Proposal: Fire DJ Smith

[Ice-Tray]

Here are your exact words:
We are so much better than we were last year, and have finally reached the middle ground where challenging for the playoffs is a realistic expectation going forward. To me that’s awesome to see.

I'd call that painting a "glowing picture" but maybe you are easily impressed.

It’s awesome to see that we’re so much better than last year. Hmmmm, Ok…

Instead of fighting for worst team in the league, last week we were in like 9th place in the conference 3 points back. I guess that IS a “glowing picture” in your world.

There are no awards in life for having the highest fan evaluated performance standards. It’s just prevents you from enjoying yourself. To me that perspective is miserable and is pointless, so I don’t do it.

You hold that line by all means, I’ll continue to enjoy the pretty pictures I guess.

 

[Ice-Tray]

3 games ago we had a 13% chance to make the playoffs

We now have a 5% chance.

If you think these 3 games really charged my opinion on what meaningful games are, not to sure what to tell you, but I assure you, I don’t consider a <15% chance at playoffs with 1/4 of the season remaining, while having played the 2nd easiest schedule in the league, meaningful games.

If all that we have to do to have “meaningful” games is not be mathematically eliminated with 15+ games remaining, well, those are embarrassingly low standards.

This is a strange perspective coming from you. I mean, I guess you have your opinion on what a meaningful game is.

But I’d be willing to bet that each game for the last few weeks as the team chased down 9th place at their peak, jumping over several teams in the process, that they felt those games were meaningful, especially when compared to the games at similar junctures over the last 3 years.

In fact, I’d take it further and posit that the last week of games where they have lost the poor fashion, have also be tremendously meaningful to the team, as they watch their playoffs hopes dwindle.

There are lots of fans in here who wrote the team off in November, and to them of course these games aren’t meaningful, they gave up long ago. That’s clearly not the case for the team though, who at the end of the day are the only group that matter when discussing whether games are meaningful or not.

Do you honestly think the GM was referring to bitter super fans online when he talked of meaningful games? Or do you think he was referring to the importance of the games to the players who were playing them.

 

[Micklebot]

That's kind of cherry picking stats though. Long cold streak? We had a long hot streak then too right? I'm taking the season level stats. Norris wasn't really discussed when we were running a hot PP for half of the season, so we have the ability to function without Norris. We added a PP sniper and a PPG Giroux along with improvements to Stutzle.

Our net PP% is 13th. You should factor how many goals we allow during our PP. It's 19.4% vs last year at 17.7%. Nothing to write home about given that we suck 5on5.

Our net PK is dynamite, I'm not arguing that.

It's not cherry picking, I gave you the full years stat. It's top ten. It's the best it's been for as long as I can remember, heck looking it up it's currently the best in franchise history. I brought up the cold stretch because people have extremely short memories around here and seem to forget that we haven't struggled all year on the pp, every team will have ups and downs, look at the big picture and the PP is pretty damn good.

Net PP just incorporates our shitty goaltending into the calculation, not sure how much that's really adding in value to judging coaching of the pp, but even at 13th, your still pretty good and still tied for first in franchise history.

 

[Ice-Tray]

When you set up unrealistic expectations that aren’t met, that’s on you.

A little self reflection could go a long way in here.

 

[Mark Stones Spleen]

It's not cherry picking, I gave you the full years stat. It's top ten. It's the best it's been for as long as I can remember, heck looking it up it's currently the best in franchise history. I brought up the cold stretch because people have extremely short memories around here and seem to forget that we haven't struggled all year on the pp, every team will have ups and downs, look at the big picture and the PP is pretty damn good.

Net PP just incorporates our shitty goaltending into the calculation, not sure how much that's really adding in value to judging coaching of the pp, but even at 13th, your still pretty good and still tied for first in franchise history.

Net PP incorporates giving up a significant number of shorthanded opportunities allowing to goals. We are in the bottom 5 for SHG against. Our team SV percentage is better than our league position, so I'm not sure why you would pin that on our goaltending.

 

[Gil Gunderson]

When you set up unrealistic expectations that aren’t met, that’s on you.

A little self reflection could go a long way in here.

Expecting to be better than a bottom 5 team at 5-on-5 hockey is unrealistic? That's pretty telling of the job Dorion is doing then.

 

[Ice-Tray]

Expecting to be better than a bottom 5 team at 5-on-5 hockey is unrealistic? That's pretty telling of the job Dorion is doing then.

Not really, it’s more an example of picking and choosing what to be outraged over.

We need better 5 on 5 scoring, but other aspects of our game (special teams) really elevated this year to keep they guys in the mix. If we had it all this season it would have been a gigantic leap in development for this team and we’d be comfortably in the playoffs.

It why fans sit and complain to their devices while other people do the actual work, it’s never as clear cut, and the picture is always much bigger than fan outrage.

 

[Micklebot]

Net PP incorporates giving up a significant number of shorthanded opportunities allowing to goals. We are in the bottom 5 for SHG against. Our team SV percentage is better than our league position, so I'm not sure why you would pin that on our goaltending.

I said it incorporates our poor goaltending, not our poor goaltending explains the entire difference. I'm just not sure how much it's adding to evaluating the coaching compared to the raw pp%, a deeper dive would be needed.

Either way, it's still the best Net pp% in franchise history, seems the wheels fell off for that particular stat on the western road trip we just took - maybe not having either of our regular goalies played into it? -, we've certainly been playing some of our worst hockey of the season on this trip, but again, it's still not bad at all.

 

[trentmccleary]

What....that just isn't true

2003-04
Hossa (HHoF)
Alfredsson (HHoF)
Chara ( HHoF)
Spezza (budding star playing on the third line)
Redden (had been getting the odd Norris votes for a few years at that point
Phillips (considered one of the top defensive Dmen in the league around that time)
Havlat (pts per game offensive winger at the tail of the dead puck era)
Fisher (Starting to get Selke votes at that stage in his career)

Stutzle, Giroux and Tkachuk are all in the top-30 in scoring.
DeBrincat and Batherson are much better support than 55 point rookie Spezza, injured Bonk and injured White.
Redden got Norris votes because he played in a defensive system that could prevent a beachball from winding up in the back of the net. Was Redden better than Chabot, Chychrun or Sanderson or appreciably so?
Chara was considered a solid, all round defenseman and dark horse Norris contender like Redden was at that point in his career. Chara and Redden were getting the same amount of SH TOI from 2002-2004.
Phillips was considered a bust until around 2000-2001, then he seemed to be a strong playoff performer. Then he was known as a solid top-4 d-man, as Chara's partner. He didn't become known as one of the top defensive d-men in the league until his pairing with Volchenkov stabilized around Christmas 2006.
Fisher was injured for all of 2004 and had received two votes for the Selke in his entire career.

And that was a 102 point team that you failed to prove was more talented than this one, because it could play defense.

 

[SAK11]

I can't wait for a new head coach. Hoping for an actual NHL head coach, seems like we haven't hired one since Murray (Boucher had a little NHL experience but the true NHL coach to hire at that time would've been Boudreau).

Teams so often benefit from a leadership change at the coaching position. Edmonton was floundering last season until the coaching change helped them get to the Conference Finals. Twice Pittsburgh has won Cups during a season in which they fired their coach. Toronto bringing in Keefe elevated their play. Even Vancouver has looked a lot better under Tocchet so far.

Boston is a great example. Twice they have fired coaches who were highly respected (Julien and Cassidy). Both times the team got better after the new coach came in.

Even in Ottawa, we found initial success with Clouston, MacLean, Cameron and Boucher.

I hope they land a coach with a longer shelf life than those guys, but I just think a new voice will be enough to at least get more success for the short term.

I don't care that the players like Smith. Patrick Kane once cried over Denis Savard being fired but it ended up being the right move.

Maybe Berube will be fired by the Blues.

 

[Micklebot]

Stutzle, Giroux and Tkachuk are all in the top-30 in scoring.
DeBrincat and Batherson are much better support than 55 point rookie Spezza, injured Bonk and injured White.
Redden got Norris votes because he played in a defensive system that could prevent a beachball from winding up in the back of the net. Was Redden better than Chabot, Chychrun or Sanderson or appreciably so?
Chara was considered a solid, all round defenseman and dark horse Norris contender like Redden was at that point in his career. Chara and Redden were getting the same amount of SH TOI from 2002-2004.
Phillips was considered a bust until around 2000-2001, then he seemed to be a strong playoff performer. Then he was known as a solid top-4 d-man, as Chara's partner. He didn't become known as one of the top defensive d-men in the league until his pairing with Volchenkov stabilized around Christmas 2006.
Fisher was injured for all of 2004 and had received two votes for the Selke in his entire career.

And that was a 102 point team that you failed to prove was more talented than this one, because it could play defense.

I think you're selling the 2004 team short

Hossa was 5th, Alfredsson was 7th Havlat 22nd, in scoring, all well ahead of Tkachuk (27th) and Giroux (31st). Stü (20th) was ahead of Havlat though.

Spezza''s 55 pts was 47th in the league, well ahead of DeBrincat (63rd) or Batherson (80th)

What Phillips was considered prior to 2001 is irrelevant when comparing talent on the 2004 team vs today's. Phillips was considered a top defensive Dman by that point, he played on team Canada during the lockout immediately following that season

Redden was 13 the in scoring by a D, Chara was 18th, Chabot is 26th and Chychrun 36th.

 

[BondraTime]

I think you're selling the 2004 team short

Hossa was 5th, Alfredsson was 7th Havlat 22nd, in scoring, all well ahead of Tkachuk (27th) and Giroux (31st). Stü (20th) was ahead of Havlat though.

Spezza''s 55 pts was 47th in the league, well ahead of DeBrincat (63rd) or Batherson (80th)

What Phillips was considered prior to 2001 is irrelevant when comparing talent on the 2004 team vs today's. Phillips was considered a top defensive Dman by that point, he played on team Canada during the lockout immediately following that season

Redden was 13 the in scoring by a D, Chara was 18th, Chabot is 26th and Chychrun 36th.

All we’re playing ridiculously good defense.

This team isn’t remotely comparable to those teams.

One was a consistent cup threat, this one isn’t even a wildcard threat. And coaching isn’t the difference between those.

 

[DaveMatthew]

All we’re playing ridiculously good defense.

This team isn’t remotely comparable to those teams.

One was a consistent cup threat, this one isn’t even a wildcard threat. And coaching isn’t the difference between those.

It's not remotely comparable from a performance perspective, no doubt. But from a pure talent perspective?

I think you can certainly compare Stützle, Tkachuk, Chabot, Debrincat and Chychrun to Hossa, Alfredsson, Redden, Havlat and Phillips on talent.

You can't discount coaching. Jacques Martin was without a doubt head and shoulders a better coach than DJ Smith. And he built a hell of a program that those players bought into. A system that was refined over multiple years. DJ Smith hasn't come close. And he probably never will. We're out there playing pond hockey hoping for good vibes in year 5 of his "program".

Hell, look at the roster of 98/99 team that finished with 103 points. It's not better than what we have right now from a talent pov, but it's performance was at a completely different level.

 

[Micklebot]

All we’re playing ridiculously good defense.

This team isn’t remotely comparable to those teams.

One was a consistent cup threat, this one isn’t even a wildcard threat. And coaching isn’t the difference between those.

Agreed,

It's not remotely comparable from a performance perspective, no doubt. But from a pure talent perspective?

I think you can certainly compare Stützle, Tkachuk, Chabot, Debrincat and Chychrun to Hossa, Alfredsson, Redden, Havlat and Phillips on talent.

You can't discount coaching. Jacques Martin was without a doubt head and shoulders a better coach than DJ Smith. And he built a hell of a program that those players bought into. A system that was refined over multiple years. DJ Smith hasn't come close. And he probably never will. We're out there playing pond hockey hoping for good vibes in year 5 of his "program".

Hell, look at the roster of 98/99 team that finished with 103 points. It's not better than what we have right now from a talent pov, but it's performance was at a completely different level.

Seems like rose coloured glasses when you say that we match the talent of three HHOF players along with Spezza, Havlat Redden ect. Not sure why you omitted Chara btw.

 

[DueDiligence]

When you set up unrealistic expectations that aren’t met, that’s on you.

A little self reflection could go a long way in here.

When you accept low expectations, especially in sports, you will never win.

 

[Crosside]

Don't think he's interested in coaching, I think he had a heart attack or something

He was on tv around Christmas. He said he would like to come back if the conditions are good. Want to coach for a team that the owner desires him and want green light for player that he wants to play. He have give coach advice to the Formenton team in Swiss in January

 

[Micklebot]

He was on tv around Christmas. He said he would like to come back if the conditions are good. Want to coach for a team that the owner desires him and want green light for player that he wants to play. He have give coach advice to the Formenton team in Swiss in January

Well if he's healthy and willing, he'd be a good choice.

I've always seen him as a guy that gets more than the sum of the parts,

 

[Crosside]

I'd like to see Claude Julien behind the bench next year.

Me too. Montgomery said Boston success is in part because the team use the system Julien have implanted. Same for Cassidy in Vegas, he said his system is inspired by Julien system

 

[LevelingSolo]

I'd like to see Claude Julien behind the bench next year

Likewise

 

[HSF]

whats most concerning is that these games haven't been particularly close. Need new direction and leadership behind the bench and in management

 

[coladin]

A coach with alot of experience that has gone to a SCF and been coaching in the league for close to 25 years. I think its time for a new coach here. DJ has done a great job building a terrific culture. Players that play for one another, work hard and care. But there is quite clearly a lack of accountability and an inability to implement a system that can win on the road. The sens are great at home because they are good when they play with alot of emotion. Something that is just not sustainable for 82 games. I think with the right staff DJ can get there when he reflects on his time here and learns from his experience.

However a veteran coach is what is needed at this point that can teach a team how to play more responsibly and overall better team defense.

A coach whose team finished well behind Ottawa last year.

My point was hinting at the biggest change to that team. Some may say personnel, but that club started their rebuild two years before Ottawa. Who is to say that next year Ottawa cannot be Jersey? And their key players have been healthy, which helps.

 

[LevelingSolo]

A coach whose team finished well behind Ottawa last year.

My point was hinting at the biggest change to that team. Some may say personnel, but that club started their rebuild two years before Ottawa. Who is to say that next year Ottawa cannot be Jersey? And their key players have been healthy, which helps.

Not with this head coach, Ruff had a track record of success everywhere prior to the Devils

 

[coladin]

Me too. Montgomery said Boston success is in part because the team use the system Julien have implanted. Same for Cassidy in Vegas, he said his system is inspired by Julien system

And the thing is, when Claude Julien walks into that room, they will be like pupils listening to the professor. They know he has won a Stanley Cup. Coached hundreds of games in an original six city. A thousand, even?

He would be my choice, and I think the kids on this team are at the perfect age for a legendary coach. Because no matter how you cut it, when DJ says stop cheating…they aren’t listening.

 

[bert]

A coach whose team finished well behind Ottawa last year.

My point was hinting at the biggest change to that team. Some may say personnel, but that club started their rebuild two years before Ottawa. Who is to say that next year Ottawa cannot be Jersey? And their key players have been healthy, which helps.

I clearly knew what you meant. Ruff is a veteran coach that is capable of adapting because he has experience. The sens dont play with enough structure to consistently win on the road and certain players arent being held accountable and are not performing to the best of their abilities. Jerseys advanced metrics were actually very good last year. They had a league worst save percentage. They added some important pieces. But this is only Ruffs third year with the team. This is DJ's fourth sometimes the message wears thin.

 

[coladin]

Not with this head coach, Ruff had a track record of success everywhere prior to the Devils

Define success. He made the playoffs half the time. Been fired plenty. A Stanley Cup Final in his second coaching year.

Lindy has coached those young players three years. Did his coaching style/tactic/structure/philosophy change?

Or did the young group simply mature with age and experience