Finland's status and reputation in the hockey world (merged)

[Ace Card Bedard]

I think a healthy Finland could have beat Sweden and won gold over Canada this year with Rask in net.

He's more than capable of "stealing" one game against anybody, especially if he has Finland's best in front of him.

And let's be honest, Finland would trade all of those bronze medals for one gold.

 

[Rekin]

Yeah, I'm sure the Finns would love to be in the position of the Czechs right now, after all they did win it back in 1998. One could spend all these other years cheering the Finnish version of Gabriela Soukalova, having already achieved everything in hockey anyway.

 

[Ace Card Bedard]

Yeah, I'm sure the Finns would love to be in the position of the Czechs right now, after all they did win it back in 1998. One could spend all these other years cheering the Finnish version of Gabriela Soukalova, having already achieved everything in hockey anyway.

Just wait 'til they win one (it will happen sooner or later.)
I think you'll then agree with what I wrote.

 

[RorschachWJK]

maybe you didn't read what it was in response to. it was in response to the guy that said he wouldn't trade the 3 bronzes for the gold in torino. I find that amazing finnish fans would value those bronzes more then having had the opportunity to win an Olympic gold

Feel free to be amazed. Hockey is entertainment, nothing more and nothing less.

 

[hitmen19]

Wow. Much hate. Why so angry about someone wanting the bronze? What's so bad about it? Not happy with 5-0? Go and get a bronze yourself if it is not worth pounding your chest.

why don't we get bronze? no couldn't care less. its gold or nothing for Canada, bronze is for people that can't win gold. So, you ask for our preceptions, then say we hate because we tell you how we feel. I feel usa is better then finland. Don't start a thread asking how we feel if you don't want to know. All I know is, I would rather play finland rather then usa in the gold medal game. I think usa is overall a more talented roster. just because finland beat them doesn't change that

 

[Rekin]

Just wait 'til they win one (it will happen sooner or later.)
I think you'll then agree with what I wrote.

The 1995 IIHF Worlds win is pretty mythical there, I doubt they've really missed anything by winning too many wrong medals in the Olympics. It's just about a different heritage, Finland isn't Canada.

 

[RorschachWJK]

I always cheer for finland, after Canada. I almost think this thread is exactly why finland doesn't get more credit. Finland is happy to win the bronze, but until finland starts having a gold or nothing mentality, like the Canadians, americans, swedes or Russians, they just won't get that respect. When there are really 5 teams that could have won this tournament, getting the bronze is so meh. Wow, you came in 3rd out of the 5 teams that were going to compete for gold.

And its always like were waiting for finland to have that defining win. Whether it would have been 04 world cup final, or 06 torino, or even beating swedes in the semi finals in sochi. You need that on your resume. you just do. When the top countries in the hockey world are limited to 5 or 6 that could legitimately win a title at an event, you need to win one. The world junior title was a good start

Like someone else earlier here, you are talking about Finnish fans writing on here. However, the players have only gold in mind and have had for the last 20 years. But when they put that national jersey on, the pride is incredible...off the charts and they will not settle for 4th when bronze can be had, despite the bitter disappointment of a semifinal loss.

Other countries teams should really watch and learn. If you're on the national team, play every game as if it were your last, never give up, never ****ing ever back down! It's the other countries that are mentally weak, if they can't do that and that includes your Canada. That's all I gotta say about this.

 

[TheFeistyFinn]

why don't we get bronze? no couldn't care less. its gold or nothing for Canada, bronze is for people that can't win gold. So, you ask for our preceptions, then say we hate because we tell you how we feel. I feel usa is better then finland. Don't start a thread asking how we feel if you don't want to know. All I know is, I would rather play finland rather then usa in the gold medal game. I think usa is overall a more talented roster. just because finland beat them doesn't change that

that's the difference between North-American & Finnish players it seems. it's cultural difference. you are taught early on to go for big paycheck rather than playing with passion. our players care about fans. like someone said, it's about pride for us. if we fail to win gold, they refuse to go home empty handed. they play for eachother and for the fans who deserve something to cheer for...if North-American players rather finish 4th than 3rd, that's loser mentality for me, point is that never give up. play with heart till' the tournament is over.

what USA did in bronze match is a disgrace for the fans. they just don't care and if any of the Finnish players would do that, i'd never want to see them in Finnish jersey again cause when you put that Lion jersey on, you represent the country, you got selected amongst the many. if you can't give your best till' the end of the tournament, you don't deserve the jersey.
olympic medal is olympic medal. it's played only every 4 years and not everyone has one. if players can't appreciate this fact, they don't care about hockey, only money money money money.

and yes i know, everything that i said about Finland goes for every other EU country aswell. but this topic seems to be about us only so that's why

 

[Lepardi]

Other countries teams should really watch and learn. If you're on the national team, play every game as if it were your last, never give up, never ****ing ever back down! It's the other countries that are mentally weak, if they can't do that and that includes your Canada. That's all I gotta say about this.

Finland has been to the semi-finals in the World Championships, Olympics or World Cup 20 times. Their record is as follows:

Finals: 2-8
Bronze medal games: 7-3

That stat speaks volumes of the Finnish mental strength and winner's mentality.

 

[TheFeistyFinn]

Finland has been to the semi-finals in the World Championships, Olympics or World Cup 20 times. Their record is as follows:

Finals: 2-8
Bronze medal games: 7-3

That stat speaks volumes of the Finnish mental strength and winner's mentality.

honestly, not sure if you are bashing us on that low gold amount or praising the ability to re-group after devastating semi-final loss by winning bronze. the low amount of golds rather speak for lack of talent/depth than attitude.

 

[hitmen19]

that's the difference between North-American & Finnish players it seems. it's cultural difference. you are taught early on to go for big paycheck rather than playing with passion. our players care about fans. like someone said, it's about pride for us. if we fail to win gold, they refuse to go home empty handed. they play for eachother and for the fans who deserve something to cheer for...if North-American players rather finish 4th than 3rd, that's loser mentality for me, point is that never give up. play with heart till' the tournament is over.

what USA did in bronze match is a disgrace for the fans. they just don't care and if any of the Finnish players would do that, i'd never want to see them in Finnish jersey again cause when you put that Lion jersey on, you represent the country, you got selected amongst the many. if you can't give your best till' the end of the tournament, you don't deserve the jersey.
olympic medal is olympic medal. it's played only every 4 years and not everyone has one. if players can't appreciate this fact, they don't care about hockey, only money money money money.

and yes i know, everything that i said about Finland goes for every other EU country aswell. but this topic seems to be about us only so that's why

again, for umpteen time, there is no where do I say don't play hard for the bronze, or the usa shouldn't be ridiculed for not playing hard in the bronze medal game.

the point is that finland thinks all those bronzes mean something and pound their chests being happy being third best in a really 5 team tournament.

the finns should be happy with their bronze, but realize until they win golds and not bronzes, the respect won't be there. They need to win more juniors golds, more mens world championships golds, and a best on best eventually. They have one mens world championships in last 15 years, and one junior gold in the last 15 years, and no best on best ever.

sorry, and their individual talent doesn't measure up to other teams eventhough they play a good team game. Although with barkov and granlund their moving in the right direction.

the usa game was still a lot more of a challenge then finland was, and has better talent overall, and I would rather play finland rather then the usa if I had a choice.

 

[Hubie]

Finland has been to the semi-finals in the World Championships, Olympics or World Cup 20 times. Their record is as follows:

Finals: 2-8
Bronze medal games: 7-3

That stat speaks volumes of the Finnish mental strength and winner's mentality.

Finland is usually a team that overachieves to get to the top 4. The team they are facing in the bronze medal game on the other hand is likely a team that is routinely playing for gold and has already failed in their goals for the tournament. The bronze game results reflect the fact that winning the bronze means more to a team who's 5th to 8th on paper than to a team that's among the top 4 on paper but has not made it to the final. The finals results reflect the fact that it's hard for an underdog to pull several upsets in a row.

 

[Arz1]

again, for umpteen time, there is no where do I say don't play hard for the bronze, or the usa shouldn't be ridiculed for not playing hard in the bronze medal game.

the point is that finland thinks all those bronzes mean something and pound their chests being happy being third best in a really 5 team tournament.

the finns should be happy with their bronze, but realize until they win golds and not bronzes, the respect won't be there. They need to win more juniors golds, more mens world championships golds, and a best on best eventually. They have one mens world championships in last 15 years, and one junior gold in the last 15 years, and no best on best ever.

sorry, and their individual talent doesn't measure up to other teams eventhough they play a good team game. Although with barkov and granlund their moving in the right direction.

the usa game was still a lot more of a challenge then finland was, and has better talent overall, and I would rather play finland rather then the usa if I had a choice.

Respect is just personal opinion. Point here is, Finland is top 3 country if you look at best on best tournaments since -98 ( World Cup silver in 04 included). [mod]

 

[TheFeistyFinn]

the point is that finland thinks all those bronzes mean something

ofcourse the bronzes mean something. you just can't deny it. it's not "thanks for participating" award given to everyone. ofc it doesn't mean as much as gold, not even close. but is is an achievement and something to be proud of.

yes we know our individual talent situation but hockey is team sport.
individual talent doesn't always win you medal, Russia is living proof of that.

 

[TheFeistyFinn]

Respect is just personal opinion. Point here is, Finland is top 3 country if you look at best on best tournaments since -98 ( World Cup silver in 04 included). If you deny that you are just trolling...

imo, not top3 but top4...Can,Usa,Swe are ahead of us.

 

[Arz1]

imo, not top3 but top4...Can,Usa,Swe are ahead of us.

Based on what USA is ahead? They are ahead of us in potential maybe. But potential is worthless if you don't have anything to show for it.

 

[Tap on the Ankle]

I would probably put Finland 3rd as well, behind Canada and Sweden. They have no gold, but the Finns have medalled in 5 of the 6 biggest competitions in the last 15-20ish years (the 5 Olympics with NHLers + 2004 World Cup).

And the one time they didn't medal? They placed 6th in 2002 Olympics, but they were knocked out by the eventual winners Canada in the quarterfinal and the score was much closer than Canada's next two games (2-1 vs the Finns, 7-1 vs Belarus, 5-2 vs USA). The next most consistent team is Canada, who have medalled in 4 of the 6 tourneys.

 

[Poignant Discussion*]

You gotta be joking, right? Member since 2004 and doesn't have a better clue about ice hockey and it seems like you are not the only one. I've been a registered user on these forums for 2 days and that is 2 days too many. End of rant, I'm out ->

These boards have gone to hell the past few years, sorry to see you go.

Finland is 3 no matter what others say, results mean more then potential

 

[llwyd]

I don't think Finland is disrespected, but it really is perennially underestimated. Each nation brings its particular strength to play and our particular strength to outperform as a team is I guess quite difficult to perceive. Though when it happens pretty much every bloody year one should think that people should already count for it...

 

[hitmen19]

I don't think Finland is disrespected, but it really is perennially underestimated. Each nation brings its particular strength to play and our particular strength to outperform as a team is I guess quite difficult to perceive. Though when it happens pretty much every bloody year one should think that people should already count for it...

the only thing I would say to this is that its always the same script besides torino.

you beat the teams that you should in the prelims, lose to the better ones.

upset a team usually in the qf, lose in the semi finals and win the game that no one want to be in for bronze. I think one year you have to win it all, and you will get all the respect you desire.

 

[Arne]

again, for umpteen time, there is no where do I say don't play hard for the bronze, or the usa shouldn't be ridiculed for not playing hard in the bronze medal game.

the point is that finland thinks all those bronzes mean something and pound their chests being happy being third best in a really 5 team tournament.

the finns should be happy with their bronze, but realize until they win golds and not bronzes, the respect won't be there. They need to win more juniors golds, more mens world championships golds, and a best on best eventually. They have one mens world championships in last 15 years, and one junior gold in the last 15 years, and no best on best ever.

sorry, and their individual talent doesn't measure up to other teams eventhough they play a good team game. Although with barkov and granlund their moving in the right direction.

the usa game was still a lot more of a challenge then finland was, and has better talent overall, and I would rather play finland rather then the usa if I had a choice.

 

[Roland of Gilead]

I think one year you have to win it all, and you will get all the respect you desire.

Finland has lots of respect so we don´t need yours, bye bye.

 

[llwyd]

Finland has lots of respect so we don´t need yours, bye bye.

Yeah, I think we can do without, don't call us, we'll call you...

 

[johnny_rudeboy]

I think a healthy Finland could have beat Sweden and won gold over Canada this year with Rask in net.

He's more than capable of "stealing" one game against anybody, especially if he has Finland's best in front of him.

And let's be honest, Finland would trade all of those bronze medals for one gold.

Hm, no. Yes, a healthy Finland could have beaten Sweden or they might not. A healthy Sweden however would have been much better then what they iced in this tournament. And even do Rask is incredible I rate Lundqvist a bit higher and he was indeed Swedens best player against Canada but that only meant we lost 3-0 instead of 8-0. I dont see how Finland could have done anything different even with Rask.
When a team like Canada manages to play as a team like this lot did they are incredible hard to beat, and I am talking about knock out games here, not the warm up games before everything gets serious.

There have been talk about who is second behind Canada and I think it is fair to say that Sweden, Finland, USA and Russia all can make a claim for that spot but ranked in the order above. You can not just base the ranking on the senior teams result in the most recent tournament but have to take in to account how the junior team is doing, how the individual players are doing in the NHL and perhaps even in the KHL etc and how they have looked in tournaments going back a few years. As Canada have shown their depth is filthy deep and they can lose players who is recognised by everyone as a star player but call some one else in and dont loose much if any quality.
And you just have to look at their junior teams success to see where the depth is coming from. From 2005 to 2009 they won 5 straight gold (3 straight silver before that) and the key players from todays national team comes from those groups.

What Finland and Sweden showed was that they managed to ice competetive teams even do they where missing some of their best players, that is a sign of strength even do we are not even close to Canada. Russia however managed to ice their best but the coaching, the defence and I guess their team culture let them down. They are however still producing good players and won the World juniors championship in 2011 and the World championship in 2012 so they are still up there with the best. USA is perhaps in a similar situation as Russia, lots of skilled individuals but depth is a concern and they rarely play their best hockey when it is needed the most. But in the US case it will be interesting to see how they keep develop their national team seeing as they have made progress with their hockey programs in recent years. More to come from them me thinks.

 

[llwyd]

Well, this is a well rehearsed topic (and meaningless if we just talk about what ifs - ther tournament results are the only objective criteria), but as a straightforward fact this really is unchallenged: the shallower the depth, the more significant are the losses of top players - because of the simple and undeniable fact that a significantly shallower player pool won't allow them to be replaced with almost as good players. So, of all these three teams, Canada suffered least and Finland most, though Sweden did have significant losses too.