Proposal: Fire DJ Smith

[Beech]

There was a compounding effect mostly stemming from essentially losing their top pairing on D. Everything went to absolute chaos without Methot and a healthy Karlsson. Nobody came in even remotely capable of filling Methot's role or helping Karlsson carry the load. Karlsson looked like shit with the bad ankle basically all year. That led to higher slotting for Phaneuf and Ceci which completely ruined their effectiveness from the year prior and turned them both in to major liabilities. Then you've got too much riding on the 3rd pairing with nobody of consequence stepping up. All the while goaltending had dropped off hard from the year prior, likely as much their own fault as it was to do with the above.

think how Boucher must feel??? Career probably over thanks to one move.

 

[Sens of Anarchy]

Smith: We have been too wide open and given up too many odd man rushes

Ottawa Senators head coach DJ Smith meets the media ahead of the Sens/Coyotes game tonight in Arizona.

www.tsn.ca

Outscore teams seems to be the goal.
Nothing on preventing goals

 

[BonHoonLayneCornell]

think how Boucher must feel??? Career probably over thanks to one move.

Well, I sure would love to hear his candid opinion of what went wrong.

 

[Sens Vader]

I hate that we have to wait on new ownership for DJ to be canned

 

[coladin]

.500 after 41 games considering the injuries is acceptable. Considering their amazing PK and PP, acceptable.

I think if DJ had his way he would have called up Greig, Sokolov or Crookshank. But the management want those players to develop and it is forcing DJ to ice an inferior lineup.

If Motte, Joseph and Norris were healthy, Lucchini, Gambrell and Brassard don’t see the ice . And Batherson is probably on the 3rd or 4th line. But they don’t have any depth at the moment.

 

[SixthSens]

If DJ does get canned please give Troy Mann the rest of the year up here.

 

[Wondercarrot]

.500 after 41 games considering the injuries is acceptable. Considering their amazing PK and PP, acceptable.

I think if DJ had his way he would have called up Greig, Sokolov or Crookshank. But the management want those players to develop and it is forcing DJ to ice an inferior lineup.

If Motte, Joseph and Norris were healthy, Lucchini, Gambrell and Brassard don’t see the ice . And Batherson is probably on the 3rd or 4th line. But they don’t have any depth at the moment.

Troy Mann disagrees (in terms of the callups).
Really interesting interview with the locked on guys yesterday.

 

[BankStreetParade]

Troy Mann disagrees (in terms of the callups).
Really interesting interview with the locked on guys yesterday.

For those of us who don't have time to listen through, what did he say?

 

[Wondercarrot]

For those of us who don't have time to listen through, what did he say?

He has a specific way of talking so I found the entire interview gave context to the way he discusses his players.
So without that context:
1. JBD is still not back to the level he was when he was called up before his high ankle sprain.
2. Seems to fully believe that JBD and Thomson will eventually be full time contributing NHLers. (JBD as the #1 pk dman over the boards)
3. Sokolov seemed to have a resurgence in his game after Chartier and Luchini were called up. Referred to the half way point meetings they had with the players earlier in the day.
Sounds like Egor was given a wake up call that he’s not the auto call up b/c his stats looked good. Said Chartier and Luchini were absolutely the right callups. They were the best players.
Coaches know if he’s playing properly etc. Told a cool story about how the stages of growing up works with virtually every single kid that comes through the AHL.
1st year - couldn’t be happier to be in the AHL
2nd year - understands the org needs them to work on things and is fine with being there
3rd - they wonder if the org has lost confidence in them, if they are in the plans etc.
So it sounds like the kids that keep their heads screwed on right and persevere through step 3 have a much higher chance of succeeding. Just the nature of 20-23 year olds.

4. Talked about Crookshank, that was interesting. I assumed he was a natural defensive player with some ability with the puck and a non stop engine.
The guys asked if he was like Kelly which I thought was a comparable as well.
What he really is is a a guy who will do absolutely anything to score goals. He will destroy himself and the opponent to get to the dirty areas, completely fearless. Sort of like a smaller Brady, (he did not imply he had Brady’s talent). His motor is off the charts, but not as smooth a skater as Kelly. (Not lesser skater necessarily). They said their job is to try to turn him into as close to a 200’ player as they can before he can be called up. Does not consider him a PK guy.

I found that interesting since I think we all sort of assume that we should just bring him up, stick him on the 4th line and be an energy guy, who plays good D.
Sounds like if he makes it, he’s more of 3rd line Gallagher.

That’s all I can remember right now!

 

[Joeyjoejoe]

.500 after 41 games considering the injuries is acceptable. Considering their amazing PK and PP, acceptable.

I think if DJ had his way he would have called up Greig, Sokolov or Crookshank. But the management want those players to develop and it is forcing DJ to ice an inferior lineup.

If Motte, Joseph and Norris were healthy, Lucchini, Gambrell and Brassard don’t see the ice . And Batherson is probably on the 3rd or 4th line. But they don’t have any depth at the moment.

lol Other teams have lost more important guys than we have and are still playoff teams. We aren't even one of the worst injured teams in the league.

The Leafs lost their entire top 4 D core for like a month and were still one the better defensive teams in the league, and that's playing in front of Matt Murray. Excuses after excuses. Good teams have a structure and a system set in place that once injuries occur, the next man up can hold it down for the time being until they get healthy again, and the whole team doesn't crumble because it lost an important piece.

Structure and systems isn't part of DJ's vocabulary. Playing 'hard' isn't a system.

 

[bert]

lol Other teams have lost more important guys than we have and are still playoff teams. We aren't even one of the worst injured teams in the league.

The Leafs lost their entire top 4 D core for like a month and were still one the better defensive teams in the league, and that's playing in front of Matt Murray. Excuses after excuses. Good teams have a structure and a system set in place that once injuries occur, the next man up can hold it down for the time being until they get healthy again, and the whole team doesn't crumble because it lost an important piece.

Structure and systems isn't part of DJ's vocabulary. Playing 'hard' isn't a system.

While I agree the sens injuries are not the worst other teams have definitely had worse the bolded is absurd. He has forgot more about hockey than anyone that posts here here knows about it.

If you want to complain about accountability, or how he distributes the ice time etc sure. He is too loyal to some players and doesnt reward ice time for performance which comes back to accountability. The team absolutely has systems.

Dorion is the real problem.

 

[swiftwin]

lol Other teams have lost more important guys than we have and are still playoff teams.

Lmao, the literal Stanley Cup champs are out of the playoffs right now because of injuries. We're only 2 points behind the Avs. Stop making shitty excuses for not understanding hockey systems.

 

[Sens of Anarchy]

If DJ does get canned please give Troy Mann the rest of the year up here.

I know their roles are different but there is a huge difference in their interviews , talking about their teams and how they want them to play. Troy is so much more analytical and specific on details of the game. When I listen to DJ its like listening to one of the boys at the bar. Now that in itself means next to nothing but there is a difference. Boucher was analytical and detailed as well. He was just regimented to a fault. I think Troy can break things down frame by frame and moment by moment and can teach and communicate specifics . Where as DJ knows what he sees and knows what he wants but I don't think he as that same break down ability. Just what I am collecting from the view I get. Overall effectiveness is hard to compare wrt measuring outcomes . Both have had good results regarding growth with their players.

An example

vs

 

[BonHoonLayneCornell]

While I agree the sens injuries are not the worst other teams have definitely had worse the bolded is absurd. He has forgot more about hockey than anyone that posts here here knows about it.

If you want to complain about accountability, or how he distributes the ice time etc sure. He is too loyal to some players and doesnt reward ice time for performance which comes back to accountability the team has systems.

Dorion is the real problem.

TBF, that would apply to every NHL coach ever, assistants and AHL coaches included, and we know how many of them haven't been able to get results over the years.

Lmao, the literal Stanley Cup champs are out of the playoffs right now because of injuries. We're only 2 points behind the Avs. Stop making shitty excuses for not understanding hockey systems.

Colorado is a big disappointment though, injuries or not.

 

[Cosmix]

there is a documentary on Bein Sports on Louis Van Gaal (Dutch coach/Manager, was also a manager of Barcelona, Ajax, Man United and others). It is a few years old and in Spanish, so you have to strain to understand..Either understanding Spanish or correlating it to French can help.

They asked about the Dutch total Football concept. And he explained it in real easy terms. Constant motion of players to ensure a constant triangle. So that a player who posses the ball always has two or more passing options. This takes away the need for him to dribble around players or to kick the ball away in panic and in an attempt to get it out of harms way..

Hockey is the same, a player always needs two options to quickly and effectively pass the puck off and out of trouble. A d-man who is deep in his own zone needs a player on the half board and a center looping to give him two possible targets. If those two are not there, he is in trouble. And must either try and skate/stick handle out or shoot the puck out. Both are difficult. I am hoping that you have played the game and possibly played it on defense. You will understand.

that is part of structure.... and is part of system.

Total Football can also be Total Hockey. Only it is more important in hockey, the puck cannot go out and allow your team time to regroup. You loose it, it can be in the back of your net.

I agree that Hockey is similar to Football (soccer), having played both and read various hockey strategy and coaching materials, and taken many CAHA hockey coaching courses.

However, the D with the puck needs to have more passing options, not just two. There are 5 other players on his team on the ice, which includes the 3Fs the other D and the goaltender. All could be options for a pass if the D is being pressured in his own D zone.

The tight defensive play of some teams takes away some of those options such as:
- the two opposing D may cover two of his team's forwards in the N zone.
- The 3 opposing Fs could be playing tight coverage in the D zone to make passing to the Fs difficult and dangerous.

The D with the puck needs to assess which of his team's players may be open or will become open to receive a pass without taking undue risks. This could include the goaltender if he has puck handling ability.

If the D can skate with the puck it makes it so much easier to exit the D zone because it adds to the options for exiting the D zone. That is one reason I appreciate offensive D, including a D like Brannstrom who has puck handling ability. Of course I like D like Makar and Karlsson better.

 

[coladin]

lol Other teams have lost more important guys than we have and are still playoff teams. We aren't even one of the worst injured teams in the league.

The Leafs lost their entire top 4 D core for like a month and were still one the better defensive teams in the league, and that's playing in front of Matt Murray. Excuses after excuses. Good teams have a structure and a system set in place that once injuries occur, the next man up can hold it down for the time being until they get healthy again, and the whole team doesn't crumble because it lost an important piece.

Structure and systems isn't part of DJ's vocabulary. Playing 'hard' isn't a system.

A lot of the losses i November were due to the players no scoring. They created a ton of chances, but did not convert. That is reflected in the underlying numbers anf the guys are still having a hard time scoring 5 on 5. DJ can't put the puck in the net. I know you want to blame the coach, but the numbers don't lie.

Toronto's forwards have been healthy. And they have the puck a lot. Credit to their coaches, for sure. But Norris is the No, 1 center on this team, and he has the puck a lot. Pinto and others are not in his league yet. Ottawa doesn't have the depth to replace a No. 1 center, and two top 9 forwards. The fact that they have been able to be this good on special teams speaks to coaching.

He is not perfect, of course, but I am far form convinced that firing him is the right decision

 

[BonHoonLayneCornell]

I don't understand what we had to lose by going with an interim option as a hail mary knowing DJ isn't going to be back next year either way. At this point in the season its probably pointless, but it would have been nice to see earlier on just to see if it would be the kick in the pants the team needed. New coach effect and all that.

 

[Micklebot]

I don't understand what we had to lose by going with an interim option as a hail mary knowing DJ isn't going to be back next year either way. At this point in the season its probably pointless, but it would have been nice to see earlier on just to see if it would be the kick in the pants the team needed. New coach effect and all that.

It would likely mean losing the interim guy, for exams if we brought up Troy Mann, does he then get caught up in the end of year cleaning of the house?

We could have gone with Capuano I suppose.
..

 

[Ice-Tray]

I don't understand what we had to lose by going with an interim option as a hail mary knowing DJ isn't going to be back next year either way. At this point in the season its probably pointless, but it would have been nice to see earlier on just to see if it would be the kick in the pants the team needed. New coach effect and all that.

Probably because you don’t really treat people that way. Firing people on a whim seems a bit drastic if not cruel, especially when DJ had paid his dues over the course of the rebuild.

Most people around the league felt that DJ deserved a go with a team that actually had some expectations on it after having toiled with a developmental team for the previous three years.

It also would have been pretty disingenuous to bring in a new coach for a one year stint if, as you say, the entire staff will be cleared out at years end.

Far better to give DJ his shot, and everyone do their best with the time they have left if they are all to be dismissed at years end. These are all people with employment relationships and mutual respect and such, I don’t think we give these real life things enough credit in here sometimes.

 

[BonHoonLayneCornell]

It would likely mean losing the interim guy, for exams if we brought up Troy Mann, does he then get caught up in the end of year cleaning of the house?

We could have gone with Capuano I suppose.
..

Ya, I suppose that would be something to consider.

And I guess if someone is in the line of thinking that DJ has a shot to return next year, then it's not quite the same scenario as it is in my head.

 

[BonHoonLayneCornell]

Probably because you don’t really treat people that way. Firing people on a whim seems a bit drastic if not cruel, especially when DJ had paid his dues over the course of the rebuild.

Most people around the league felt that DJ deserved a go with a team that actually had some expectations on it after having toiled with a developmental team for the previous three years.

It also would have been pretty disingenuous to bring in a new coach for a one year stint if, as you say, the entire staff will be cleared out at years end.

Far better to give DJ his shot, and everyone do their best with the time they have left if they are all to be dismissed at years end. These are all people with employment relationships and mutual respect and such, I don’t think we give these real life things enough credit in here sometimes.

That's not how I feel about it in the realm of pro sports, but to each their own. It's a cutthroat business and I feel like he did get his shot in the first month or so this year and that's when I would have made the change if it were me. Whatever though, its a matter of getting through 40 more games and regrouping no matter who's behind the bench.

 

[Mingus Dew]

Probably because you don’t really treat people that way. Firing people on a whim seems a bit drastic if not cruel, especially when DJ had paid his dues over the course of the rebuild.

Most people around the league felt that DJ deserved a go with a team that actually had some expectations on it after having toiled with a developmental team for the previous three years.

It also would have been pretty disingenuous to bring in a new coach for a one year stint if, as you say, the entire staff will be cleared out at years end.

Far better to give DJ his shot, and everyone do their best with the time they have left if they are all to be dismissed at years end. These are all people with employment relationships and mutual respect and such, I don’t think we give these real life things enough credit in here sometimes.

These men coach a children's game for millions (perhaps hundreds of thousands in DJ's case) a year . And most of them are still getting paid after they get axed.

It's not really a normal employment relationship.

 

[Ice-Tray]

These men coach a children's game for millions (perhaps hundreds of thousands in DJ's case) a year . And most of them are still getting paid after they get axed.

It's not really a normal employment relationship.

I don’t really agree with this generalization.

Getting fired from a job before getting chance to shine is shitty no matter how much you get paid, especially when all future employment of its kind depends on it.

It’s a bit disingenuous to call it adults coaching a child’s game. It is a sport that both kids and adults play obviously, but it’s not much different than any form of employment that you play at as a kid for fun in that regard. I mean lawyers get paid to put a stamp on things, like kids do in art class…

I will agree say that I think we put waaaaay to much money into entertainment. The distribution of wealth to jobs that serve little practical value relatively is remarkable.

That's not how I feel about it in the realm of pro sports, but to each their own. It's a cutthroat business and I feel like he did get his shot in the first month or so this year and that's when I would have made the change if it were me. Whatever though, its a matter of getting through 40 more games and regrouping no matter who's behind the bench.

It’s not really as cut throat as fans like to think or want to be honest. In our organization alone we see moves made thr may not get the best return, but are best for the player who is moving.

We seem to forget that these are people, and it isn’t really cut throat corporate at that level.

 

[BonHoonLayneCornell]

It’s not really as cut throat as fans like to think or want to be honest. In our organization alone we see moves made thr may not get the best return, but are best for the player who is moving.

We seem to forget that these are people, and it isn’t really cut throat corporate at that level.

I'll re-phrase it. It's a results oriented business.

I do think we have shown not to be, but I see a lot it elsewhere and would like to see it leach in a bit more in Ottawa as well.

 

[Mingus Dew]

I don’t really agree with this generalization.

Getting fired from a job before getting chance to shine is shitty no matter how much you get paid, especially when all future employment of its kind depends on it.

It’s a bit disingenuous to call it adults coaching a child’s game. It is a sport that both kids and adults play obviously, but it’s not much different than any form of employment that you play at as a kid for fun in that regard. I mean lawyers get paid to put a stamp on things, like kids do in art class…

I will agree say that I think we put waaaaay to much money into entertainment. The distribution of wealth to jobs that serve little practical value relatively is remarkable.


It’s not really as cut throat as fans like to think or want to be honest. In our organization alone we see moves made thr may not get the best return, but are best for the player who is moving.

We seem to forget that these are people, and it isn’t really cut throat corporate at that level.

I’m not going to sit here and act like I don’t pay a ton to watch people play hockey. But it’s a game at the end of the day. Pro sports is fantasy land. Anyone that gets to coach or play even for a few months should be extremely grateful for the opportunity. DJ doesn’t deserve more than he’s gotten - he basically won the lottery.

And transactional lawyers are useless obviously, I’ll be the first to admit. We’re just clever leeches.

Litigators are the real deal though.