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Yeah, I really didn't like being alerted to Sephiroth so early in the story, the way that they did it. The original composition of the villain was way better, he's a subtle echo in the background of everything else going on.
I loved everything about the remake except for that and the SHINRA building where the execution was poor. When you get captured and then wake up with the doors open, the blood everywhere, there's no music and you find the President dead with the giant sword in his back? That was perfect.
It especially didn't help that his appearances and monologues were really cheesy in general, in a bad Anime kind of way.
My biggest gripes were how Sephiroth's build-up was handled, the annoying convolutedness of the fate sub-plot (and how, at least tentatively, it seems go against the main theme of the original, although this may be intentional deception), and how the consequences/accountability of Avalanche kept being second-guessed and cheapened. Which sucks because these are arguably the most important functions of the Midgar part of the story, and they nailed virtually everything else BESIDES that instead.
I did think that the first half of the Shinra building was an improvement, though. Those mini-games going up the floors were absolutely miserable nonsense in the original, and they turned it all into something pretty substantial (especially all the propaganda material). But once you got to Hojo after the Shinra meeting sequence, it kind of went to hell.
Not really on precise topic, but figured it should go here rather than elsewhere. Yesterday I finally fired up the original FF7 and put in a few hours (I'm in the train graveyard). For context, I'm a big RPG fan but for some reason never played the original when I was younger. I own the remake but decided on sort of a whim to buy the original and play it prior to delving into the remake.
I've played enough that it really has its hooks in me, so I imagine I'll be playing for several hours more today after I knock out some various tasks this morning. At first I was a bit apprehensive, because I find the texturing makes it confusing to navigate around the overworld a bit, but part of that might really just be that I need to get the hang of the game a little more.
I'm somehow spoiler free though I do know the dialogue is known for not being the best translation, and that's noticeable as I'm playing. Still really getting my bearings with the battle, but I think my approach has worked pretty well. I'm excited to keep tearing through it – I can already feel a sort of pull to get back and put some time in, and I'm going to be doing some hopefully non-spoiler poking around to orient myself even more. The only thing I'm really kicking myself about is that I have the PSN playable version rather than the Switch, as it would be very useful to have it on handheld.
One thing I really appreciate about the remake is that it's causing a lot of people to play the original, almost encouraging it rather than replacing it. Cool to see.
Not really on precise topic, but figured it should go here rather than elsewhere. Yesterday I finally fired up the original FF7 and put in a few hours (I'm in the train graveyard). For context, I'm a big RPG fan but for some reason never played the original when I was younger. I own the remake but decided on sort of a whim to buy the original and play it prior to delving into the remake.
I've played enough that it really has its hooks in me, so I imagine I'll be playing for several hours more today after I knock out some various tasks this morning. At first I was a bit apprehensive, because I find the texturing makes it confusing to navigate around the overworld a bit, but part of that might really just be that I need to get the hang of the game a little more.
I'm somehow spoiler free though I do know the dialogue is known for not being the best translation, and that's noticeable as I'm playing. Still really getting my bearings with the battle, but I think my approach has worked pretty well. I'm excited to keep tearing through it – I can already feel a sort of pull to get back and put some time in, and I'm going to be doing some hopefully non-spoiler poking around to orient myself even more. The only thing I'm really kicking myself about is that I have the PSN playable version rather than the Switch, as it would be very useful to have it on handheld.
Not sure if you've figured this out yet, but pressing "select" will display a cursor and label all the exits/ladders on the map. That helps a lot with the navigation problems.
Also, you should know that a lot of essential story and lore in the game is hidden behind optional missable sequences that you have to trigger, and it really changes the experience and helps things make more sense if you do. Here's a list of triggers if you're interested-- I'll keep it vague and spoiler-free as possible.
1. Once you get a certain vehicle and are about to enter a red mountainous area, there is a reactor town that you can miss right before that area, and a village area within that town that can also easily be missed. If you have Aerith and Tifa in your party, talking to one of the people in the houses will trigger a pretty important story sequence.
2. In the town in the red mountainous area, be sure to stop and talk to the Elders before gathering around the fire with your party. They provide some lore details and hints. There's also a very nice story sequence that triggers if you return to this town right before you enter the final dungeon in the game-- most people miss it.
3. There are various points in Cloud's hometown where you can read the letter in Tifa's room and it will provide different lore. Once in a flashback, once when you first visit it, and once more late in the game (let's just say after Disc 3 because I don't remember the exact moment it becomes available-- you need to play Tifa's theme on the piano to trigger this one). Each time provides a pretty important puzzle piece to the story.
4. In the Shinra Basement in Cloud's hometown, there are tons of hints, clues, and foreshadowing if you examine the area (specifically, the books in the study and the test tubes). If you return BACK to this basement after a big plot twist in the game is revealed, it will trigger what's arguably one of the most important scenes in the game (crazy that this is optional). There's also a hidden character in this building that is story relevant that can be obtained by opening the safe (this can be done at any point). You can look that up if you're curious.
5. If you obtain the hidden character above, at some point, you'll be able to travel to a waterfall that will provide more background/story.
6. When you get to a snowy town, there is a house with machinery that provides a massively important lore dump. See it before you exit the town, because you'll be temporarily locked out and what's coming up will make much less sense if you don't.
Also, you should know that a lot of essential story and lore in the game is hidden behind optional missable sequences that you have to trigger, and it really changes the experience and helps things make more sense if you do. Here's a list of triggers if you're interested-- I'll keep it vague and spoiler-free as possible.
1. Once you get a certain vehicle and are about to enter a red mountainous area, there is a reactor town that you can miss right before that area, and a village area within that town that can also easily be missed. If you have Aerith and Tifa in your party, talking to one of the people in the houses will trigger a pretty important story sequence.
2. In the town in red mountainous area, be sure to stop and talk to the Elders before gathering around the fire with your party. They provide some lore details and hints. There's also a very nice story sequence that triggers if you return to this town right before you enter the final dungeon in the game-- most people miss it.
3. There are various points in Cloud's hometown where you can read the letter in Tifa's room and it will provide different lore. Once in a flashback, once when you first visit it, and once more late in the game (let's just say after Disc 3 because I don't remember the exact moment it becomes available-- you need to play Tifa's theme on the piano to trigger this one). Each time provides a pretty important puzzle piece to the story.
4. In the Shinra Basement in Cloud's hometown, there are tons of hints, clues, and foreshadowing if you examine the area (specifically, the books in the study and the test tubes). If you return BACK to this basement after a big plot twist in the game is revealed, it will trigger what's arguably one of the most important scenes in the game (crazy that this is optional). There's also a hidden character in this building that is story relevant that can be obtained by opening the safe (this can be done at any point). You can look that up if you're curious.
5. If you obtain the hidden character above, at some point, you'll be able to travel to a waterfall that will provide more background/story.
6. When you get to a snowy town, there is a house with machinery that provides a massively important lore dump. See it before you exit the town, because you'll be temporarily locked out and what's coming up will make much less sense if you don't.
Thanks, this is exactly the kind of pointers I am looking for, since I'll be moderately taking my time and enjoying things, and hoping to get the full experience (of a mostly complete first play through, anyways). I'm not avoiding spoilers full-on, but for the most part I'm trying to steer clear and enjoy the ride, only checking guides and things like that intermittently or selectively for key things not to miss.
Thanks, this is exactly the kind of pointers I am looking for, since I'll be moderately taking my time and enjoying things, and hoping to get the full experience (of a mostly complete first play through, anyways). I'm not avoiding spoilers full-on, but for the most part I'm trying to steer clear and enjoy the ride, only checking guides and things like that intermittently or selectively for key things not to miss.
If you're completely spoiler-free (that'd be surprising), you should also know that there's a giant "Luke I am your father"-esque spoiler in the game that people will casually hint at and is likely to be spoiled if you poke your head around too much.
Also, some random interesting tidbits that you may have missed if you're at the train graveyard and playing blind:
If you complete all the side-quests in Wall-Market (which gives Cloud items to look more attractive), you can get Don Corneo to pick Cloud. One of those side-quests lets you enter Honey-Bee Inn, where some of the weirdest and most questionable nonsense in the game happens.
Looking through one key-hole shows some CEO doing some freaky role-play
Looking through another key-hole shows a too-wholesome old couple being treated to a love hotel by their son (implied to be Reeve).
Entering one room has Cloud get into a hot tub with an army of muscular men in speedos
Entering the other room triggers another Cloud-PTSD sequence that results in a muscular man in a speedo waking him up.
(had a video of the key-hole scenes but it had the huge spoiler on it)
Do you @Shareefruck or any others have a quick set of pointers on materia, or a place where I could read about it? I've mostly gotten a handle on things, but at times it feels like an overwhelming amount of new things to take in, and I'm not sure if there's a precise strategy I should be aiming to follow. One obvious thing seems to be keeping everyone's slots filled up in the active party, so that the materia gains AP.
Does this mean as a rule of thumb that you should try and keep your materia inventory somewhat tight, in the sense that you should be rotating a lot of materia onto characters as you swap them into your party, rather than possessing for example an extra fire or ice materia so that you don't have to keep swapping the same fire or ice between two characters?
The other general gameplay/strategy question I have is whether or not it's also a rule of thumb to try and keep rotating your party members in order to keep everyone in the vicinity of the same level? I've ended up doing this so far, partly because I spent a small chunk of time yesterday grinding in forests to get Yuffie in my party. I think I might have overleveled just a bit because I whooped the fish boss' ass pretty easily. The party I had/have been preferring is Tifa and Aeris, though Yuffie seems to be the second best party member for now.
Do you @Shareefruck or any others have a quick set of pointers on materia, or a place where I could read about it? I've mostly gotten a handle on things, but at times it feels like an overwhelming amount of new things to take in, and I'm not sure if there's a precise strategy I should be aiming to follow. One obvious thing seems to be keeping everyone's slots filled up in the active party, so that the materia gains AP.
Does this mean as a rule of thumb that you should try and keep your materia inventory somewhat tight, in the sense that you should be rotating a lot of materia onto characters as you swap them into your party, rather than possessing for example an extra fire or ice materia so that you don't have to keep swapping the same fire or ice between two characters?
The other general gameplay/strategy question I have is whether or not it's also a rule of thumb to try and keep rotating your party members in order to keep everyone in the vicinity of the same level? I've ended up doing this so far, partly because I spent a small chunk of time yesterday grinding in forests to get Yuffie in my party. I think I might have overleveled just a bit because I whooped the fish boss' ass pretty easily. The party I had/have been preferring is Tifa and Aeris, though Yuffie seems to be the second best party member for now.
Casting (and re-casting when depleted) Regen and Haste at the start of a fight is a very common and essential strategy for tough bosses (arguably barriers as well).
I'd recommend three setups for whatever the active party is and ignore inactive members. You'll get a chance to swap materia if they're forced into your party. If swapping is a pain, you might be doing it the long way. If you choose Arrange->Exchange on the Materia menu, you can quickly manage everyone at the same time. I don't find having multiple copies of the same materia useful. You just want to make sure each active member is able to do some magic damage that doesn't get absorbed in that area and that should suffice.
I'd suggest identifying which materia will likely be uniquely useful long term and make sure those ones always get AP even if you're not using them (keep an eye out for weapons/armor with double/triple growth). You don't really have to worry about AP growth for the ones that you currently use but won't stay useful for long. For example, whatever summon materia you have tends to become useless as you obtain progressively stronger ones (outside of a handful with useful status effects) and they also make your HP really low. It's also a waste of time to worry about AP growth for the green element-based materia because Contain, Comet, Ultima, and Enemy Skill ends up being better options later in the game (hell, they might even be useless early in the game if you're learning good Enemy Skills). Sense and most of the status-effect materia aren't very useful either-- I tend to just ignore them. The most interesting materia are usually yellow, blue, or purple, I find.
The most useful/broken materia in the game by a landslide is Enemy Skill, because it only takes up one slot, and if you learn the right stuff, it contains stronger versions of some of the most useful spells in the game, at a lower MP cost on top of that. Always keep that equipped so that you can learn things that you're hit by. Matra Magic is good early on, Trine/Aqualung is likely your strongest offensive spell for a while, White Wind is more efficient than Cure, and Big Guard sets up Haste, Barrier, and MBarrier in one casting (you're unlikely to run into the latter two without looking it up, though)
I don't think it's that important to use every character, personally. They'll be weaker if you neglect them, but it's not the end of the world (especially the less story important ones). They'll moderately level up even if you don't use them.
Specific quirks:
Weapons with high attack% can be taken advantage of with Deathblow (255 w/ Deathblow means double damage every turn). Pairing it with MP/HP absorb, Added Cut, or blue counter is very useful as well.
The most reliable status effect (even for bosses) is probably Paralysis-- Cross Slash and Chocomog inflict this. Added Effect-Chocomog can be very useful early on. Added Effect is very useful in general for both infliction and protection.
Putting cover with as many counters and counter attacks as you have on one person is useful. If cover is leveled up and you're facing a swarm, you could get several extra attacks per turn-- just keep that character healed.
A mastered All materia can be sold for 1.4 million-- doing that once will pretty much leave you set for cash for the rest of the game.
1. Once you get a certain vehicle and are about to enter a red mountainous area, there is a reactor town that you can miss right before that area, and a village area within that town that can also easily be missed. If you have Aerith and Tifa in your party, talking to one of the people in the houses will trigger a pretty important story sequence.
2. In the town in the red mountainous area, be sure to stop and talk to the Elders before gathering around the fire with your party. They provide some lore details and hints. There's also a very nice story sequence that triggers if you return to this town right before you enter the final dungeon in the game-- most people miss it.
3. There are various points in Cloud's hometown where you can read the letter in Tifa's room and it will provide different lore. Once in a flashback, once when you first visit it, and once more late in the game (let's just say after Disc 3 because I don't remember the exact moment it becomes available-- you need to play Tifa's theme on the piano to trigger this one). Each time provides a pretty important puzzle piece to the story.
4. In the Shinra Basement in Cloud's hometown, there are tons of hints, clues, and foreshadowing if you examine the area (specifically, the books in the study and the test tubes). If you return BACK to this basement after a big plot twist in the game is revealed, it will trigger what's arguably one of the most important scenes in the game (crazy that this is optional). There's also a hidden character in this building that is story relevant that can be obtained by opening the safe (this can be done at any point). You can look that up if you're curious.
5. If you obtain the hidden character above, at some point, you'll be able to travel to a waterfall that will provide more background/story.
6. When you get to a snowy town, there is a house with machinery that provides a massively important lore dump. See it before you exit the town, because you'll be temporarily locked out and what's coming up will make much less sense if you don't.
Re: number 2, do you recall how many elders there are? I missed this step, but was able to find a walkthrough video on youtube and see the dialogue about the Promised Land with one, and I found a script site with dialogue about Professor Gast / Jenova. The script site seems to have a lot of events from various parts of the game intermixed, so I gleaned a quasi-spoiler and don't want to poke around too much more.
It's taking some getting used to with some of these things. So far it seems like a lot of the important/useful optional stuff is more or less placed in front of you (such as #1, though it is funny that you can skip the town if you aren't careful). I think I'm coming up on the ability to do #3-4 now.
Re: number 2, do you recall how many elders there are? I missed this step, but was able to find a walkthrough video on youtube and see the dialogue about the Promised Land with one, and I found a script site with dialogue about Professor Gast / Jenova. The script site seems to have a lot of events from various parts of the game intermixed, so I gleaned a quasi-spoiler and don't want to poke around too much more.
It's taking some getting used to with some of these things. So far it seems like a lot of the important/useful optional stuff is more or less placed in front of you (such as #1, though it is funny that you can skip the town if you aren't careful). I think I'm coming up on the ability to do #3-4 now.
This one isn't quite as essential as some of the others. The Gast realizing his mistake with Jenova tidbit was mainly why I thought it was important, but looking it up gave me this:
Elder Hargo
Ahh, here it is.
My job is to gather all the legends and the knowledge of the planet and to make a book.
Then, even when I return to the planet, the children may still be taught about many things...
Mmm? Oh, we have guests. Good, good.
I know, I know.
You came to ask me something, right? Am I right?
Cloud
It's about the Promised Land
Elder Hargo
...The Promised Land. So you want to know...?
There is no one place called the Promised Land. That's what I believe.
No no, it does exist. Hmmm...... you can say that too.
In other words, it doesn't exist for us, but it did for the Ancients.
The Promised Land is the resting place of the Ancients.
The life of the Ancients is one continuous journey. A journey to grow trees and plants, produce animals, and to raise Mako energy.
Their harsh journeys continued throughout their lives...
The place they returned to after their long journey... Their burial land is the Promised Land.
Huh? Supreme Happiness? I believe that, for the Ancients, it was the moment that they were able to return to their Planet,
At that moment they were released from their fate, and gained their supreme happiness...
At least that's what I believe. I really don't know whether or not it's the truth now.
Elder Bugah
Mmm...
What is it?
Cloud
The story of the Ancients...
Elder Bugah
You can't talk of the Ancients, without mentioning Professor Gast.
He used to come here sometimes.
He was a Shinra scholar who spent his life studying the Ancients.
He was a serious person, never would have figured he'd be with the Shinra.
Must've been about 30 years ago, when he found the corpse of an Ancient. He was elated!
If I recall... he named it 'Jenova' and was doing a lot of research...
One day, he showed up here, looking real distressed.
He was mumbling something about Jenova not being an Ancient and that he'd done a terrible thing...
He's been missing since then. I heard that he never went back to Shinra
So, if you ever see Professor Gast, I want you to tell him...
That the old man that likes to drink in Cosmo Canyon, wanted to hear about the Ancients.
Well, there's lots to talk about,
but most things about the Ancients are all legend and folk tales, and no one knows the truth.
With #1, a lot of people only see the Shinra/reactor sequence but either don't see the fork in the second screen, or don't have Aerith or Tifa in their party when they do.
This one isn't quite as essential as some of the others. The Gast realizing his mistake with Jenova tidbit was mainly why I thought it was important, but looking it up gave me this:
Elder Hargo
Ahh, here it is.
My job is to gather all the legends and the knowledge of the planet and to make a book.
Then, even when I return to the planet, the children may still be taught about many things...
Mmm? Oh, we have guests. Good, good.
I know, I know.
You came to ask me something, right? Am I right?
Cloud
It's about the Promised Land
Elder Hargo
...The Promised Land. So you want to know...?
There is no one place called the Promised Land. That's what I believe.
No no, it does exist. Hmmm...... you can say that too.
In other words, it doesn't exist for us, but it did for the Ancients.
The Promised Land is the resting place of the Ancients.
The life of the Ancients is one continuous journey. A journey to grow trees and plants, produce animals, and to raise Mako energy.
Their harsh journeys continued throughout their lives...
The place they returned to after their long journey... Their burial land is the Promised Land.
Huh? Supreme Happiness? I believe that, for the Ancients, it was the moment that they were able to return to their Planet,
At that moment they were released from their fate, and gained their supreme happiness...
At least that's what I believe. I really don't know whether or not it's the truth now.
Elder Bugah
Mmm...
What is it?
Cloud
The story of the Ancients...
Elder Bugah
You can't talk of the Ancients, without mentioning Professor Gast.
He used to come here sometimes.
He was a Shinra scholar who spent his life studying the Ancients.
He was a serious person, never would have figured he'd be with the Shinra.
Must've been about 30 years ago, when he found the corpse of an Ancient. He was elated!
If I recall... he named it 'Jenova' and was doing a lot of research...
One day, he showed up here, looking real distressed.
He was mumbling something about Jenova not being an Ancient and that he'd done a terrible thing...
He's been missing since then. I heard that he never went back to Shinra
So, if you ever see Professor Gast, I want you to tell him...
That the old man that likes to drink in Cosmo Canyon, wanted to hear about the Ancients.
Well, there's lots to talk about,
but most things about the Ancients are all legend and folk tales, and no one knows the truth.
With #1, a lot of people only see the Shinra/reactor sequence but either don't see the fork in the second screen, or don't have Aerith or Tifa in their party when they do.
Thanks again – it is useful to get the context. Normally I am careful enough to take my time, but some of the good stuff is really buried, or it can be easy to overlook in my experience. For example, in relation to what you pointed out in #4 on the original non-optional rec stuff:
Even though I did the safe sidequest initially when I got to the Mansion, but somehow I missed the room with Vincent in it when I went into the basement.
That inability to tak my time thoroughly might be just as good of a quick comment on my thoughts so far: I am quite hooked, pushing 27 hours only since Friday, which is quite a lot of time for me in a short span. I like the dynamic between the different elements in the game, although in some ways I am feeling like only now am I starting to get the hang of the combat.
I remmber reading a discusson between you and some others in an earlier part of this thread (I think) about how this game really tried to push what was possible with its ambition, which in some ways explains what might seem like shortcomings when the game isn't put into clear context. I could be mistaken about that, but even without consciously looking into that context, I get that sense as I am playing. There are some ways in which I think the game feels a bit abrupt, both in its delivery of the story and in how it handles transitions between parts of the game, IMO. I don't really read these as major faults – the lack of handholding is actually a welcome relief for me, largely – and I'm also interested in doing some reading about the game once I blast through the rest of it.
I'm actually really enjoying the combat system. The fact that your magic and abilities can miss or be interrupted means you need to turn your brain on and use them strategically.
I did the rest in easy mode lol but ya doing all that was a grind. Luckily for me, first time around I got clouds and areiths best dress so less work 2nd/3rd time around.
Well now that we're a few months removed from the release, I must say....
This game didn't do it for me. Looking at my avatar, this might seem like a surprise, but it just didn't grip me and make me want to keep playing... Granted, I didn't play through the entire game, but I just fizzled out from it. At launch I was ecstatic, I dove in, but still made sure I took the game somewhat slow, as to not blow through it, but I rarely felt like picking it back up.
I've always been a bit more into the older games, and the revival of the old FF7 Universe was incredible, but the novelty faded away pretty quickly for me. Maybe I'm just too stuck in having the original PS1 version in my head as what the game "Should" be and the digressions from that just don't work for me.
Well now that we're a few months removed from the release, I must say....
This game didn't do it for me. Looking at my avatar, this might seem like a surprise, but it just didn't grip me and make me want to keep playing... Granted, I didn't play through the entire game, but I just fizzled out from it. At launch I was ecstatic, I dove in, but still made sure I took the game somewhat slow, as to not blow through it, but I rarely felt like picking it back up.
I've always been a bit more into the older games, and the revival of the old FF7 Universe was incredible, but the novelty faded away pretty quickly for me. Maybe I'm just too stuck in having the original PS1 version in my head as what the game "Should" be and the digressions from that just don't work for me.
I went in with the mindset of I will be judging this game in two ways, as a standalone game and as a remake. As a standalone game I think it was borderline exceptional, like 8.5-9.5. It really was. As a remake? I think it missed the mark by a fairly significant margin and would give it a 5.5-6.5.
To be completely candid, if you asked me prior to Shinra HQ I would have given it an 8ish as a remake rating. If not for the epic motor ball fight, it would probably even be a bit lower. I just think that Shinra HQ is one of the areas that would have benefited from staying close to the original. The Hojo piece felt way too drawn out. I hated the change of what they did with President Shinra, the Barret death and revival, the removal of being locked up in the holding cells and instead changed it to Aeriths room etc. And while I know they had a dedicated lighting team to work on this game, I felt the lighting in Shinra HQ was awful.
I would argue that the first half of Shinra HQ in the remake was far far superior to the first half of Shinra HQ in the original, which was a tedious slog for the most part.
* The stairway/elevator scene was perfectly adapted
* Barrett's little speech at the window to contextualize what the game's about was great
* Using the exhibits/propaganda for storytelling/lore/context/enemy character development was an absolutely inspired touch, especially that awe-inspiring VR scene
* The Domino stuff was kind of whatever-- I could have taken or left it, but The infantry-men part was a neat touch
* The Aerith/Hojo confrontation is excellent
* The staff meeting scene was good
* Red XIII's introduction felt kind of random because of the story change (although it's understandable), but was mostly fine
* The Turks scene was a fantastic and seemingly underappreciated addition (probably did a better job of communicating what the Turks were than anything in the original, really)
* Waking up in Aerith's room with the mural was pretty cool, aesthetically, anyways
However, the game progressively goes to hell shortly after getting Red XIII, IMO, and I would argue that the second half of Shinra HQ in the original was far far superior.
* The whisper explanation felt more stupid than intriguing-- the "we have to prevent the bad ending!" thing sucked and was unconvincing
* The first Sephiroth confrontation is clumsy
* Hojo's lab is painfully tedious and meandering
* The Jenova-is-missing bit is completely underwhelming and butchered an almost can't-miss classic moment-- censorship is a really bad excuse, IMO. You can absolutely build dread and horror without showing real blood, and all of that magic was missing.
* President Shinra dangling, then being saved, then being stupidly allowed get his gun, resulting in a completely dumb and tension-free Mexican stand-off is probably the worst sequence in the game
* Killing and reviving Barrett to explain the Whispers is one of the cheapest plot devices imaginable
* The way that the music in the Jenova fight teases you and then bombastically pays off is one of the coolest moments in the game
* Not giving Rufus any context was not a big deal but was just plain weird
* The bike sequence was great
* The whisper stuff was awful
* The final Sephiroth fights were cool as a spectacle but felt premature and forced
* Randomly/ambiguously killing Wedge off-screen after bringing him back for no reason was really stupid
* Everyone appearing to survive Sector 7 and planting the idea that Biggs/Jessie/Zack might be alive is unforgivable trash (even if it turns out that they somehow aren't alive or are in another dimension or something)
* I actually really like the Zack reveal/final scene/final line of dialogue otherwise, and I think it's a good choice to confuse the audience in that way.
I agree with McKay, as a new game it was really fun and aside from the ending and how they go from there, I eagerly await the next part. But as a remake it's not good.
I think it's letting the game off the hook a little too easily to reduce it to just a remake purism thing, though. Even as a new game, those flaws are still flaws and the game's still exactly as good or bad as it otherwise would be, you just maybe wouldn't expect as much from it.
I beat the original FF7 last night, finally. The pacing of the game sort of jolted for me by the end, but I think this was partly my own doing and partly trying to play the game while very busy with other responsibilities. Basically, I was really pressing through at the very end, such that when I got to the entry point of the very last part of the end, I set the game down for a week and a half or two weeks. At one point I was getting very frustrated because the difficulty really seemed to spike in the final area of random encounters leading up to the last fight.
My personal distraction was worsened a bit by a decision I somewhat regret to start hewing fairly closely to a guide, thinking this might help me streamline and get through the story efficiently, which was mainly what I wanted. I think I still didn't quite have some of the gameplay mastered by the end of the game, especially in terms of which defense and accessory options to make use of for which parts. Materia was something I eventually got, but somewhat unevenly. Both of these gameplay aspects are things I'd like to improve on whenever I decide to replay the game after a while.
And I think I'll definitely do another run, totally separate from a stupid guide. In retrospect I really have a better sense for the various comments I've heard about the game over the years and an appreciation for how expansive and experimental it was. There were some times while I was playing that I had to remember exactly how long ago the game came out. All told, I don't know that I have any really unique observations to make about the game, although at some point I'll definitely seek out critical writing on it, as I'm sure it must be out there.
I'm happy with my decision to hold off on playing the remake until I played the original, even as I didn't do it entirely to have some kind of measuring stick to compare the two games (the basic impetus was that I wanted to experience the story all the way through before taking on the new game(s)). I'll probably take a little bit of a FF break before finally opening my copy of the remake, which now somewhat predictably is routinely 20 dollars cheaper than when I bought it. Still, looking forward to picking back up with the remake (I did play the demo) and going into it relatively blind, even if I have some guesses about the plot decisions/indications (
I presume Aeris won't die, or it's suggested she won't die, in the same way or at all, but please don't reply to this telling me anything on that front in the remake
) based on paying attention to this thread and elsewhere.
I played it and it was good enough...but I'm having trouble justifying a full $60 price tag.
What it does well it does really well; the combat, the graphics, the character models, the music and the character interactions.
They kept the materia system mostly faithful and that couldn't have been easy, and the battle system was fun.
But there's way too much padding.
This padding comes in good and bad forms.
Good padding is like the initial escape from reactor 7, the Jessie chapter, the first part of sector 5, all of Wall Market and the ascent of the Shinra building.
Bad padding is all of reactor 5, Shinra building descent, train graveyard, plate drop aftermath and chasing Corneo through the sewers.
For all they added, and it was a lot, they removed two of the first act's hardest-hitting scenes; the Jenova escape and Rufus Shinra's speech.
Don't even start me on what they did to Sephiroth.
Sephiroth from the OG was loved because he looks cool...but he was effective as a villain because he was mysterious!
I have absolutely no problem with flashbacks, or his ghost appearing to Cloud here and there...but they end the game WITH A f***IN SEPHIROTH BOSS FIGHT?!
Way to completely remove any mystique he has.
And the 'whispers'...the first game had whispers of the planet but they didn't interfere with the damn game, again see Sephiroth; subtlety, mystery.
I bet the game somehow macguffins a way for Aerith to either not die or be resurrected...her loss made the game hit that much harder!
And also in the OG Aeris was flirty and fun but with a sadness to her, while Tifa was broody; in the remake Aerith(!) could put you into a diabetic coma, while Tifa is normal.
The game is 110% fan-servicing circle jerk. It was hard but Nomura topped Kojima as the biggest hack in gaming.
...
The way to do it would have been three games:
FFVIIR 1: Start-Costa del Sol
FFVIIR 2: Costa del Sol-City of the Ancients
FFVIIR 3: City of the Ancients-End
The filler and lore they added - and no one gives an F if 'these ideas we had but couldn't put into Dirge of Cerberus or Advent Children!' get added.
It's gonna be like 6 games if they keep up at this rate, with the final coming out on the PS8, when I'm 65 years old.
I just wanted a cut for cut remake with a little exposition ffs!
It'd be an 8.5/10 if it was a totally new IP, but it's a 5.5/10 game that bumps to a 7/10 because of the FFVII skin and lore. Not a total let down but not exactly inspired either.
I played it and it was good enough...but I'm having trouble justifying a full $60 price tag.
What it does well it does really well; the combat, the graphics, the character models, the music and the character interactions.
They kept the materia system mostly faithful and that couldn't have been easy, and the battle system was fun.
But there's way too much padding.
This padding comes in good and bad forms.
Good padding is like the initial escape from reactor 7, the Jessie chapter, the first part of sector 5, all of Wall Market and the ascent of the Shinra building.
Bad padding is all of reactor 5, Shinra building descent, train graveyard, plate drop aftermath and chasing Corneo through the sewers.
For all they added, and it was a lot, they removed two of the first act's hardest-hitting scenes; the Jenova escape and Rufus Shinra's speech.
Don't even start me on what they did to Sephiroth.
Sephiroth from the OG was loved because he looks cool...but he was effective as a villain because he was mysterious!
I have absolutely no problem with flashbacks, or his ghost appearing to Cloud here and there...but they end the game WITH A f***IN SEPHIROTH BOSS FIGHT?!
Way to completely remove any mystique he has.
And the 'whispers'...the first game had whispers of the planet but they didn't interfere with the damn game, again see Sephiroth; subtlety, mystery.
I bet the game somehow macguffins a way for Aerith to either not die or be resurrected...her loss made the game hit that much harder!
And also in the OG Aeris was flirty and fun but with a sadness to her, while Tifa was broody; in the remake Aerith(!) could put you into a diabetic coma, while Tifa is normal.
The game is 110% fan-servicing circle jerk. It was hard but Nomura topped Kojima as the biggest hack in gaming.
...
The way to do it would have been three games:
FFVIIR 1: Start-Costa del Sol
FFVIIR 2: Costa del Sol-City of the Ancients
FFVIIR 3: City of the Ancients-End
The filler and lore they added - and no one gives an F if 'these ideas we had but couldn't put into Dirge of Cerberus or Advent Children!' get added.
It's gonna be like 6 games if they keep up at this rate, with the final coming out on the PS8, when I'm 65 years old.
I just wanted a cut for cut remake with a little exposition ffs!
It'd be an 8.5/10 if it was a totally new IP, but it's a 5.5/10 game that bumps to a 7/10 because of the FFVII skin and lore. Not a total let down but not exactly inspired either.
Agree with a lot of this, with some exceptions
* I'm not sure I'd consider Rufus' speech "hard-hitting" but it's very strange to leave out that bit of context. That's probably one area that I would have liked to see fleshed out more by at least showing hints of him before he becomes president.
* I think the way you describe Aerith in the OG is exactly how she is in the remake, and I think the portrayal was an improvement, actually, but I agree that Tifa was a bit too normal, cutesy, and upbeat, which makes her moments of story-required hesitation and self doubt a little less resonant. She should probably a bit more passive and reserved. Advent Children Tifa's voice and demeanor actually makes a bit more sense, even though that movie's awful.
* I feel like Costa Del Sol -> City of the Ancients isn't a meaty enough narrative to make a game out of it, and leaves too much for the first and third games.
* Agree 150% on compellingly built up mystery and subtlety being lost, especially with Sephiroth.
I beat the original FF7 last night, finally. The pacing of the game sort of jolted for me by the end, but I think this was partly my own doing and partly trying to play the game while very busy with other responsibilities. Basically, I was really pressing through at the very end, such that when I got to the entry point of the very last part of the end, I set the game down for a week and a half or two weeks. At one point I was getting very frustrated because the difficulty really seemed to spike in the final area of random encounters leading up to the last fight.
My personal distraction was worsened a bit by a decision I somewhat regret to start hewing fairly closely to a guide, thinking this might help me streamline and get through the story efficiently, which was mainly what I wanted. I think I still didn't quite have some of the gameplay mastered by the end of the game, especially in terms of which defense and accessory options to make use of for which parts. Materia was something I eventually got, but somewhat unevenly. Both of these gameplay aspects are things I'd like to improve on whenever I decide to replay the game after a while.
And I think I'll definitely do another run, totally separate from a stupid guide. In retrospect I really have a better sense for the various comments I've heard about the game over the years and an appreciation for how expansive and experimental it was. There were some times while I was playing that I had to remember exactly how long ago the game came out. All told, I don't know that I have any really unique observations to make about the game, although at some point I'll definitely seek out critical writing on it, as I'm sure it must be out there.
I'm happy with my decision to hold off on playing the remake until I played the original, even as I didn't do it entirely to have some kind of measuring stick to compare the two games (the basic impetus was that I wanted to experience the story all the way through before taking on the new game(s)). I'll probably take a little bit of a FF break before finally opening my copy of the remake, which now somewhat predictably is routinely 20 dollars cheaper than when I bought it. Still, looking forward to picking back up with the remake (I did play the demo) and going into it relatively blind, even if I have some guesses about the plot decisions/indications (
I presume Aeris won't die, or it's suggested she won't die, in the same way or at all, but please don't reply to this telling me anything on that front in the remake
) based on paying attention to this thread and elsewhere.
One thing that really annoys me is the common excuse that I hear over and over again that the
larger-than-life Jenova/Whisper/Sephiroth boss fights were necessary to create a satisfying conclusion/climax. I find that sentiment very childish.
The fact that people feel the need for their games to end in some gigantic dramatic boss fight is why games are still behind movies artistically, IMO. A fully developed President Rufus fight should have been more than enough to tie up loose ends and feel like a satisfying resolution, thematically and gameplay-wise, and it would have made the game that much better/more organic to end on a gradual cool-down to the more somber "leaving Midgar behind" focus without all the bull-**** loud noise "everything has to keep escalating!!!" distraction leading up to it, while leaving Jenova/Sephiroth as merely ambiguous question-mark cliff-hangers, IMO. It's perfectly fine and admirable to do things that way.
It isn't better storytelling to do it the way they did/the way that people expected, and it especially wasn't necessary. Contrary to what people were saying, non-climaxes can be used really effectively, especially in a multi-part story. Not everything has to end in a big explosion.
What's even more moronic is the persistent comment that "Everyone already knows who Sephiroth is and what he looks like, so there's no point in hiding him or building a sense of mystery around him" sentiment that I keep hearing. It's such a stupid idea. You can build a really effective, understated aura and atmosphere around something even if you're already aware of the history and fiction.
One thing that really annoys me is the common excuse that I hear over and over again that the
larger-than-life Jenova/Whisper/Sephiroth boss fights were necessary to create a satisfying conclusion/climax. I find that sentiment very childish.
The fact that people feel the need for their games to end in some gigantic dramatic boss fight is why games are still behind movies artistically, IMO. A fully developed President Rufus fight should have been more than enough to tie up loose ends and feel like a satisfying resolution, thematically and gameplay-wise, and it would have made the game that much better/more organic to end on a gradual cool-down to the more somber "leaving Midgar behind" focus without all the bull-**** loud noise "everything has to keep escalating!!!" distraction leading up to it, while leaving Jenova/Sephiroth as merely ambiguous question-mark cliff-hangers, IMO. It's perfectly fine and admirable to do things that way.
It isn't better storytelling to do it the way they did/the way that people expected, and it especially wasn't necessary. Contrary to what people were saying, non-climaxes can be used really effectively, especially in a multi-part story. Not everything has to end in a big explosion.
What's even more moronic is the persistent comment that "Everyone already knows who Sephiroth is and what he looks like, so there's no point in hiding him or building a sense of mystery around him" sentiment that I keep hearing. It's such a stupid idea. You can build an understated aura and atmosphere around something even if you're already aware of the fiction.
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