Proposal: Fire DJ Smith

[BonHoonLayneCornell]

If things keep going poorly, I think it sends the right message to put Jack in as interim.

If DJ treads water back to ~.500, then he probably gets to finish the year.

Either way, a new coach next year is basically a guarantee.

 

[bicboi64]

Then you likely lose Mann from the org altogether when new ownership cleans the slate. seems short sighted if you like Mann as your AHL coach.

Firing DJ now is reactionary and doesn't really accomplish much if anything. We aren't salvaging this season, we aren't finding a long term replacement without new ownership in place, better off just waiting it out and doing it right the first time.

I think Mann will be let go of by new ownership regardless. Keeping DJ sends a message of mediocrity to the players. It just screams there's no consequences for not showing up.

Unless of course Dorion is committed to a lotto pick, in that case keep DJ

 

[Ice-Tray]

Nobody within the org seems to want to fire DJ, and both GM and players have been very vocal in support, so there is that I guess.

Like it or not we should probably neither be surprised, nor accusing them of being cowards for sticking to their very publicly shared convictions.

 

[swiftwin]

I think Mann will be let go of by new ownership regardless. Keeping DJ sends a message of mediocrity to the players. It just screams there's no consequences for not showing up.

Unless of course Dorion is committed to a lotto pick, in that case keep DJ

Who's not showing up?

 

[thinkwild]

It's not that i necessarily want to defend DJ but more that i want to reject the idea that we fire him because we are mad and we want to send a message,. That the the players will then wake up and try harder after seeing that message.

I dont find the arguments about slow starts for the last several years too compelling either since the last few years have been treading water at the rock bottom until some of the newly drafted players started to emerge. This is a completely different year.

And even with all the excitement of the summer moves, that just gave us table stakes to start competing for a playoff spot. The start of the long build now that the rebuild is over.

The fact that we are still trying to find our feet isnt too surprising. Its how we overcome this adversity that is the measure. I want to see how that goes first. And i dont expect that to be too quick given how young the team is.

Maybe if the team wasnt seemingly close to a sale id be a little less patient. But what's the wins above replacement of a new coach right now? 1? 3? Oooh.

 

[bert]

back from road trip was the thinking

pretty pathetic on behalf of the ownership and management of this team to let this go on. ALl the talk in the summer was about increased expectations and how a slow start would not be tolerated.

Seeing this train wreck over and over again is also not good for the important players we need to sign.

The right msg needs to be sent that losing this much should not be tolerated

There is no way any prospective buyer wants another coach on the books when they are just going to choose their own. It's obvious. Fans are just going to have to accept this.

Promote Mann to take over or Jack. Make some sort of change to atleast get the attention of the players

DJ has to go. The msg needs to be clear that this is unacceptable. Also I find it hard to believe that Dorion is allowed to make a trade move million dollar assets around but can't bring in a new coach to finish the year off

He probably isn't allowed to make any big trades either. Thank God.

Wanting Capuono to take over for DJ?... Really? The d core has been this teams biggest issue.

I think Mann will be let go of by new ownership regardless. Keeping DJ sends a message of mediocrity to the players. It just screams there's no consequences for not showing up.

Unless of course Dorion is committed to a lotto pick, in that case keep DJ

Dorion made this mess. He built the roster he hired DJ and gave him an extension. He's the problem whether people want to admit it or not.

 

[Ice-Tray]

There is no way any prospective buyer wants another coach on the books when they are just going to choose their own. It's obvious. Fans are just going to have to accept this.


He probably isn't allowed to make any big trades either. Thank God.

Wanting Capuono to take over for DJ?... Really? The d core has been this teams biggest issue.


Dorion made this mess. He built the roster he hired DJ and gave him an extension. He's the problem whether people want to admit it or not.

I bet PD has full freedom to operate business as usual. I doubt the board has any involvement beyond approving a budget increase.

That sounds a lot more like fan fantasy vengeance to me.

 

[OgieO]

If we don't make the playoffs I don't see how you could bring him back. He's basically proven he won't have the team performing well to start the year.

 

[Micklebot]

If we don't make the playoffs I don't see how you could bring him back. He's basically proven he won't have the team performing well to start the year.

I don't see him surviving new ownership, but we did go 4-2-0 to start the year before Norris and Zub got hurt and an argument could be made we played well enough to win either of the two loses.

What he has proven imo is that he does not run a tight defensive game, and that's exacerbated by our roster.

 

[Alex1234]

I don't see him surviving new ownership, but we did go 4-2-0 to start the year before Norris and Zub got hurt and an argument could be made we played well enough to win either of the two loses.

What he has proven imo is that he does not run a tight defensive game, and that's exacerbated by our roster.

One could argue its a small sample
Could have been inflated by the acquisitions of the summer (like a new coach excitement thing)

What is more telling to me is 89-116-25 carreer record

 

[HSF]

Imagine flexing a 4-2 start

Is that how low the bar is ? injuries happen….we should not be this bad

 

[Micklebot]

One could argue its a small sample
Could have been inflated by the acquisitions of the summer (like a new coach excitement thing)

What is more telling to me is 89-116-25 carreer record

It certainly was a small sample, but it's the only sample where one can argue the roster itself was competitive.

I'm not really seeing compelling evidence that another coach has a substantially better record with the same roster. That doesn't mean DJ is a great coach, I just think this year was his chance to show what he can do with a decent roster. Imo, the roster as constructed had deficiencies defensively which he failed to compensate for, and those deficiencies were compounded by injuries in our already weakest points, defensive Dmen, and two way centers that can go up against the oppositions scoring lines.

We're 6-6 with Zub in the lineup, that improves to 6-3-0 with both Zub and Chabot. Personally I see a discernable difference in how well the team plays when either of those guys are out, we simple don't have the depth on D to handle their absence with the way DJ has the team playing. You can certainly fault him for not being able to adapt when key guys are out, but to me suggesting he has proven he can't get a team performing well to start a year just ignores the context. I don't think our slow starts land entirely on him, that doesn't mean another coach can't improve upon it but it also acknowledges that another coach may also struggle with the same context.

 

[Bevans]

Promote Mann to take over or Jack. Make some sort of change to atleast get the attention of the players

DJ has to go. The msg needs to be clear that this is unacceptable. Also I find it hard to believe that Dorion is allowed to make a trade move million dollar assets around but can't bring in a new coach to finish the year off

Why would you handcuff new owner like that?

 

[Micklebot]

Imagine flexing a 4-2 start

Is that how low the bar is ? injuries happen….we should not be this bad

Imagine missing the point so completely...

 

[HSF]

Why would you handcuff new owner like that?

How is bringing in an interim coach handcuffing the new owner?

 

[Alex1234]

It certainly was a small sample, but it's the only sample where one can argue the roster itself was competitive.

I'm not really seeing compelling evidence that another coach has a substantially better record with the same roster. That doesn't mean DJ is a great coach, I just think this year was his chance to show what he can do with a decent roster. Imo, the roster as constructed had deficiencies defensively which he failed to compensate for, and those deficiencies were compounded by injuries in our already weakest points, defensive Dmen, and two way centers that can go up against the oppositions scoring lines.

We're 6-6 with Zub in the lineup, that improves to 6-3-0 with both Zub and Chabot. Personally I see a discernable difference in how well the team plays when either of those guys are out, we simple don't have the depth on D to handle their absence with the way DJ has the team playing. You can certainly fault him for not being able to adapt when key guys are out, but to me suggesting he has proven he can't get a team performing well to start a year just ignores the context. I don't think our slow starts land entirely on him, that doesn't mean another coach can't improve upon it but it also acknowledges that another coach may also struggle with the same context.

Fair enough
Also other teams have had injuries and did better

I think the main point for me with DJ is the defensive collapse in the D zone where sometimes nobody seem to know what to do (but maybe that's on Capuano I don't know)

 

[HSF]

It certainly was a small sample, but it's the only sample where one can argue the roster itself was competitive.

I'm not really seeing compelling evidence that another coach has a substantially better record with the same roster. That doesn't mean DJ is a great coach, I just think this year was his chance to show what he can do with a decent roster. Imo, the roster as constructed had deficiencies defensively which he failed to compensate for, and those deficiencies were compounded by injuries in our already weakest points, defensive Dmen, and two way centers that can go up against the oppositions scoring lines.

We're 6-6 with Zub in the lineup, that improves to 6-3-0 with both Zub and Chabot. Personally I see a discernable difference in how well the team plays when either of those guys are out, we simple don't have the depth on D to handle their absence with the way DJ has the team playing. You can certainly fault him for not being able to adapt when key guys are out, but to me suggesting he has proven he can't get a team performing well to start a year just ignores the context. I don't think our slow starts land entirely on him, that doesn't mean another coach can't improve upon it but it also acknowledges that another coach may also struggle with the same context.

We don't know if coaching is the issue. We do know that DJ is not working

Time to try something else.

 

[Micklebot]

Fair enough
Also other teams have had injuries and did better

I think the main point for me with DJ is the defensive collapse in the D zone where sometimes nobody seem to know what to do (but maybe that's on Capuano I don't know)

I don't think it's the fact that we had injuries that's the issue, it's the fact that we don't have depth in the position our injuries occurred. We'd have been able to manage injuries to Batherson and DeBrincat better than Zub and Norris imo.

Our roster doesn't have a lot of good defensive players, Zub and Norris, maybe Pinto as he develops. Losing Paul and Brown took away from our forward groups compentency at helping out defensively when injuries happen, guys like Tkachuk, Batherson, Giroux, DeBrincat and Stü are always thinking offence, we don't have a lot of guys where defensive play is natural.

To me, roster construction compounds the problems caused by injuries, I think a coach who specializes in defensive systems might be better suited to adapt than DJ to our specific context.

I'm not really a fan of DJs coaching, I just think the way things have gone are close to worst case scenario for him. I personally am more critical of his unforced errors, things like icing two wingers in OT for a DZ faceoff.

 

[Bevans]

How is bringing in an interim coach handcuffing the new owner?

By promoting Mann you're putting new owners in a situation where, if they want their own coach, they've now hollowed out Bellville and Ottawa coaching and fired the brother of their AGM on day 1.

Maybe they fire DJ and promote Capuano to move chairs around on the titanic, but there's no way they move Mann up.

 

[The Devilish Buffoon]

By promoting Mann you're putting new owners in a situation where, if they want their own coach, they've now hollowed out Bellville and Ottawa coaching and fired the brother of their AGM on day 1.

Maybe they fire Dorion and promote Capuano to move chairs around on the titanic, but there's no way they move Mann up.

Assuming you mean DJ here^. And yeah, this is what I imagine would happen unless they are really dissatisfied with Capuano & just want him gone.

If they decide to clean house on the coaching staff (not likely, but not completely impossible), my guess is they do something like the Habs did last year... maybe give Donovan/Phillips/Winchester/Redden a part-time assistant role and hire someone who is looking to prove they can coach at the NHL level... could be an ex-coach or unproven coach. But only on an interim basis.

 

[HSF]

By promoting Mann you're putting new owners in a situation where, if they want their own coach, they've now hollowed out Bellville and Ottawa coaching and fired the brother of their AGM on day 1.

Maybe they fire DJ and promote Capuano to move chairs around on the titanic, but there's no way they move Mann up.

they can offer him a job in belleville or fire him. I suspect new owner will clean house anyways. I would be more worried about AGM Mann

Getting rid of DJ should be the first move no doubt

 

[Big Muddy]

I don't think if they place Mann as the interim coach for the balance of the season, that it means he has to be released when the new owners (and/or GM) take over. There's nothing "automatic" about that in my mind and no need to link those 2 things together.

Got to give some credit to the new owners to be able to be logical, work these things out and draw the correct conclusions. The new owners could still decide to move him back to his former position in the AHL, or do whatever (other alternatives).

I'm not arguing for Mann necessarily as the interim coach. I just don't see him being fired by the new owners as being automatic if he is placed in an interim coach position.

 

[bert]

Fair enough
Also other teams have had injuries and did better

I think the main point for me with DJ is the defensive collapse in the D zone where sometimes nobody seem to know what to do (but maybe that's on Capuano I don't know)

Look at how Toronto has dealt with losing 4 top 4 d men which includes their 3 best. That's a team with terrific structure. Sens simply don't have it. Capuano runs the D core.

they can offer him a job in belleville or fire him. I suspect new owner will clean house anyways. I would be more worried about AGM Mann

Getting rid of DJ should be the first move no doubt

No that's Dorion. No way he should get to choose another coach.

 

[God Says No]

No that's Dorion. No way he should get to choose another coach.

He won't. He'll choose the interim coach. Once new owners come in, I believe we'll have brand new management.

 

[Cosmix]

I don't think it's the fact that we had injuries that's the issue, it's the fact that we don't have depth in the position our injuries occurred. We'd have been able to manage injuries to Batherson and DeBrincat better than Zub and Norris imo.

Our roster doesn't have a lot of good defensive players, Zub and Norris, maybe Pinto as he develops. Losing Paul and Brown took away from our forward groups compentency at helping out defensively when injuries happen, guys like Tkachuk, Batherson, Giroux, DeBrincat and Stü are always thinking offence, we don't have a lot of guys where defensive play is natural.

To me, roster construction compounds the problems caused by injuries, I think a coach who specializes in defensive systems might be better suited to adapt than DJ to our specific context.

I'm not really a fan of DJs coaching, I just think the way things have gone are close to worst case scenario for him. I personally am more critical of his unforced errors, things like icing two wingers in OT for a DZ faceoff.

Regarding Tkachuk, Batherson, Giroux, DeBrincat and Stü always thinking offence, I have seen VG back checking by DeBrincat and Stutzle. Tkachuk seems a bit slow coming back and has flown the D zone on occasion but I think that is caused by coaching.