Proposal: Fire DJ Smith

[swiftwin]

If this was a one off I’d be inclined to agree. It happens too often to the Sens.

I’d also be inclined to agree if it was a few players or even a few lines starting slow with others making their presence known.

Unfortunately with the Sens we see it too often that the whole team looks asleep for long periods.

It’s just like any other workplace, at some point it has to be a shared responsibility and when the whole team isn’t ready it’s probably leadership’s fault.

You have to remember that there are two teams out there. Momentum swings are a part of hockey. I just find it silly when some people always act like the Sens are the only actor in these intra-game momentum swings.

Last week against Dallas, we had an extremely strong first period. But had a week 3rd period which forced the game to OT. Did we have a strong first period? or was it Dallas that was "unprepared because of bad coaching"?

What about our first game against Vegas? Where we came back from being down 5-1 to 5-4 in the 3rd period? Was that because we started playing well? Or was it because Vegas took their foot off the gas "because of bad coaching"? Or did Vegas win that game because they're a veteran team that did exactly what they needed to win the game and nothing more? How is that any different from last night? Did we take our foot off the gas, or did the Habs start playing well? (or got lucky?)

There are two teams on the ice, and there's alot of luck variability. To try to come up with trends like this and try to pin it on the coach is total nonsense. These kinds of swings happen to every team in every game. These momentum swings can be any combination of the home team playing better/worse, away team playing better/worse, home team getting lucky/unlucky, away team getting lucky/unlucky. That's four variables, and you're only looking at one variable, through the lens of your team playing better/worse and ignoring everything else and trying to come up with trends.

 

[Tuna99]

You have to remember that there are two teams out there. Momentum swings are a part of hockey. I just find it silly when some people always act like the Sens are the only actor in these intra-game momentum swings.

Last week against Dallas, we had an extremely strong first period. But had a week 3rd period which forced the game to OT. Did we have a strong first period? or was it Dallas that was "unprepared because of bad coaching"?

What about our first game against Vegas? Where we came back from being down 5-1 to 5-4 in the 3rd period? Was that because we started playing well? Or was it because Vegas took their foot off the gas "because of bad coaching"? Or did Vegas win that game because they're a veteran team that did exactly what they needed to win the game and nothing more? How is that any different from last night? Did we take our foot off the gas, or did the Habs start playing well? (or got lucky?)

There are two teams on the ice, and there's alot of luck variability. To try to come up with trends like this and try to pin it on the coach is total nonsense. These kinds of swings happen to every team in every game. These momentum swings can be any combination of the home team playing better/worse, away team playing better/worse, home team getting lucky/unlucky, away team getting lucky/unlucky. That's four variables, and you're only looking at one variable, through the lens of your team playing better/worse and ignoring everything else and trying to come up with trends.

DJ Smith has 4 years of the Ottawa Senators slot being a turn-style for any NHL a player who wants a goal and he’s lost to more backup goalies then any coach in the last 20 years i’ll bet my life on that.

This isn’t a team that went to the finals like Dallas and Vegas has teams with hardware like MVPs and Norris finalist.

Until DJ has brought glory to the team and until this team is legit within a playoff spot - comparing him to teams that have done amazing things is unfair to those teams. It would be like comparing the Alfie Senators teams who were dominating to a bottom feeder and saying they are the coaches the same. Just unfair with DJs track record

 

[Loach]

DJ might be as good as people here say he is...but it won't happen here. Perhaps he needs a change to do the best he can. Bowness coached the Sens once.

 

[coladin]

Team has been playing the same way, same structure. Now getting key goals and key saves at the right times. Guys aren't padding stats, they are scoring when it matters, my complaint all along about this team.

The team is playing the exact same way, and their underlying numbers will eventually continue to have them catch teams. Credit to the coaching staff not panicking and keeping the players beleiving in each other and the system

 

[OD99]

That’s not really where I see the angst though.

I see some fans being super defensive and resistant to enjoying the teams recent successes because they already double and tripled down on everyone needing to be benched and fired, and that the season is a write off.

It’s just what fans do. Some fans complain endlessly about the team, and some fans defend it endlessly.

It’s been the way in here for years and years.

That's fair and I think the initial, "sorry DJ" was poking fun, I just wanted to point out that DJ really hasn't had it rough here, at all.

4 years in he basically had no expectations and whether unlucky or not this season is the 1st one where the fans had some real belief the team could play exciting and competitive hockey and those expectations fell flat. He will get another full season with us, I believe, and if the current trend continues he will generate a lot of good will but if we lose 4 of the next 5 and really cement being a bottom dweller then he should feel uncomfortable.

 

[Tuna99]

Sens need to at a minimum go 2-1 on the road trip and they’ll be .500 on the road and at home all season which is a big start. Sens need a winning road record to start passing teams.

 

[swiftwin]

Sens need to at a minimum go 2-1 on the road trip and they’ll be .500 on the road and at home all season which is a big start. Sens need a winning road record to start passing teams.

The Sens are already .500 on the road this season, which is better than their home record. Which is funny, because "DJ can't coach on the road" was a rallying cry around here for a while.

 

[Micklebot]

The Jekyll or Hyde performance has been a staple of the Sens under DJ.

I’d argue neither cut out sample is representative only the whole picture is. A wildly inconsistent team who generally puts in hard work but is very mistake prone and can’t rely on systems to sustain the more difficult nights.

Overall he’s still not the guy who can take this team to the next level and needs to be replaced (along with Dorion) when a new owner takes control.

I don't think there are a lot of games that we've won this year where I can say we really didn't deserve that one. There were more than a couple during that small 7 game stretch you could make are argument we deserved a better fate for though.

If we stayed more healthy, we're probably in the mix for a wild card spot right now. The margins for winning and losing, particularly in the bulk of our loses this year have been razor thin.

I don't think DJ is an ideal coach for us, I'm far from his biggest fan and would like to see us bring in a more established guy with new ownership, but I do think he gets far more flack than he deserves

 

[Golden_Jet]

DJ Smith has 4 years of the Ottawa Senators slot being a turn-style for any NHL a player who wants a goal and he’s lost to more backup goalies then any coach in the last 20 years i’ll bet my life on that.

That wouldn’t be a good bet for you.

 

[JD1]

No we kidding. We still not even 500 and people out here full force defending the guy after some games vs the bottom of the barrel, lmfao.

Until we are very close to a playoff position, there should be radio silence on their behalf. We are still in many ways playing structureless hockey.

Please explain how structureless hockey leads to

7th in CF% at 5 on 5
10th in SF%
9th in xGF%
8th in SCF%
11th in HDCF%

Seriously. Please explain how a lack of structure leads to these numbers 5 on 5 after 29 games.

Those numbers aren't luck. They're not good bounces. Those numbers are earned. And in order to earn them, you need to move the puck out of your end with some degree of efficiency. You need the puck in your opponent's end more than it is in your end.

Now, let's say you're right. We're structureless. So we bring a task master that preaches structure. Then what? We go to 1st in all those numbers?

I'll anxiously await your reply. I'm really interested in the learning opportunity here because I can't for the life of me equate those numbers with structureless hockey. I'm an eager learner so I'm all ears here.

 

[Big Muddy]

Please explain how structureless hockey leads to

7th in CF% at 5 on 5
10th in SF%
9th in xGF%
8th in SCF%
11th in HDCF%

Seriously. Please explain how a lack of structure leads to these numbers 5 on 5 after 29 games.

Those numbers aren't luck. They're not good bounces. Those numbers are earned. And in order to earn them, you need to move the puck out of your end with some degree of efficiency. You need the puck in your opponent's end more than it is in your end.

Now, let's say you're right. We're structureless. So we bring a task master that preaches structure. Then what? We go to 1st in all those numbers?

I'll anxiously await your reply. I'm really interested in the learning opportunity here because I can't for the life of me equate those numbers with structureless hockey. I'm an eager learner so I'm all ears here.

Also:

GA 12th
CA 13th
xGA 13th
HDGA 19th
HDCA 15th
HDSA 19th

Not quite as good, but decent/not bad for sure.

 

[Bileur]

I don't think there are a lot of games that we've won this year where I can say we really didn't deserve that one. There were more than a couple during that small 7 game stretch you could make are argument we deserved a better fate for though.

If we stayed more healthy, we're probably in the mix for a wild card spot right now. The margins for winning and losing, particularly in the bulk of our loses this year have been razor thin.

I don't think DJ is an ideal coach for us, I'm far from his biggest fan and would like to see us bring in a more established guy with new ownership, but I do think he gets far more flack than he deserves

I think the top two paragraphs are fair contextual points.

I also think there are other fair contextual points to consider. For instance, as the team improves from a bottom dweller to a playoff contender it is only natural for the margin of victory or defeat to narrow. There should be far more close games and far fewer blowouts. Ultimately, while moral victories are nice, results matter even more as we improve.

Similarly, when the margin of victory is narrowed, the importance of individual roster decisions is increased. Starting Zaitsev in the NHL when he had a terrible preseason matters. Differently than losing a Norris to be sure, but it has an impact. JBD looked far better than early season Z in his callup. Now Z seems better after his wake up call. Maybe doing this earlier would have helped?

I also think it’s fair to say that the early part of the season was relatively easy for the Sens in terms of opponents and schedule. Injuries threw a wrench into that to be sure, but the schedule and opponents were part of thr consideration leading almost everyone to conclude a good start was essential.

I disagree with the last paragraph. Ottawa has the softest media in Canada. Answering softballs from Gord and Bruce post game couldn’t be easier and the main stream media is generally very easy on the team. You have to look to podcasts like the one with Wally, York and Bobby Ryan to have people questioning the system and saying they’re trying to understand what’s going on and not getting it.

You’ll get an occasional TSN1200 guy make a comment but it’s pretty inconsistent.

Even in our isolated nerd community he has a decent core of very vocal supporters so it rarely gets completely negative like you’d see in many other markets.

 

[Micklebot]

I think the top two paragraphs are fair contextual points.

I also think there are other fair contextual points to consider. For instance, as the team improves from a bottom dweller to a playoff contender it is only natural for the margin of victory or defeat to narrow. There should be far more close games and far fewer blowouts. Ultimately, while moral victories are nice, results matter even more as we improve.

Similarly, when the margin of victory is narrowed, the importance of individual roster decisions is increased. Starting Zaitsev in the NHL when he had a terrible preseason matters. Differently than losing a Norris to be sure, but it has an impact. JBD looked far better than early season Z in his callup. Now Z seems better after his wake up call. Maybe doing this earlier would have helped?

I also think it’s fair to say that the early part of the season was relatively easy for the Sens in terms of opponents and schedule. Injuries threw a wrench into that to be sure, but the schedule and opponents were part of thr consideration leading almost everyone to conclude a good start was essential.

I disagree with the last paragraph. Ottawa has the softest media in Canada. Answering softballs from Gord and Bruce post game couldn’t be easier and the main stream media is generally very easy on the team. You have to look to podcasts like the one with Wally, York and Bobby Ryan to have people questioning the system and saying they’re trying to understand what’s going on and not getting it.

You’ll get an occasional TSN1200 guy make a comment but it’s pretty inconsistent.

Even in our isolated nerd community he has a decent core of very vocal supporters so it rarely gets completely negative like you’d see in many other markets.

Well I'm not talking about the media, I'm talking about here, the flak he gets here, on this site. The existence of over the top supporters here does not mean the over the top flak he gets from critics is fair or deserved, they are not mutually exclusive. I'm critical of both absurd praise and absurd criticism.

 

[Burrowsaurus]

All games count the same. Wins are worth 2 points, OTL 1 point, and 0 for a loss. Doesn't matter if it's October or March.

Cmon. Absolutely does

 

[Alex1234]

The Sens are already .500 on the road this season, which is better than their home record. Which is funny, because "DJ can't coach on the road" was a rallying cry around here for a while.

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The Sens are NOT already .500 on the road this season, wich is NOT better than their home record.

 

[Ice-Tray]

Well I'm not talking about the media, I'm talking about here, the flak he gets here, on this site. The existence of over the top supporters here does not mean the over the top flak he gets from critics is fair or deserved, they are not mutually exclusive. I'm critical of both absurd praise and absurd criticism.

Does he get absurd praise in here though?

 

[swiftwin]

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www.nhl.com

NHL Regular Season Standings

Get the latest comprehensive coverage of the NHL, including a detailed League, Conference and Wildcard standings. Atlantic Division, Metropolitan Division, Central Division, Pacific Division, Eastern Conference, Western Conference.

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Sports News, Scores, Fantasy Games

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Visit ESPN for the complete 2024-25 NHL season standings. Includes league, conference and division standings for regular season and playoffs.

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Get the latest NHL Hockey standings from across the league. Follow your favorite team through the 2024-25 season. 2024-25 team records, home and away records, win percentage, current streak, and more on CBSSports.com

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The Sens are NOT already .500 on the road this season, wich is NOT better than their home record.

lmfao, calm down bud. I misread it, the nhl columns get all f***ed up on mobile.

 

[swiftwin]

Does he get absurd praise in here though?

I don't think anyone on here does.

 

[ReginKarlssonLehner]

Please explain how structureless hockey leads to

7th in CF% at 5 on 5
10th in SF%
9th in xGF%
8th in SCF%
11th in HDCF%

Seriously. Please explain how a lack of structure leads to these numbers 5 on 5 after 29 games.

Tbh, I also believe we have had a huge chunk of bad luck. But I also believe those above numbers are because of the insane talent we have on this team. The fact that we are last in our division is a testament that the coach has not been able to utilize that skill in a manner that has led to wins. Our team play seems to literally compose of grind hockey with skill players having to be creative in bursts to make things happen. We do not have set plays, we do not have plays that demonstrate practiced creative structure. Plain and simple. Moreover, the bigger picture is demonstrated by @Big Muddy's post where the defensive side is a pretty notable difference. Think about it, we have 6 first liners on this team. No matter what, you cannot hold those guys back. What you can do is find ways to make them less effective overall.

You see NJD? That should be us. They're doing far more with less than what we have. We should be top 3 in the division.

Again, Big Muddy did a good job to show the other side of the coin that demonstrates our weak structure coming back the other way.

We have 6 first liners (1 has been injured extended time)
We have a calder candidate forward
We have a top 15 number 1 D man
we have 2 capable 1b goalies
We have 3 bonafide top 4 defenders (Zub out extended)

We should not be last in our division no matter freaking what.

 

[JD1]

Tbh, I also believe we have had a huge chunk of bad luck. But I also believe those above numbers are because of the insane talent we have on this team. The fact that we are last in our division is a testament that the coach has not been able to utilize that skill in a manner that has led to wins. Our team play seems to literally compose of grind hockey with skill players having to be creative in bursts to make things happen. We do not have set plays, we do not have plays that demonstrate practiced creative structure. Plain and simple. Moreover, the bigger picture is demonstrated by @Big Muddy's post where the defensive side is a pretty notable difference. Think about it, we have 6 first liners on this team. No matter what, you cannot hold those guys back. What you can do is find ways to make them less effective overall.

You see NJD? That should be us. They're doing far more with less than what we have. We should be top 3 in the division.

Again, Big Muddy did a good job to show the other side of the coin that demonstrates our weak structure coming back the other way.

We have 6 first liners (1 has been injured extended time)
We have a calder candidate forward
We have a top 15 number 1 D man
we have 2 capable 1b goalies
We have 3 bonafide top 4 defenders (Zub out extended)

We should not be last in our division no matter freaking what.

This is so weak.

@Big Muddy posted some other stats showing us in the middle third. I only posted stats showing us in the top third. But, inside those stats, the ones I posted are earned, there's an element of luck involved in the ones the big muddy posted because they are more related to goals.

That aside, I think if I put your two posts together what I get is we're totally structureless but we're really just the victims of bad luck. You're the second guy this week that's done the same thing.

Practiced creative structure. That's a mouthful. About that Norris injury. We had a PP that was 100% designed to result in the Norris one timer from the right circle. It worked pretty good too. Norris is gone, good bye right circle shot. Do you see anything similar to how we're scoring PP goals with Norris out? It's completely different yet the success rate and our PP standing in the league is up. Substantially up. Do you think that is random? Do you think that results from the lack of a strategy once we have puck control in the O zone? Do you think that results from a lack of PP practice? A lack of PP structure? I'm thinking the coaching group had to rethink the PP, create a new structure and practice the hell out of it. And it's working. Really well.

Pinto started hot. He got a nice one to get it started against the Habs but he's not ready to be a 2C. I doubt he's a Calder nominee. Jake will get more voted thrown Ottawa's way.

I'm not sure I'd agree that Chabot is a top 15 D. Top 30 sure. But regardless, prior to his injury, he was playing with his head up his ass. He was awful. He's been much better and the results are showing. Maybe DJ and the boys on the bench should have got the grease out earlier and worked Chabot's head out of his ass.

Those top 4 D? Between them have missed 25% of the man games played. There's an impact there. Moreso on the right side. Part of that impact was a turn around with Chabot out.

I like our goaltending and I think by year's end when we look back, overall it will be a strength. But they've let in their share of softies.

You sure didn't explain any lack of structure. If you're going to make such an assertion, you should at least be able to explain yourself

 

[ReginKarlssonLehner]

This is so weak.

@Big Muddy posted some other stats showing us in the middle third. I only posted stats showing us in the top third. But, inside those stats, the ones I posted are earned, there's an element of luck involved in the ones the big muddy posted because they are more related to goals.

That aside, I think if I put your two posts together what I get is we're totally structureless but we're really just the victims of bad luck. You're the second guy this week that's done the same thing.

Practiced creative structure. That's a mouthful. About that Norris injury. We had a PP that was 100% designed to result in the Norris one timer from the right circle. It worked pretty good too. Norris is gone, good bye right circle shot. Do you see anything similar to how we're scoring PP goals with Norris out? It's completely different yet the success rate and our PP standing in the league is up. Substantially up. Do you think that is random? Do you think that results from the lack of a strategy once we have puck control in the O zone? Do you think that results from a lack of PP practice? A lack of PP structure? I'm thinking the coaching group had to rethink the PP, create a new structure and practice the hell out of it. And it's working. Really well.

Pinto started hot. He got a nice one to get it started against the Habs but he's not ready to be a 2C. I doubt he's a Calder nominee. Jake will get more voted thrown Ottawa's way.

I'm not sure I'd agree that Chabot is a top 15 D. Top 30 sure. But regardless, prior to his injury, he was playing with his head up his ass. He was awful. He's been much better and the results are showing. Maybe DJ and the boys on the bench should have got the grease out earlier and worked Chabot's head out of his ass.

Those top 4 D? Between them have missed 25% of the man games played. There's an impact there. Moreso on the right side. Part of that impact was a turn around with Chabot out.

I like our goaltending and I think by year's end when we look back, overall it will be a strength. But they've let in their share of softies.

You sure didn't explain any lack of structure. If you're going to make such an assertion, you should at least be able to explain yourself

A whole lot of excuses for a team that is last in its division and playing below 500 hockey.

If you think we have a legit structure in place, I applaud you. I am starting to see bits of it, but I feel we are not yet maximizing the talent on this team. There is a reason why the PP is 1st in the league but 5on5 we are 30th in goals over the last month. One is allowing our star players to shine with what they do best, the other requires stronger structural management and practice by the team.

It is why I am a huge advocate for another top 4 D, only then will we truly be able to overcome the limitations of the grit-style hockey we are seeing from DJ.

I want to see this team go 7-2-1 in the next 10 before I make any type of applause to DJ. 4 games upcoming should be sure wins if what we are seeing from the boys now = them abiding/buying in to a certain structure we have seen in the previous 10. The other 6 should be 3-3.

 

[Big Muddy]

@Big Muddy posted some other stats showing us in the middle third. I only posted stats showing us in the top third. But, inside those stats, the ones I posted are earned, there's an element of luck involved in the ones the big muddy posted because they are more related to goals.

There's the offense side of hockey and the defense side of hockey. I just posted the defensive type of metrics seeing as you had already provided the offensive metrics. When put you the two together, you get the complete picture. jmho.

 

[GCK]

A whole lot of excuses for a team that is last in its division and playing below 500 hockey.

If you think we have a legit structure in place, I applaud you. I am starting to see bits of it, but I feel we are not yet maximizing the talent on this team. There is a reason why the PP is 1st in the league but 5on5 we are 30th in goals over the last month. One is allowing our star players to shine with what they do best, the other requires stronger structural management and practice by the team.

It is why I am a huge advocate for another top 4 D, only then will we truly be able to overcome the limitations of the grit-style hockey we are seeing from DJ.

I want to see this team go 7-2-1 in the next 10 before I make any type of applause to DJ. 4 games upcoming should be sure wins if what we are seeing from the boys now = them abiding/buying in to a certain structure we have seen in the previous 10. The other 6 should be 3-3.

DJ is not the best coach in the league but he’s definitely not the worst. You talk about the lack of structure consistently and blame the coach for not having a system which in my opinion is just lazy and lets players off the hook for terrible reads and decisions. My biggest issue with DJ is accountability for the players and I’ll admit that there could very well be accountability in private. The dump and chase style was implemented because our players were turning it over at the blue line at an unsustainable rate causing a very high amount of rush chances against. Like you I’d like to see some more zone entries but our possession numbers are climbing as we are recovering the dumps at a higher rate lately.

 

[Micklebot]

A whole lot of excuses for a team that is last in its division and playing below 500 hockey.

If you think we have a legit structure in place, I applaud you. I am starting to see bits of it, but I feel we are not yet maximizing the talent on this team. There is a reason why the PP is 1st in the league but 5on5 we are 30th in goals over the last month. One is allowing our star players to shine with what they do best, the other requires stronger structural management and practice by the team.

It is why I am a huge advocate for another top 4 D, only then will we truly be able to overcome the limitations of the grit-style hockey we are seeing from DJ.

I want to see this team go 7-2-1 in the next 10 before I make any type of applause to DJ. 4 games upcoming should be sure wins if what we are seeing from the boys now = them abiding/buying in to a certain structure we have seen in the previous 10. The other 6 should be 3-3.

I'd love to see a detailed explanation of why our lack of structure has resulted in us being last in 5v5 goals over the last month, from what I've seen we've been getting lots of scoring chances, and that's backed up by the metrics. Typically structure can get you chances but skill allows you to finish on them.

 

[Sens Vader]

I think we just look lost in our zone most nights. Terrible at supporting each other down low (forwards fly the zone way too quickly) and were crap on switches knowing who is covering who. From the blueline back its a mess IMO

Our forecheck, neutral zone pressure & tracking have been pretty good - great when we're on our game id say. We also have a cycle game this year which we never had the previous 3, although it's still just decent. The main reason for that is we have more talent up front

In the end, it's not "the coach doesn't have structure" - it's not like the good coaches have some magical game plan hidden away in a book somewhere. Good coaches get players to execute, and you do that through practice drills, video, and communication.

A great boxing coach doesn't know how to throw a jab better than an average coach, he knows how to drill it so its automatic and can be performed under pressure.

the story of the last 3 seasons have been horrible starts, then .500 hockey, then ending it with a stretch of winning hockey. DJ is gone next season but just let me watch a battle for a playoff spot please.

Get to .500 or above by Christmas, get healthy, get on a roll