TheNewEra
Registered User
- Jul 10, 2013
- 8,230
- 3,636
they gave him some inside access and gave him some free things
he is basically garrioch now
Proposal: Fire DJ Smith
- Thread starter KevinRedkey
- Start date
- Status
they gave him some inside access and gave him some free things
he is basically garrioch now
So true!
Hamonic, Holden, Zaitsev, Bernard-Docker, Chabot… all have made similar or worse mistakes and there is ZERO impact or accountability for them. What gives DJ?
If we do make these mistakes would much rather it be a younger D doing it and not a Vet.
Big Muddy
Registered User
- Dec 15, 2019
- 9,109
- 4,409
Hard to say. There could be some truth in that, but some teams like New Jersey & Buffalo have been quietly building and getting better and the results are just manifesting themselves in the early stages of this season.
Your comment seems a little odd given that we just played a pretty good team last night who is 1st in their division and in 2nd place in the Eastern Conference. I think some can be hyper focused on what we are doing and kind of look past what the other teams have been doing. Expectations are better routed when all the info and the big picture is considered.
Better than almost every single team when you look at the details:
we have better roster on paper than
- redwings
- canadiens
- sabres
- flyers
- islanders
we have a worse roster than
- devils
DaveMatthew
Bring in Peter
The big picture is that our "rebuild" started in the summer of 17/18. We're in the 5th season since then.
Tom Fitzgerald took over as GM in 2020 in New Jersey. As did Kevyn Adams in Buffalo.
I agree that the Devils look much better than we do. But the fact that the New Jersey Devils look much better than we do after we've been rebuilding for 5 summers is a complete and utter failure.
Expectations do not to be tempered. Dorion and DJ aren't getting this team anywhere. We need a new regime and realistically, they'll need 1-2 years to turn this thing around. We probably shouldn't expect playoffs until 24/25 or 25/26.
I honestly don’t get those defending DJ. Whether or not he has been given a poor roster, what defensemen have we developed in his several years here? Jacques Martin and Bryan Murray we able to used flawed defensemen in ways that maximized their skills and abilities.
What contributions will DJ make as coach on the path towards improving this team’s performance moving forward? Will he be able to help Sanderson, JBD, Brannstrom, Thomson and (hopefully) Kleven take the next step?
Of course the Sens also need better talent, but if the only way to improve is to get all stars at every position, your coach isn’t teaching and developing players.
Wouldn’t surprise me.
It’s wild, specifically in this game where Chabot and JBD threw pizzas up the ice in the defensive zone right to the opposition, similar to the one Branny gave up against Vancouver, that should have ended up in our net and didn’t because of pure luck. Those were far worse giveaways. Chabot still gets double shifted right after that giveaway.
It’s not only unfair and unreasonably harsh towards Brannstrom, but it’s unfair to Chabot who just shouldn’t be playing 30+ minutes. Chabot needs to be managed and coached right now to rebuild the confidence.
This isn’t prime Karlsson, and even if it were, our deployment of him harmed his career. The Sens just won’t learn.
What contributions will DJ make as coach on the path towards improving this team’s performance moving forward? Will he be able to help Sanderson, JBD, Brannstrom, Thomson and (hopefully) Kleven take the next step?
Of course the Sens also need better talent, but if the only way to improve is to get all stars at every position, your coach isn’t teaching and developing players.
Wouldn’t surprise me.
It’s wild, specifically in this game where Chabot and JBD threw pizzas up the ice in the defensive zone right to the opposition, similar to the one Branny gave up against Vancouver, that should have ended up in our net and didn’t because of pure luck. Those were far worse giveaways. Chabot still gets double shifted right after that giveaway.
It’s not only unfair and unreasonably harsh towards Brannstrom, but it’s unfair to Chabot who just shouldn’t be playing 30+ minutes. Chabot needs to be managed and coached right now to rebuild the confidence.
This isn’t prime Karlsson, and even if it were, our deployment of him harmed his career. The Sens just won’t learn.
Last edited:
Big Muddy
Registered User
- Dec 15, 2019
- 9,109
- 4,409
Some of the teams you listed I agree with. Others, I'm not so sure. Everyone is entitled to their opinion though of course.
Obviously we aren’t losing just because of this but what has Parker Kelly done to lock down a roster spot? To quote Sam Mitchell:
We’ve got a guy whose got the stat line zero-zero-zero… after 12 games.
Sit him down the fire isn’t burning as hot as it should for a guy of his ilk.
We’ve got a guy whose got the stat line zero-zero-zero… after 12 games.
Sit him down the fire isn’t burning as hot as it should for a guy of his ilk.
Last edited:
Big Muddy
Registered User
- Dec 15, 2019
- 9,109
- 4,409
OK, I was only referring to the fact that other teams have improved as well. Again, my statement was made because the topic was rosters or roster comparisons versus the stuff you are referring to.
Some of the teams you mentioned have changed GMs, coaches and management regimes more recently (and probably more frequently), but were still rebuilding for quite some time. Hischier was drafted in 2017 (just one example). I know getting into a semantic argument (when a rebuild actually started) on this topic will lead to nowhere though, so I really don't want to get into it.
DaveMatthew
Bring in Peter
I think the fanbase is frustrated because we're no longer saying "tough loss but it's Tampa a much better team". We're now saying "tough loss but it's New Jersey a much better team".
New Jersey!
Big Muddy
Registered User
- Dec 15, 2019
- 9,109
- 4,409
Oh, I agree. Frustration within the fanbase now has spiked. With the summer that we (Dorion) had, expectations were very high and optimism was through the roof.
I guess all I was trying to point out is that things are not static when it comes to our competition. They were adding talent and improving as well. It's just that we don't focus on that as much as we focus on on our own team.
Given that the Senators only play twice or maybe 3 times a week occasionally, I like to watch other teams play during the days that the Senators don't have a game. It doesn't make me an expert by any means, but at least I'm semi-aware of what's happening around the league and with other teams.
Devils are 9 - 0 when Hischier gets a point for example. He's only 2 or 3 points away from the stat point leaders. That "BMW" line they have is pretty darn good.
Micklebot
Moderator
- Apr 27, 2010
- 57,226
- 34,999
When do you think NJD rebuild really started though? If we fire Dorion, does that mean our rebuild no longer started in 17/18? Jersey has been building toward this for a while,
2015 fired DeBoer (akin to us canning Boucher imo), drafted 6OA
2016 drafted 12 OA (traded back with us)
2017 Drafted 1st OA (we went to the conference finals)
2018 drafted 17th OA
2019 drafted 1st OA
2020 drafted 7 OA
2021 drafted 4 OA
2022 drafted 2 OA
I'd say their rebuild started before ours and like us they've hit some bumps, unlike us they opted to makes some changes in leadership along the way. Right now, their top two scorers come from before we started our rebuild, one of them a first OA the other a diamond from the 6th round, their third scorer is a 1st OA from year two of our rebuild. They've been suffering longer than us.
New Jersey is 3rd league wide in pts%, their a much better team than a lot of teams this year, tampa included.
Last edited:
bert
Registered User
Yeah what happened to the edge in his game?... Where is the agitation? Drawing penalties the timely goals.
When was the last time an NHL coach survived a 7 game losing streak? I mean other than Berube who clearly has a much longer leash for obvious reasons.
Last edited:
DaveMatthew
Bring in Peter
I actually think we're trending the same way as the Devils. In 2020, the Devils realized that Ray Shero was not getting the job done after a 5-year stint, so they canned him and elevated Fitzgerald. Over the last couple of off-seasons, he's made some shrewd moves to get things on track:
• Hired an experienced coach in Lindy Ruff (Shero's guy was John Hynes)
• Focused on bolstering the defense with the additions of Hamilton, Marino, Graves and Siegenthaler
Lo and behold, they're on track for a playoff spot.
Things will probably go the same way here.
New ownership will fire Dorion and DJ. A new regime will be brought in with an experienced coach, and it'll take them 2 or so years to retool this rebuild. We'll aim for the playoffs in 24/25 or the season after.
That should be the new expectation for this fanbase.
aragorn
Do The Right Thing
- Aug 8, 2004
- 29,286
- 9,995
The NHL is not a development league, that's what the AHL is for to develop the players & get them up to NHL speed in all facets of the game. IMO they have done a great job developing JBD & he looks like a solid defencemen who already is playing very well & has basically replaced Zaitsev on the roster.
Next they need to replace Brannstrom & when Zub returns I expect that Brannstrom will be a healthy scratch & sitting in the stands. DJ has been looking for a shutdown tandem all yr & could have one if he puts Holden & Zub together. However, Holden is a 35 yr old UFA vet that IMO is in his last yr in the NHL & will need to be replaced. Heatherington could be the solution at some point this yr, but the long term solution IMO is Tyler Kleven. My guess is that Hamonic could likely get another yr as a depth player for this defence, but Thomson will need to step up soon if he ever wants to make the NHL.
Chabot - JBD
Sanderson - Hamonic
Kleven - Zub/Thomson
Next they need to replace Brannstrom & when Zub returns I expect that Brannstrom will be a healthy scratch & sitting in the stands. DJ has been looking for a shutdown tandem all yr & could have one if he puts Holden & Zub together. However, Holden is a 35 yr old UFA vet that IMO is in his last yr in the NHL & will need to be replaced. Heatherington could be the solution at some point this yr, but the long term solution IMO is Tyler Kleven. My guess is that Hamonic could likely get another yr as a depth player for this defence, but Thomson will need to step up soon if he ever wants to make the NHL.
Chabot - JBD
Sanderson - Hamonic
Kleven - Zub/Thomson
DaveMatthew
Bring in Peter
Joke?
Kleven is 2-3 years away from the NHL, at best. By the time he and Thomson are up here (if they are at all), Hamonic will be 35 and living back in Manitoba.
Micklebot
Moderator
- Apr 27, 2010
- 57,226
- 34,999
Yeah, I think new ownership will find a new GM and an experienced coach. Idk what we do about the D, I don't think we need the same overhaul as NJD did, but if we can upgrade Brannstrom and Hamonic, I'd do it. .
NJD only have Severson on the back end from the 2019-20 season. We're starting from a stronger position with Chabot, Sanderson, Zub imo. JBD looks like he could be part of the future too, I'm not sold on Thomson yet.
Still annoyed we didn't land Clarke in 2021.
“NHL isn’t a development league” is a convenient excuse we’ve allowed DJ to run out for far too long. It makes no sense. When a young player is ready to compete at this level and has learned what he needs to learn at the AHL level, he needs to play in and keep developing at the NHL level.
Detroit is developing Raymond, Seider, Berggren in the NHL while improving faster than us.
Montreal is developing Caufield, Suzuki, Slafkovsky, Guhle, Harris, Xhekaj in the NHL while playing better than us.
Buffalo is developing Krebs, Power, Peterka, Cozens, Dahlin in the NHL while playing better than us.
We’re currently developing Sanderson, Stutzle, Tkachuk, Batherson, Norris, Pinto, JBD in the NHL. But they aren’t improving as fast as we’d hope.
Even the roster you’re suggesting has Kleven and Thomson developing. It’s just talking point/excuse from a coach who can’t develop defensemen.
DaveMatthew
Bring in Peter
Hamilton was the first guy I listed.
This is what ideally the D should be next year:
Sanderson - XXX
Chabot - Zub
XXX - Bernard-Docker
We need to extend Zub and add a 20+ minute-a-night top 4 RD + another solid LD to pair with JBD.
Realistically, that means a new GM will need to flip out Debrincat, either as the asset in the trade to get that top 4 D or to open up salary space.
I'd be calling up St.Louis. DeBrincat would probably extend there, they'll need a goal scorer to pair with Thomas since Tarasenko is likely moving on, and maybe we can get one of Faulk or Parayko back in a deal. Their GM has already threatened a major shakeup.
Last edited:
aragorn
Do The Right Thing
- Aug 8, 2004
- 29,286
- 9,995
You have no idea how far along Kleven is, but my suggestion is to replace Brannstrom with Zub on the 3rd pairing for this yr. Next yr they will need to relace Holden & if Kleven isn't ready they have Heatherington in Belleville or could sign a 3rd pairing shutdown D over the summer. They could probably get another yr out of Hamonic IMO or start replacing him slowly next yr with Thomson. They have to have a look at Thomson sooner rather than later & either move on from him or get him into the lineup for longer stretches.
Some of those guys didn't need to go to the AHL because they were further along & were already NHL ready for the most part or the NHL team needed them more. You play the players you have & they have had Zaitsev, Holden, Brannstrom & Hamonic all guys who they need to upgrade on which is PD's job. IMO Zaitsev has been replaced on the roster with JBD who has been solid. Next when Zub returns he should replace Brannstrom, Holden is 35 yrs old & should likely get replaced before the end of this yr or certainly over the summer internally or externally.
They might get another yr out of Hamonic, but they should be looking to replace him as well sooner rather than later. But they can only relace these guys when they have other guys who are ready & that's their problem, they don't have a lot of NHL depth D. It's also replacing a role & they don't have big mobile 3rd pairing D that can play 5 on 5 & the PK. I expect that Zub & Holden could turn into a shutdown tandem for the remainder of the yr, it's their biggest need right now but if injuries occur they don't have the depth to withstand it for too long.
DaveMatthew
Bring in Peter
Heatherington is an AHL player. He belongs nowhere near a top 6.
Kleven is not Sanderson. He's not even JBD. He won't step in next year or the year after.
Sanderson - XXX
Chabot - Zub
XXX - JBD
They need to extend Zub, bring in a legitimate NHL top 4 RD, and add a veteran improvement over Holden/Hamonic to play with JBD.
If JBD is in the top 4 next year we're not a playoff team.
If Kleven or Heatherington are on our bottom pairing next year we're not a playoff team.
Micklebot
Moderator
- Apr 27, 2010
- 57,226
- 34,999
Noticed that after I posted and edited, my bad.
I have liked JBD with Chabot so far, I think he might fit in that role and we should explore that until the trade deadline, Zub with Sanderson is worth trying too imo. Upgrading a bottom pairing with competent guys should be much easier.
I'd like to keep DeBrincat, I think if the cap goes up like was rumoured that might be possible even with adding better D.
aragorn
Do The Right Thing
- Aug 8, 2004
- 29,286
- 9,995
Exaggerate much? Did I say Kleven was Sanderson, what are you going on about? Heatherington would be a stop gap until Kleven is ready & nobody knows where his game is at for next season, but I expect he will start in Belleville for a while. JBD is proving to be a solid defenceman & could end up staying on the top pairing with Chabot. Hamonic is doing alright & could return for another yr although if he does they should be looking to upgrade on him & they have a 1st rd pick in Thomson waiting for his shot.
When Zub returns they could put him with Holden to create a shutdown tandem which they haven't had all yr & bench Brannstrom. But Holden is 35 yrs old & his role will need to be replaced at some point & Heatherington seems like a likely transition piece until Kleven is NHL ready. Kleven is already as big as Holden, tougher than Holden, more mobile than Holden & really only needs to learn the NHL game. He's not Sanderson or JBD, I never said he was, he's a 3rd pairing shutdown defenceman who is there to prevent goals & we shouldn't expect him to be a pt producer because he's not. He will be a better version of Holden, he's a shutdown D.
See zero issues with Branny playing 3rd pairing lhd minutes medium term. Only need is upgrade to Hamonic/Holden/Zaitsev until JBD/Thomson are ready.
- Status
