Proposal: Fire DJ Smith

Should the Sens fire DJ Smith?


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PoutineSp00nZ

Electricity is really just organized lightning.
Jul 21, 2009
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38 games of garbage and a pick in the top 7 is definitely better than 38 games of .550 hockey and a pick in the 10-15 range.

If this was done in the first 25 games of the year, when it should have been done, I’d agree. But at this point with 44 games played, and so far out of it with so many ahead, just keep the status quo, especially with new ownership.
I disagree. I'd much rather they have a solid record the rest of the way, win more games than they lose. Even if it means they miss out. Learning to win. What it takes.

If this group can't push themselves to be better the rest of the way this year, I don't think that is a good sign for the group as a whole or for the moral of the players.
 
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bicboi64

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Aug 13, 2020
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I disagree. I'd much rather they have a solid record the rest of the way, win more games than they lose. Even if it means they miss out. Learning to win. What it takes.

If this group can't push themselves to be better the rest of the way this year, I don't think that is a good sign for the group as a whole or for the moral of the players.
They should have learned how to win last year when they played very good in the last third of the season. This team has had plenty of March and April games where they had wins, but it didn't build a winning culture at all
 

Tuna99

Registered User
Sep 26, 2009
15,995
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If Dorion had the foresight to fire DJ in November, he might actually have a chance of retaining his job in 6 months.


But that's a ship he apparently was ok going down with.

Loyal to failure, better to be loyal to a bad decision you’ve made then fire someone and get better is the mind set
 
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BondraTime

Registered User
Nov 20, 2005
29,732
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I disagree. I'd much rather they have a solid record the rest of the way, win more games than they lose. Even if it means they miss out. Learning to win. What it takes.

If this group can't push themselves to be better the rest of the way this year, I don't think that is a good sign for the group as a whole or for the moral of the players.
That's more than fair, I'm sure many/most fans would like to see that. I don't think it's an accurate representation of things though.

2021-2022 - 33-42-7 record, 0.445 point %. Went 11-7-3 in their final 20 games, a 0.625 point %. This includes finishing the season 7-3.

2020-2021 - 23-28-5 record, 0.455 point %. Went 11-8-1 in their final 20 games, a 0.575 point %. This includes finishing the season 11-4-1.

The group has done that both the past seasons. It means absolutely nothing, other than dropping the draft choice.

Meanwhile, the Devils went 4-16 over their last 20 games this past season, and are a top 5 team in the league atm. Even if they went 15-5, they would have gone into this season the exact same way. It's their play to start the season that matters, not how many loser points they picked up in a lost season.

Whether they pick up 45 points in the next 38 games, or 25 points in the next 38 games, the next season will be the exact same starting point.
 

Micklebot

Moderator
Apr 27, 2010
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That's more than fair, I'm sure many/most fans would like to see that. I don't think it's an accurate representation of things though.

2021-2022 - 33-42-7 record, 0.445 point %. Went 11-7-3 in their final 20 games, a 0.625 point %. This includes finishing the season 7-3.

2020-2021 - 23-28-5 record, 0.455 point %. Went 11-8-1 in their final 20 games, a 0.575 point %. This includes finishing the season 11-4-1.

The group has done that both the past seasons. It means absolutely nothing, other than dropping the draft choice.

Meanwhile, the Devils went 4-16 over their last 20 games this past season, and are a top 5 team in the league atm. Even if they went 15-5, they would have gone into this season the exact same way. It's their play to start the season that matters, not how many loser points they picked up in a lost season.

Whether they pick up 45 points in the next 38 games, or 25 points in the next 38 games, the next season will be the exact same starting point.
Given that we will inevitably have a new coach next year, I see very little value to a strong finish aside from mercy to those of us still going to and watching games...

The good news is aside from DeBrincat, our key players are all signed with term. We're going to need to sign Pinto but he doesn't have any leverage, and Brannstrom who imo is trade fodder.

My biggest concern with how bad this season has gone is what the impact will be on attracting players to come, we're screwed if players all view us similar to the Oilers and Sabres back in the day. Had we just had a 95 pts season where we showed progress, I can see UFA wanting to be a part of a team on the rise, but the way this season has gone I don't expect any player to take us off their NTC lists, even with new coaching we'll need to show progress first.
 

coladin

Registered User
Sep 18, 2009
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I think that Greig or Sokolov would provide that “ worker” attitude, but you are right, there isn’t any jam in this lineup and a guy like Tyler Boucher is years away. But he would be good for what this team needs
Well, looks like one of these workers is on the way, and happy to see Greig on his way up.
 
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Beech

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Nov 25, 2020
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Given that we will inevitably have a new coach next year, I see very little value to a strong finish aside from mercy to those of us still going to and watching games...

The good news is aside from DeBrincat, our key players are all signed with term. We're going to need to sign Pinto but he doesn't have any leverage, and Brannstrom who imo is trade fodder.

My biggest concern with how bad this season has gone is what the impact will be on attracting players to come, we're screwed if players all view us similar to the Oilers and Sabres back in the day. Had we just had a 95 pts season where we showed progress, I can see UFA wanting to be a part of a team on the rise, but the way this season has gone I don't expect any player to take us off their NTC lists, even with new coaching we'll need to show progress first.
How accurate is that really Mick??

A free agent is there for
1) Money.. He generally wants a richer contract than his old team is offering. We have debated it on here at length. Connor Brown, Nick Paul and others. You can go through the whole league and see the same
2) Getting out of town...Read; Johnny Gaudreau
3) Getting out of town and to a "cozy/hot" place...read; Mathew Tkachuk, Pannarin and another 2-3 hundred players the last 30 years.

and the importance is in that order. This fable that a player is looking for a quality young team to grow with and win a cup...NO.. a Fable.

a team wining or not winning has zero meaning. You cannot name a single case of a players, of reasonable age and skill, who opted for a team that was on the way up, but offered a lesser contract. Or a team ascending, but is an uncomfortable living environment over his other options that has won out.

Johnny Hockey accepted a lesser contract to get out of Calgary. Calgary had to blow its brains out on Huberdeau. And Brady's brother did them so hard and deep, they are pregnant. Kadri is there because had he stayed unsigned another little while, he would have happily paid them to sign!!!

The SENS gave Giroux 7, 7 and 5.5. For a 34-37 year old. 19.5 million
they had him at 3 years and 13 million back in 2021. When he was a year younger!!! The Sens probably paid 6-7 million more. f*** yea he signed here. He was effectively given another year's worth of salary. It had nothing to do with "a growing team", nor the bullshit about coming home.
 
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Cosmix

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Remember Pierre McGuire !!he has been saying that the last 20 years on Ottawa radio..He would call it fools gold.

it fills buildings, it ensure sales for next year and that is pretty much it.
BUT, it does not FILL BUILDINGS! I suppose it does increase tickets sales a bit; however, icing a better roster instead of AHL level and near-retirement vet players would be much better and have a higher probability of making the playoffs each year.

That 4th line is horrendous
I am not certain that Sokolov will become an NHL level player due to his slowness.
 
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Sens of Anarchy

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Jul 9, 2013
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Boudreau is 68, but has pointedly said that he would like to keep coaching. Funny enough, I think the way he was treated in Vancouver will see him get another chance somewhere as an interim, either this year or next.

DJ isn't going anywhere for now. For better or for worse, everything is on hold during the sale. He will be done, along with Dorion, on the day after the regular season concludes, but unfortunately we have another ten weeks or so of misery to endure before then...


DJ would be owed one year. Dorion has two years after this one. Both of them, though, would be amongst the lowest paid in the league, so for a new owner paying them out is a rounding error...
left to the new owners covers that no?
 

Pierre from Orleans

Registered User
May 9, 2007
27,604
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BUT, it does not FILL BUILDINGS! I suppose it does increase tickets sales a bit; however, icing a better roster instead of AHL level and near-retirement vet players would be much better and have a higher probability of making the playoffs each year.


I am not certain that Sokolov will become an NHL level player due to his slowness.
I agree. I'm not as high on Sokolov as others seem to be.
 

Beech

Registered User
Nov 25, 2020
3,329
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BUT, it does not FILL BUILDINGS! I suppose it does increase tickets sales a bit; however, icing a better roster instead of AHL level and near-retirement vet players would be much better and have a higher probability of making the playoffs each year.
it does , in the immediate. By Late March, early April. We are out of winter, but the weather is not yet warm enough for summer activities. The Credit card debts from Christmas have been partially paid, so we have a few dollars to spend. A nice 11-5-4 run, with 11 of those games at the CTC, means an extra few thousand. Them media kicks in, spins everything and a few more season tickets get sold for next year. and a few Christmas stocking stuffers, etc.

it is of coarse fake, as the schedule is often soft the last 20 games (for weaker teams) and being out of it, they play more motivated and their opponents less.

an 11-5-4 end of season record, keeps the owner happy. The GM and coach employed, the media buzzing. It keeps the off season upbeat. And it pays the bills.

Yes, the next season is shit, but we have already paid our money upfront. And we worry about next season, next season and the cycle repeats itself.. And everyone is happy, happy, happy!!! Those pesky Sens, The kids are alright and so on and so on.
 

Beech

Registered User
Nov 25, 2020
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Have to see how DeBrincat fits going forward... In a complete vacuum I like the trade. But its an an expense of shrinking ability to improve elsewhere.
A few posts ago, I cannot remember on which thread. I wrote a summary on D men drafted in the top 10, the years 2015-2020.

f*** and I mean f***, what the Sens may have given up.

In summary:
6 years, 16 D men chosen in top 10
11-12 are stars
2 Calder's, 1 Norris, 1 upcoming Norris in Dahlin
3 cup winners, 4 cups in total

all bellow 26..they still have 10 - 15 years. By the time the book is closed on this batch alone, you could be seeing a treasure trove of awards.

If the Sens gave up another in a line of this success. We will hate ourselves something awful.
 

otown

Registered User
Sep 4, 2009
1,270
525
Yes there’s the well documented playoff failures, but we haven’t even come close to sniffing the post-season with this core so I can’t see why that matters.

He’s a phenomenal regular season coach. His team’s defensive numbers are always superb even though their D core is nothing special. Earlier in the season their entire top 4 was injured and they managed to get by fine for a month with 3 pairs of scrubs.

He understands the modern game better than most and has proven capable of motivating his players.

If you’re looking for tangible results, his winning% at every level he’s coached is ridiculous. I believe the playoff chokes are more on that players than him, their core players seem to be very weak mentally (especially Marner).
Good coaches win when it counts. Simple as that!
 

slamigo

Skate or Die!
Dec 25, 2007
6,460
3,859
Ottawa
I fear that Sokolov will be a really, really good player for another NHL team. Any time he's been called up he looks tentative and unsure. Disagree with me but I feel a lot of that is coaching and lack of structure.

I can see us trading him for peanuts and then like most other players we cast off, suddenly they emerge as good NHLers. Sigh.
 

PoutineSp00nZ

Electricity is really just organized lightning.
Jul 21, 2009
20,369
6,042
Ottawa
That's more than fair, I'm sure many/most fans would like to see that. I don't think it's an accurate representation of things though.

2021-2022 - 33-42-7 record, 0.445 point %. Went 11-7-3 in their final 20 games, a 0.625 point %. This includes finishing the season 7-3.

2020-2021 - 23-28-5 record, 0.455 point %. Went 11-8-1 in their final 20 games, a 0.575 point %. This includes finishing the season 11-4-1.

The group has done that both the past seasons. It means absolutely nothing, other than dropping the draft choice.

Meanwhile, the Devils went 4-16 over their last 20 games this past season, and are a top 5 team in the league atm. Even if they went 15-5, they would have gone into this season the exact same way. It's their play to start the season that matters, not how many loser points they picked up in a lost season.

Whether they pick up 45 points in the next 38 games, or 25 points in the next 38 games, the next season will be the exact same starting point.

I guess for me I just view the mental aspect of it all being more important. My thinking is if the guys can't win again . .. especially after serious upgrades to the top 6, they might start to question themselves or the franchise in general. Maybe they doubt themselves, confidence gets broken, maybe they decide they want out.

I've never played professional sports, and haven't played competitive hockey since I was a kid. So I don't really know. I just think that if I keep getting beaten down in a job, or a hobby in my own life, I lose to the drive to keep going with it and want a change.

I might be wrong when it comes to them, you definitely provided some excellent examples of losing turning into winning. I just wonder if the guys who have been here longer, the chabots, the tkachuks, the bathersons get shit in their head from perpetual losing that they'll have a hard time overcoming.

Just my two cents! I've been wrong once or twice before ;)
 

swiftwin

★SUMMER.OF.STEVE★
Jul 26, 2005
24,249
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I fear that Sokolov will be a really, really good player for another NHL team. Any time he's been called up he looks tentative and unsure. Disagree with me but I feel a lot of that is coaching and lack of structure.

I can see us trading him for peanuts and then like most other players we cast off, suddenly they emerge as good NHLers. Sigh.
Do you believe Mann lacks structure in the AHL too?
 

PoutineSp00nZ

Electricity is really just organized lightning.
Jul 21, 2009
20,369
6,042
Ottawa
How accurate is that really Mick??

A free agent is there for
1) Money.. He generally wants a richer contract than his old team is offering. We have debated it on here at length. Connor Brown, Nick Paul and others. You can go through the whole league and see the same
2) Getting out of town...Read; Johnny Gaudreau
3) Getting out of town and to a "cozy/hot" place...read; Mathew Tkachuk, Pannarin and another 2-3 hundred players the last 30 years.

and the importance is in that order. This fable that a player is looking for a quality young team to grow with and win a cup...NO.. a Fable.

a team wining or not winning has zero meaning. You cannot name a single case of a players, of reasonable age and skill, who opted for a team that was on the way up, but offered a lesser contract. Or a team ascending, but is an uncomfortable living environment over his other options that has won out.

Johnny Hockey accepted a lesser contract to get out of Calgary. Calgary had to blow its brains out on Huberdeau. And Brady's brother did them so hard and deep, they are pregnant. Kadri is there because had he stayed unsigned another little while, he would have happily paid them to sign!!!

The SENS gave Giroux 7, 7 and 5.5. For a 34-37 year old. 19.5 million
they had him at 3 years and 13 million back in 2021. When he was a year younger!!! The Sens probably paid 6-7 million more. f*** yea he signed here. He was effectively given another year's worth of salary. It had nothing to do with "a growing team", nor the bullshit about coming home.

Given contracts recently, and his continued high level of play, I'm pretty sure that Giroux could have had the same contract in a bunch of other cities. He still chose Ottawa.

Oh I know lol but Greig is not ready yet.. no point to call him up to play 4th line minutes. Also, Gambrell is not a better option.. the whole 4th line is garbage and there is no better options..

Kastelic has promise. Kelly is what he is, same with Watson. One of those guys on the line is fine, preferably Kastelic. They definitely need a guy like Motte down there with them, some skill and speed.

Watson is probably done after this year. Guy busts his ass out there, but his limitations are obvious and set in Stone. I think Kelly has a bit more potential.
 

Micklebot

Moderator
Apr 27, 2010
57,127
34,874
Given contracts recently, and his continued high level of play, I'm pretty sure that Giroux could have had the same contract in a bunch of other cities. He still chose Ottawa.
Similarly, his cited example of Gaudreau did have numerous similar offers and specifically said he chose Clb for family reasons and liking the young core.

The point though wasn't that being an up and comer will attract UFA, rather that being a dumpster fire will deter UFA. You need to show promise and make a competitive offer, it's not one or the other.
 

Micklebot

Moderator
Apr 27, 2010
57,127
34,874
How accurate is that really Mick??

A free agent is there for
1) Money.. He generally wants a richer contract than his old team is offering. We have debated it on here at length. Connor Brown, Nick Paul and others. You can go through the whole league and see the same
2) Getting out of town...Read; Johnny Gaudreau
3) Getting out of town and to a "cozy/hot" place...read; Mathew Tkachuk, Pannarin and another 2-3 hundred players the last 30 years.

and the importance is in that order. This fable that a player is looking for a quality young team to grow with and win a cup...NO.. a Fable.

a team wining or not winning has zero meaning. You cannot name a single case of a players, of reasonable age and skill, who opted for a team that was on the way up, but offered a lesser contract. Or a team ascending, but is an uncomfortable living environment over his other options that has won out.

Johnny Hockey accepted a lesser contract to get out of Calgary. Calgary had to blow its brains out on Huberdeau. And Brady's brother did them so hard and deep, they are pregnant. Kadri is there because had he stayed unsigned another little while, he would have happily paid them to sign!!!

The SENS gave Giroux 7, 7 and 5.5. For a 34-37 year old. 19.5 million
they had him at 3 years and 13 million back in 2021. When he was a year younger!!! The Sens probably paid 6-7 million more. f*** yea he signed here. He was effectively given another year's worth of salary. It had nothing to do with "a growing team", nor the bullshit about coming home.
Your whole post seems based on assumptions pulled out of thin air.

Players will get competitive offers from multiple teams, financial aspects will rule out some teams but when you have multiple comparable offers you need to make choices on other factors. NHL players absolutely want to win, so being a good team or at least having promise is going to be a factor, just like personal life weighs in, some players and their wives want warm weather, others want to be closer to family.
 
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Beech

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Nov 25, 2020
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Your whole post seems based on assumptions pulled out of thin air.

Players will get competitive offers from multiple teams, financial aspects will rule out some teams but when you have multiple comparable offers you need to make choices on other factors. NHL players absolutely want to win, so being a good team or at least having promise is going to be a factor, just like personal life weighs in, some players and their wives want warm weather, others want to be closer to family.
Johnny Hockey is from Phili... Columbus is close, not that close. If Mrs. Gaudreau wants to see her family, or his family want to see him. It is on an airplane.

okay a 40 minute, versus a 4 hour. I get you. Canada/USA, I get you. He left ~ 16 million on the table...for a 4 hour flight, viruses 40 minute flight. So Mom and Dad visit him 2-3 times per hockey season. They stay 2-3 days. 16 million bucks.

He wanted out. He took the best offer... Calgary 111 points in 2021/2022. Columbus 81.

Where you following the NHL? What analyst had them improving?
they called for a few points less.

Old Johnnie boy wanted out. At any cost..16 million and dead last..He wanted out. He was peeved with something. Maybe one day it will come out. Given Brady's brother and his exodus, I am guessing serious issues. Then Huberdeau and Kadri!!!! Wahh, what is happening in Calagry.

Claude G pocketed a cool 5-6 million extra from the Sens.. The prodigal son returns..yea for 5-6 mill extra.

No relations between wining and free agency... Money, desire to leave, good climate/environment/hot (as in hip)town/taxes.

Marian Hossa got lucky. he caught the upstart Chicago Blackhawks at a time when their young starts where making no money. So he signed a lucrative deal and was on an ascending team. That today, has disappeared. Bridges are gone. Young stars get paid instantly. So little money.. Now you chase the spots where there is still cash...Winning team, losing team, who care..Money, taxes/weather/revenge on your old team

16 f***ing million. Old Johnnie boy needs his head examined. And Claude needs to thank, Levesque, Lessage and G. Vignault..He had more brains than Johnnie boy..5-6 million more. I love Claude. We need to make T-Shirts.
 
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