Fire Ken Holland: 2022-2023 edition

[Soundwave]

Pumped about Puju. Wanted to pay to get rid of Foegle.

Not sure but I've been riding Pulju and Yamamoto's ass from basically day 1 of the season, but OK sure.

Foegele is still overpaid for what he brings, anyone over 2 million needs to be putting up a minimum of 15 goals here especially if they do get a fair number of shifts with McDrai here and there. I don't think that's some genius signing like you do apparently.

What was even the f***ing plan here? To have 12 1st round home grown picks on the roster? Was that what we shooting for?

How many more do you really need past McDavid, Draisaitl, RNH, and Nurse? That's 4 already, keep 1 or 2 of Yamamoto, Puljujarvi, Broberg, Bouchard, Holloway, etc. etc. fine ... but we really needed to keep all of these f***ing picks? Really? Reaaallly? Couldn't have traded any of them for an impact player like Ekholm before this year? Really chief? You sure about that?

Colorado had 5 home grown 1st round picks on their Cup winning roster ... MacKinnon, Landeskog, Makar, and then Jost and Byram who played lesser roles.

Tampa had 3 I believe ... Stamkos, Hedman, and Vasilevsky the year before that they won.

Hoarding 1st round picks when you have the best players in the world already is a stupid strategy. The Ekholm trade right now just shows it in spades ... he makes a bigger impact on the team than pretty the last 5 1st round picks the team has had, and yet we were so reluctant to try doing this before for no great reason. You don't build an entire team with 1st round picks, that's just stupid.

 

[joestevens29]

Not sure but I've been riding Pulju and Yamamoto's ass from basically day 1 of the season, but OK sure.

Foegele is still overpaid for what he brings, anyone over 2 million needs to be putting up a minimum of 15 goals here especially if they do get a fair number of shifts with McDrai here and there. I don't think that's some genius signing like you do apparently.

What was even the f***ing plan here? To have 12 1st round home grown picks on the roster? Was that what we shooting for?

How many more do you really need past McDavid, Draisaitl, RNH, and Nurse? That's 4 already, keep 1 or 2 of Yamamoto, Puljujarvi, Broberg, Bouchard, Holloway, etc. etc. fine ... but we really needed to keep all of these f***ing picks? Really? Reaaallly? Couldn't have traded any of them for an impact player like Ekholm before this year? Really chief? You sure about that?

Colorado had 5 home grown 1st round picks on their Cup winning roster ... MacKinnon, Landeskog, Makar, and then Jost and Byram who played lesser roles.

Tampa had 3 I believe ... Stamkos, Hedman, and Vasilevsky the year before that they won.

Hoarding 1st round picks when you have the best players in the world already is a stupid strategy. The Ekholm trade right now just shows it in spades ... he makes a bigger impact on the team than pretty the last 5 1st round picks the team has had, and yet we were so reluctant to try doing this before for no great reason. You don't build an entire team with 1st round picks, that's just stupid.

I mean Foegele is there for goals if not for injuries.

 

[JustNapalmIt]

I mean Foegele is there for goals if not for injuries.

He also barely plays at all until recently with Mcdavid

 

[Soundwave]

I mean Foegele is there for goals if not for injuries.

For 2 mill OK, 2.7 mill that's still I think borderline not good enough.

Foegele has 13 goals for 2.7 million in 66 games, Klim Kostin has 11 goals in 56 games for 750k ... so basically the same goals per game rate for like 1/4 the cost. And Foegele has gotten more playing time with McDavid and Draisaitl at times this year, if Klim got the same that's probably a wash entirely.

If your management is on the ball you can find guys who can give you 10-14 goals from a bottom six role for a lot less than 2.7 million. Bjugstad who I was talking about months ago here, is another good add ... 4 goals here in less than 20 games, 17 overall for the year ... for peanuts.

Committing big dollars and term to players like Foegele, when (if you're smart) there are fairly equivalent type of players available, isn't exactly great. Thankfully it seems this organization is wising up to that.

 

[joestevens29]

For 2 mill OK, 2.7 mill that's still I think borderline not good enough.

Foegele has 13 goals for 2.7 million in 66 games, Klim Kostin has 11 goals in 56 games for 750k ... so basically the same goals per game rate for like 1/4 the cost. And Foegele has gotten more playing time with McDavid and Draisaitl at times this year, if Klim got the same that's probably a wash entirely.

If your management is on the ball you can find guys who can give you 10-14 goals from a bottom six role for a lot less than 2.7 million. Bjugstad who I was talking about months ago here, is another good add ... 4 goals here in less than 20 games, 17 overall for the year ... for peanuts.

So he made up for his mistake by adding two other guys. Seems like something a good GM does.

 

[Soundwave]

So he made up for his mistake by adding two other guys. Seems like something a good GM does.

No it means 2.7 million is still a hefty price for the production Foegele brings.

The Oilers have direct comparables right in front of their face that prove that in Bjugstad and Kostin, both of whom also basically cost the team dick all to add (unless you were a Kesselring fan I guess).

You don't have to spend 2.7 million on the Foegeles of the world, even though he has turned his season around post-Christmas (good for him, still doesn't make it a great signing).

 

[KeithIsActuallyBad]

Simple Q: if the Oilers fail to win a playoff round what would be the feeling about Holland? He had a great TDL, he did exactly what I wanted him to. But there’s still a long road ahead and nothing is guaranteed.

 

[joestevens29]

No it means 2.7 million is still a hefty price for the production Foegele brings.

The Oilers have direct comparables right in front of their face that prove that in Bjugstad and Kostin, both of whom also basically cost the team dick all to add (unless you were a Kesselring fan I guess).

You don't have to spend 2.7 million on the Foegeles of the world, even though he has turned his season around post-Christmas (good for him, still doesn't make it a great signing).

Nah I wasn't a fan of Kesselring. I mean whatever I hoped he'd do well, but I was never of the impression he was going to make an impact at the NHL level anytime soon.

 

[CantHaveTkachev]

We definitely wasted a window with McDavid earlier in his career to compete because we worship 1st round picks as if every one of them is going to turn out to be a star player when the reality is outside of top 3 picks, a lot of 1st round picks don't ever really work out to be anything that special.

had we thrown away 1st rounders in 2018..Bouchard wouldn't be here

The Wings got basically nothing for Vrana ... a 7th round pick and an AHL prospect who I believe is an undrafted player. That's literally peanuts.

Who here would be upset if we made a Ekholm type deal 2 or 3 years ago? Traded our 1st for a d-man or established impact forward that could make a huge difference without doing it in a stupid way (like giving away Hall, who was an established player on the team, for Larsson). Who here right now is still devastated we traded a 1st + Schaefer for Ekholm as is? Nobody.

Ekholm wasn't available 2 or 3 years ago...so who was? you make it sound so easy to build a team with your 20/20 hindsight moves

 

[joestevens29]

Simple Q: if the Oilers fail to win a playoff round what would be the feeling about Holland? He had a great TDL, he did exactly what I wanted him to. But there’s still a long road ahead and nothing is guaranteed.

All depends why/how we lose.

Not really going to blame Holland or Woody if the players revert back to being lazy and making stupid decisions in their own end or don't back check

 

[CantHaveTkachev]

Simple Q: if the Oilers fail to win a playoff round what would be the feeling about Holland? He had a great TDL, he did exactly what I wanted him to. But there’s still a long road ahead and nothing is guaranteed.

he still built the best team in recent memory..not his fault the players couldn't execute

should Don Sweeney be fired if the Bruins get bounced in the 1st round? no

 

[Soundwave]

had we thrown away 1st rounders in 2018..Bouchard wouldn't be here




Ekholm wasn't available 2 or 3 years ago...so who was? you make it sound so easy to build a team with your 20/20 hindsight moves

2 or 3 years ago? For their 1st + like Puljujarvi the Oilers probably could've landed a player like Hampus Lindholm (now on the Bruins).

People can give me shit about this all they want but show me a team with like 10 1st round picks (home grown selected) on any good NHL team.

No one f***ing builds that way because it's a stupid, slow motion way of building a team. Thank god some urgency was finally put into a management team here because Draisaitl's contract is ticking down and even they aren't dumb enough to ignore that.

 

[Captain Controversy]

Honestly I'm not gushing over any of these guys.

For the amount of draft capital the Oilers have had the last 10 years, they should have a lot better of roster depth and impact players than what they have. None of these guys really makes a big difference in actual winning or losing hockey games.

Even Holloway ... is he another Yamamoto tier player? Maybe McLeod tier in a year or two?

I feel as if Holloway will be better than mcleod. More offense to his game and more bite and still quite fast.

 

[KeithIsActuallyBad]

All depends why/how we lose.

Not really going to blame Holland or Woody if the players revert back to being lazy and making stupid decisions in their own end or don't back check

I'm long past the point of excuses. Barring a stunning rash of injuries this team should make it to the WCF. Either you win or you don't.

he still built the best team in recent memory..not his fault the players couldn't execute

should Don Sweeney be fired if the Bruins get bounced in the 1st round? no

People in this thread are giving Holland credit for building the roster... Which to some degree, I agree with. But why wouldn't he catch flak if that same roster doesn't get it done?

And I don't think the situation is the same in Boston as it is here since most of the hockey world expected Boston to be a borderline playoff team if at all.

 

[joestevens29]

I feel as if Holloway will be better than mcleod. More offense to his game and more bite and still quite fast.

Lowetide caught me off guard the other day saying he doesn't think Holloway will be a top 6.

 

[Mr Positive]

Simple Q: if the Oilers fail to win a playoff round what would be the feeling about Holland? He had a great TDL, he did exactly what I wanted him to. But there’s still a long road ahead and nothing is guaranteed.

Firing him wouldn't be in the table no matter how we lost. He'd definitely lose a bunch of leash, but he has a lot right now

 

[joestevens29]

I'm long past the point of excuses. Barring a stunning rash of injuries this team should make it to the WCF. Either you win or you don't.


People in this thread are giving Holland credit for building the roster... Which to some degree, I agree with. But why wouldn't he catch flak if that same roster doesn't get it done?

And I don't think the situation is the same in Boston as it is here since most of the hockey world expected Boston to be a borderline playoff team if at all.

Kind of like a lot of posters here said about the Oilers last year then we go to Conference finals and there is still a thread about firing the guy to start this year.

I honestly think there are far too many people on here hoping the Oilers don't win so they can be right on Holland.

 

[CantHaveTkachev]

People in this thread are giving Holland credit for building the roster... Which to some degree, I agree with. But why wouldn't he catch flak if that same roster doesn't get it done?

And I don't think the situation is the same in Boston as it is here since most of the hockey world expected Boston to be a borderline playoff team if at all.

his job is to build the best roster to compete for the Cup, he's done that based on the results...at some point the fault lies with the coaches and players because its their job to execute with the roster

 

[Captain Controversy]

Lowetide caught me off guard the other day saying he doesn't think Holloway will be a top 6.

If it's on the Oilers, I can see it as our depth is quite good. I would rather Holloway in Yamamotos spot. Or even mcleod in yams spot but the C depth is great with Mcleod playing in his natural position.

 

[CantHaveTkachev]

2 or 3 years ago? For their 1st + like Puljujarvi the Oilers probably could've landed a player like Hampus Lindholm (now on the Bruins).

Lindholm isn't waiving his NTC to come here...McDavid or not
we have to draft well cause we are still an undesirable market for the most part

People can give me shit about this all they want but show me a team with like 10 1st round picks (home grown selected) on any good NHL team.

No one f***ing builds that way because it's a stupid, slow motion way of building a team. Thank god some urgency was finally put into a management team here because Draisaitl's contract is ticking down and even they aren't dumb enough to ignore that.

the only reason we got a player like Ekholm was because Nashville specifically wanted Reid Scheiffer as part of the deal...you know, the guy we drafted
you do know drafted prospects can be currency too right

 

[joestevens29]

If it's on the Oilers, I can see it as our depth is quite good. I would rather Holloway in Yamamotos spot. Or even mcleod in yams spot but the C depth is great with Mcleod playing in his natural position.

He just kinda questioned if he could score at NHL level.

It was just real odd to hear, as the guy seemingly is quite honest about prospects

 

[KeithIsActuallyBad]

Kind of like a lot of posters here said about the Oilers last year then we go to Conference finals and there is still a thread about firing the guy to start this year.

I honestly think there are far too many people on here hoping the Oilers don't win so they can be right on Holland.

Because the Oilers were a very mediocre team at the start of the year with a nightmare in net (who thankfully has been supplanted). There were points this season where the team wasn't even in a playoff spot. Things have turned around since then, and hopefully they continue to do so. As for your last statement, this is just a bad strawman people use to make themselves look better. Nobody wants the Oilers to lose. If they win the Cup this year, I'll fly my car flag as I take a citywide tour.

his job is to build the best roster to compete for the Cup, he's done that based on the results...at some point the fault lies with the coaches and players because its their job to execute with the roster

This very much remains to be seen. The team is playing well and looks like a legit contender. My issue is that Holland took so long to address the defense. Better late than never, hope they go far. It's easy to forget how close the team was to disaster in last year's playoffs, praying there are no dire situations this year against lesser teams.

 

[joestevens29]

Because the Oilers were a very mediocre team at the start of the year with a nightmare in net (who thankfully has been supplanted). There were points this season where the team wasn't even in a playoff spot. Things have turned around since then, and hopefully they continue to do so. As for your last statement, this is just a bad strawman people use to make themselves look better. Nobody wants the Oilers to lose. If they win the Cup this year, I'll fly my car flag as I take a citywide tour.


This very much remains to be seen. The team is playing well and looks like a legit contender. My issue is that Holland took so long to address the defense. Better late than never, hope they go far. It's easy to forget how close the team was to disaster in last year's playoffs, praying there are no dire situations this year against lesser teams.

Maybe he took long, but at the same time should've he went out and got Chychryn a year and half ago when he was first available?

The guy waited and found the right piece.

 

[CupofOil]

No it means 2.7 million is still a hefty price for the production Foegele brings.

The Oilers have direct comparables right in front of their face that prove that in Bjugstad and Kostin, both of whom also basically cost the team dick all to add (unless you were a Kesselring fan I guess).

You don't have to spend 2.7 million on the Foegeles of the world, even though he has turned his season around post-Christmas (good for him, still doesn't make it a great signing).

Name one team that doesn't have an overpayment.

To complain about Foegele (who has been pretty good in his role for the most part) when the team is in the midst of one of its best runs in 30 years seems fruitless.

Yes we're all aware that Holland isn't perfect and has some overpays on his record. Maybe he should have addressed the defense sooner. Does it really matter now?

 

[Soundwave]

Lindholm isn't waiving his NTC to come here...McDavid or not
we have to draft well cause we are still an undesirable market for the most part



the only reason we got a player like Ekholm was because Nashville specifically wanted Reid Scheiffer as part of the deal...you know, the guy we drafted
you do know drafted prospects can be currency too right

I think they wanted the 2023 1st a whole more judging by the hype this draft has frankly. Everyone and their grandma always say "we wanted this exact prospect!!!!" when they finalize a deal, lol, it's not some big deal.

LADISLAV SMID!!!!! was the exact prospect the Oilers apparently wanted from the Ducks in the Pronger deal, lol, like who cares. Had to have Smid!!!! They all say that shit afterwards.

The Preds knew Forsberg was done for the year and Josi was hurting too so they shut the season down and wanted as many 1st round picks or 1st round pick + equivalents they could get for Ekholm, and they got offered it by the Oilers, so they took it and ran. I doubt very much they'd have killed the deal if the Oilers insisted on the pick being Xavier Bourgault instead of Schaefer or even making the pick the 2024 1st instead of Schaefer.