Fire Ken Holland: 2022-2023 edition

[Oilhawks]

Glad to see this circle jerk is alive and well.

Holland was pretty much the least culpable Oiler for the results of this post-season. Could he have told Woody to f*** off and trade for Gudas? Maybe, but I doubt the Panthers would have moved him. Could he have forced Woody to start Campbell? Maybe, but I doubt he would have liked to undermine his coach like that.

Anyways, back on ignore you go

 

[WaitingForUser]

How did I know this thread would come out again after we lost? 4 straight playoff appearances and 4 straight 2nd place finishes in the division but let’s fire our gym our coach and fire all the players sans MCDrai into the sun.

Good old HF oil just can’t understand how extremely hard it is to win a championship. The Caps were contenders for 13 years before they got over the hump. It took the the blues from when they entered the league to 2018 to win one. Buffalo still hasn’t won one. The Leafs haven’t even been to the finals since 1967. We were extremely spoiled winning 5 cups in our first 11 years in the league that is not the norm. Now with 32 teams the quest is even harder.

This is the best oilers team we have had since 06 and possibly since the dynasty days. However just because you have a good team does not mean you a guaranteed to win the cup. Look at the Bruins best regular season in NHL history out in the first round.

But by all means let’s just keep up the narrative we have a bad GM and coach, let’s fire both and once again start from the beginning. I mean it worked so well the last 30 years right?

 

[Vagabond]

I really liked what Holland has done especially the last 16 months minus the Campbell signing. At the time I was fine with it if I'm to be honest. Nobody predicted Campbell to flop like he did.

Ekholm
Bjugstad
Campbell
Kostin
Janmark
Kane
Keeping Ryan
Hopkins sweetheart signing
Pulji dump and still getting an asset

These were all admirable moves.. minus Campbell. Maybe Campbell turns it around after finishing strong at the end of the season and being great at relieving Skinner. <--*sounds kinda funny*

Holland inherited an absolute mess after Chia. He's made a couple poor moves but all in all, he's made far more positive moves than poor ones.

 

[SwedishFire]

I said Holland could keep his job if the team made it to the second round.

I stand by that, but this team isn’t good enough.

McDavid is such an offensive player, that I woumd try McDavid and Draisaitl on wings on a line, centered by O Reilly. I would like to try draisaitl at C instead of McDavid as well. Thinknof McDavid blasting past defenders all the time from wing position.

 

[Broberg Speed]

Holland hasn't assemble a team that can play playoff hockey. So let's get a new GM.

Our coaching doesn't provide a brand of hockey that can win in the playoffs. Our defensive zone coverage is the worst. Let's get some new coaches.

 

[Soundwave]

Sounds like Holland is gone after next year anyway, Staois will be the new GM.

 

[OfCorsiDid]

Bumping thread because of bad trade.

 

[GOilers88]

As much as I liked Kostin, I dunno. Holloway should be able to take his spot and it clears Yamo off the books. Apparently he wants to get paid, we'll have to see what he signs for in Detroit.

People constantly jump on Holland for overpaying term and money to bottom six players, this time he didn't.

 

[nturn06]

Bumping thread because of bad trade.

What bad trade?

Kostin wanted more than the Oilers could afford and the QO would had oppened the arbitration can of worms. The Oilers were forced to not qualify him.

Somohow, getting something instead of letting an asset walk away for free is a bad trade.

 

[OfCorsiDid]

What bad trade?

Kostin wanted more than the Oilers could afford and the QO would had oppened the arbitration can of worms. The Oilers were forced to not qualify him.

Somohow, getting something instead of letting an asset walk away for free is a bad trade.

We did let him go for free? Like what does future considerations mean? Holland gets to order ahead of Yzerman at GM meetings?

 

[nturn06]

We did let him go for free? Like what does future considerations mean? Holland gets to order ahead of Yzerman at GM meetings?

IMO, the way Yamamoto played last year, and given his salary, he is a negative asset. This is why he was oftem mentioned as a prime buyout candidate.

We used a player whom we would had lost for nothing to get rid of a negative asset.

 

[Beerfish]

IMO, the way Yamamoto played last year, and given his salary, he is a negative asset. This is why he was oftem mentioned as a prime buyout candidate.

We used a player whom we would had lost for nothing to get rid of a negative asset.

The issue is that yammo played last year 100% no different than any other year of his career. He should have been turfed last year before giving him a 2 year over priced deal that we had to go out of our way to get rid of a year later.

 

[nturn06]

The issue is that yammo played last year 100% no different than any other year of his career. He should have been turfed last year before giving him a 2 year over priced deal that we had to go out of our way to get rid of a year later.

I dissagree, he actually had a very good half season before, and showed some promisse.

Anyhow, at the end of the day, if Holland let Yama go last season, as you suggest, and not qualify Kostin, the outcome is exactly the same... So how is this a bad trade?

 

[Kanedogg]

Once again the issue is Holland being highly poor at writing contracts. Last year the big move was to get out of a Kassian contract he wrote for way too much for too long and this year Yamamoto.

We basically have no room and have not even remotely improved our team with McLeod and Bouchard taking what meager cap room we have left.

Suspect he'll be tossing in a pick this time next year to get rid of his ceci contract as well.

 

[Sra1974]

Once again the issue is Holland being highly poor at writing contracts. Last year the big move was to get out of a Kassian contract he wrote for way too much for too long and this year Yamamoto.

We basically have no room and have not even remotely improved our team with McLeod and Bouchard taking what meager cap room we have left.

Suspect he'll be tossing in a pick this time next year to get rid of his ceci contract as well.

I tend to agree. The issue isn’t the trade Holland just made, that was pretty good. The issue is the situation he himself put him in. Sign Yams to a reasonable deal, now there’s a market for him potentially or he can be thrown in on a deal. In the end it’s poor asset management, something this franchise is just too good at.

 

[Jumptheshark]

Bumping thread because of bad trade.

we needed to either move yams or buy him out. Buy out was the last option. Kostin at 2 mill was about 500k too much and it sounds like Kostin was not coming off that amount.

I hate the trade but understand the trade. We needed to free up the 3mill Yams made.

due to couple of bad drafts--Holland has put me into the fire his ass or the scouting guys.

2 picks pissed me off

Taking Broberg and then passing on Wallstedt and trading down. I have Wallstedt better than both of the players we aquired by trading down.

 

[McVespa99]

I tend to agree. The issue isn’t the trade Holland just made, that was pretty good. The issue is the situation he himself put him in. Sign Yams to a reasonable deal, now there’s a market for him potentially or he can be thrown in on a deal. In the end it’s poor asset management, something this franchise is just too good at.

The person you are quoting and you both dont seem to understand how Nhl contracts work. Yams was coming off a 20 goal season and had Arb rights. He would have gotten 3 mill or more in arbitration so it was better to sign him for 3 at the lower end of what was possible. The only other choice was to not qualify him and let him go to ufa. After him playing pretty well and scoring 20 which would you have done?

we needed to either move yams or buy him out. Buy out was the last option. Kostin at 2 mill was about 500k too much and it sounds like Kostin was not coming off that amount.

I hate the trade but understand the trade. We needed to free up the 3mill Yams made.

due to couple of bad drafts--Holland has put me into the fire his ass or the scouting guys.

2 picks pissed me off

Taking Broberg and then passing on Wallstedt and trading down. I have Wallstedt better than both of the players we aquired by trading down.

I think you will finally get your chance this year to see if Broberg was a good pick or not. Still pretty early in his career to decide either way

 

[Sra1974]

The person you are quoting and you both dont seem to understand how Nhl contracts work. Yams was coming off a 20 goal season and had Arb rights. He would have gotten 3 mill or more in arbitration so it was better to sign him for 3 at the lower end of what was possible. The only other choice was to not qualify him and let him go to ufa. After him playing pretty well and scoring 20 which would you have done?


I think you will finally get your chance this year to see if Broberg was a good pick or not. Still pretty early in his career to decide either way

Yeah, I think it was a moment for Holland to play hardball and likely should have. Would’ve been a signal to everyone, you can’t cash in on just a single good year here. The team is more important.

 

[Fourier]

I tend to agree. The issue isn’t the trade Holland just made, that was pretty good. The issue is the situation he himself put him in. Sign Yams to a reasonable deal, now there’s a market for him potentially or he can be thrown in on a deal. In the end it’s poor asset management, something this franchise is just too good at.

I'll be the first to say that Holland with an open cheque book scares me. But there was no reasonable deal to sign with Yamamoto. He was arbitration eligible and would have had an excellent shot at $3.5-4M which, given how close the Oilers were to the cap, the Oilers could not afford. If I had to guess the second year was the trigger to get his AAV down to $3.1M.

Both Yamamoto and JP signed their ticket off the team with their salary demands.

 

[Bryanbryoil]

I'll be the first to say that Holland with an open cheque book scares me. But there was no reasonable deal to sign with Yamamoto. He was arbitration eligible and would have had an excellent shot at $3.5-4M which, given how close the Oilers were to the cap, the Oilers could not afford. If I had to guess the second year was the trigger to get his AAV down to $3.1M.

Both Yamamoto and JP signed their ticket off the team with their salary demands.

The problem is that as the GM he should've had a better read on the players and walked from Yamo and maybe even Pulju and done something useful with the cap. Instead we ended up with 2 negative value contracts. Does he make a similar mistake with McLeod?

 

[nturn06]

The problem is that as the GM he should've had a better read on the players and walked from Yamo and maybe even Pulju and done something useful with the cap. Instead we ended up with 2 negative value contracts. Does he make a similar mistake with McLeod?

Something tells me that, had Holland let Pulju and Yama walk last season, this thread would had have 100+ pages

 

[Bryanbryoil]

Something tells me that, had Holland let Pulju and Yama walk last season, this thread would had have 100+ pages

Depending on what he did with that $6.1 million. Both players proved to be overpaid duds.

 

[Sra1974]

I'll be the first to say that Holland with an open cheque book scares me. But there was no reasonable deal to sign with Yamamoto. He was arbitration eligible and would have had an excellent shot at $3.5-4M which, given how close the Oilers were to the cap, the Oilers could not afford. If I had to guess the second year was the trigger to get his AAV down to $3.1M.

Both Yamamoto and JP signed their ticket off the team with their salary demands.

And that’s the conversation I would have with players like this and their agent. Along the lines of - we are close here to winning, but we need every dollar available here. If you want to be part of this here’s the number we can fit you in at. If you can’t or won’t accept that we will need to move in from you. I think your value in future years is enhanced by being on a Stanley Cup winning team, if you want to be part of that we want you here.

Arbitration eligible does create Some leverage but you can still have an open conversation and see where it lands.

 

[Fourier]

And that’s the conversation I would have with players like this and their agent. Along the lines of - we are close here to winning, but we need every dollar available here. If you want to be part of this here’s the number we can fit you in at. If you can’t or won’t accept that we will need to move in from you. I think your value in future years is enhanced by being on a Stanley Cup winning team, if you want to be part of that we want you here.

Arbitration eligible does create Some leverage but you can still have an open conversation and see where it lands.

I actually fully agree. If you check my posts from last off season I pretty much said the same things. With JP specifically I said that if he was willing to take $1.5-2M he probably could have chosen where he wanted to play since it would have made the contract tradeable. In the case of both players, every team out there wanted nothing to do with arbitration as well so there was no trade option.

We have seen this year that teams finally figured this out. In fact, it is possible that Holland may have to have this conversation with McLeod. Bouchard is a bit more challenging. You don't want to push him to go get an offer sheet. That would be the worst case scenario I think.

 

[Fourier]

The problem is that as the GM he should've had a better read on the players and walked from Yamo and maybe even Pulju and done something useful with the cap. Instead we ended up with 2 negative value contracts. Does he make a similar mistake with McLeod?

It's a tough call. Yamamoto from 2021-2022 was worth $3M would have been hard to replace for $3M, just not from the Oilers. It would have also been tough to not qualify JP. But as I said above, Holland could have made it clear if he did not that a high AAV was a ticket off the team sooner than later.