just deployment and we are all fools for trusting the metric at face value in the first place.

Man what am I doing spending my Saturday talking about this...

 

[JimEIV]

Ok so you introduced some statistic, indicated it was meaningful, ignored how that statistic looked for the other players on the team.

Then when it looks bad for the veterans you present this claim that the other players look bad precisely because of playing with the rookies with no evidence, and Triumph presents compelling counter evidence you say it's just deployment and we are all fools for trusting the metric at face value in the first place.

Man what am I doing spending my Saturday talking about this...

I would trust his opinions on a comparison of Google Sheets vs Microsoft Excel more than his views on NHL defensemen.

 

[Bleedred]

This would be the perfect time for an updated version of this.

I can already come up with a rough intro. “the fans were chanting fire Lindy, get him outta here. Then we won some games, 13 in a row. Had the best season in franchise history. Won a playoff series” and then when he breaks down laughing hysterically for the first time “I extended Lindy Ruff for multiple years! And it doesn’t even start until 2024-2025!” In between the hysterical laughter.

And the part around a minute 18 in where he says “Even Conte is still here” (that parts gets me every time) and he bangs on the table, that could be “Even Travis Green is here now!”. And the “losing at home to the Oilers” can be taken out for “Losing at home to the Sharks, Ducks, Capitals x2, Habs, Blue Jackets”.

I wish I had the editing skills. You can also throw in something about Timo playing the left side during the part where he says we give Tootoo more power play minutes than Henrique because he’s a right handed shot. And you can ever throw in some Holtz stuff later on in there.

And just tweak the “the owners wanna raise ticket prices to see this terrible team play, that’s missed the playoffs 4 of the last 5 seasons” to “the owners are raising ticket prices 9% on a team that’s missed the playoffs 10 of the last 12 years!”.