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Final Fantasy VII REBIRTH - Part 2

Shareefruck said:
It's going to be super hard for them to get Part 2 right-- much harder than getting the first game right, IMO.

For starters, unless they do this whole thing in three parts and go all the way up to the Northern Cave part (which involves WAAYY more content than the first game), there's pretty much no way to tell a satisfying cohesive narrative from start to finish, so it's inevitably going to feel like some episodic thing with an arbitrary cliffhanger. The first game fully works as its own story. On the bright side, at least there's a perfect opening for the second game.

Second, they're going to have a helluva tough time making the new characters that get introduced likeable and not dated. Cait Sith is like Jar Jar Binks, Cid is like an outdated socially unacceptable 50s sitcom spousal abuse archetype who was meant to be endearing in the 90s, and Yuffie's personality is very one-note and obnoxious. They'll need to heavily repurpose all of them to make it work in an expanded/more realistic script, whereas the first game involved the strongest characters in the original, and had the luxury to pull all of their characterization from it. On the bright side, at least Red and Sephiroth will seem like less hollow characters/mere tropey mascots in this one.

If they pull it off, I'll be very impressed.
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Square Enix; just how they make games and overall business model is just not my cup of tea. I still had a fantastic time playing this game and I do not know about anything else as I haven't played the rest of the original. But just the amount of convoluted aspects - getting some minor spoilers from my cousin who's played the original - really makes me into the "the glass is half empty" type of bloke for this remake franchise. Not sure I will get Part II even though it seems all the the major situations take place in it (knowing Square Enix, they're going to make Part II of this game into three different instalments). The Zack scene being so late in the game, when I was told it happens earlier on makes no effin' sense to me...why bring up a character who clearly has no part in this sequence of storyline? You know?
 
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Honestly, based on how they handled part 1, I think trying to speculate on the next game is somewhat foolish. They're very clearly comfortable making major changes to the story, in addition to filling around the edges with completely new supplementary story content.

A place we may think of as a weird or unsatisfying place to end based on the OG FFVII storyline may turn out to be very satisfying.

Honestly, I'm all here for it. Final Fantasy VII is an iconic game for many good reasons, but the storyline did have a lot of problems, even before a half-assed translation made complicated elements borderline incoherent without an explainer.

If they want to essentially re-write the game and just make sure to hit on the major moments and beats, I'd be fine with that.

I think they're almost certainly going to keep Aerith alive for a greater percentage of the game. It'll likely happen at the end of the 2nd cat instead of closer to a 3rd of the way through.
 
JaegerDice said:
Honestly, based on how they handled part 1, I think trying to speculate on the next game is somewhat foolish. They're very clearly comfortable making major changes to the story, in addition to filling around the edges with completely new supplementary story content.

A place we may think of as a weird or unsatisfying place to end based on the OG FFVII storyline may turn out to be very satisfying.

Honestly, I'm all here for it. Final Fantasy VII is an iconic game for many good reasons, but the storyline did have a lot of problems, even before a half-assed translation made complicated elements borderline incoherent without an explainer.

If they want to essentially re-write the game and just make sure to hit on the major moments and beats, I'd be fine with that.

I think they're almost certainly going to keep Aerith alive for a greater percentage of the game. It'll likely happen at the end of the 2nd cat instead of closer to a 3rd of the way through.
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I disagree. There are fundamental faults in the delivery of the ending that can't be fixed simply by being re-contextualized later by things we don't know yet and that aren't just based on how people originally expected it to go. It does the job of setting up the unknown and deftly building mystery and intrigue very tastelessly and inartfully, IMO (even if many people's curiosity is successfully piqued). Even if it all makes sense in the end and turns out to be the only way what they wanted to do could have been done, it would still be very inelegant and awkwardly delivered, IMO.

I do think that the Zack scene could end up working well, though. I disagree with the people who say that they presented it as if you were supposed to know who he is. It's a nice mystery box that leaves just enough for you to speculate about, without hammering you over the head with it the way the obnoxious Sephiroth/Whispers stuff is handled.

Also, that moment doesn't actually happen at the 1/3 point of the original. The first disc is essentially the size of the 2nd and 3rd discs combined. Even if they don't delay that moment and follow the original's placement, story-wise, it will still likely happen at the end of the second game, IMO. Even the point where I overly optimistically hope it will end (the mid-point of the OG) is only a section or two after that moment.
 
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Jovavic said:
They mentioned a conflict between Shinra and Wutai a few times, I think that's something they might add in...in what capacity, who knows?
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I kept forgetting to ask, that's not in the original is it? It felt like it could have been in the lore of the original that I just missed but I'm not sure
 
Jovavic said:
They mentioned a conflict between Shinra and Wutai a few times, I think that's something they might add in...in what capacity, who knows?
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aleshemsky83 said:
I kept forgetting to ask, that's not in the original is it? It felt like it could have been in the lore of the original that I just missed but I'm not sure
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The Wutai conflict is in the original and they're supposed to hate each other's guts (Midgar vs. Wutai was the war that Sephiroth became an admired hero from), but
when Shinra frames Avalanche for the plate coming down, they don't try to mislead people into thinking that it's Wutai meddling. One big difference is that in the original, Wutai had completely lost their will to fight/stand up for themselves after losing the war (that's the central backstory for Yuffie and her dad), whereas the remake kind of makes it sound like they're still a powerful nation that people are threatened by.

They can kind of still go in either direction with that. Maybe Midgar just perceives them as a threat because of internal propaganda used to control them even though they're a harmless resort town now like in the original.

One thing that I thought was a missed opportunity in the original and that I hope they change in the remake was that Wutai and Yuffie's obsession with Materia should have folded into the Huge Materia subplot (which is by far the weakest part of the original and makes no sense other than to serve as filler-- makes sense that that could be something that they see as a means to regaining power and would compete with Shinra for). Integrates Yuffie into the main story as presumably a required character this time around, adds more meaningful lore/context to the downtime/pointless busywork while Cloud is out of commission. Makes a lot of sense.
 
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Shareefruck said:
I do think that the Zack scene could end up working well, though. I disagree with the people who say that they presented it as if you were supposed to know who he is. It's a nice mystery box that leaves just enough for you to speculate about, without hammering you over the head with it the way the obnoxious Sephiroth/Whispers stuff is handled.
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I agree.

Even as someone who doesn't know who Zack is, that was easily explained as a fragment of Cloud's memory that you will learn about later.

A lot of stuff happened with Sephiroth that, to me, just felt like I had missed a whole lot of something along the way.

....which I suppose is technically true. I missed the entire original game. :laugh:
 
Commander Clueless said:
I agree.

Even as someone who doesn't know who Zack is, that was easily explained as a fragment of Cloud's memory that you will learn about later.

A lot of stuff happened with Sephiroth that, to me, just felt like I had missed a whole lot of something along the way.

....which I suppose is technically true. I missed the entire original game. :laugh:
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For the record, it's not even like the Sephiroth/whispers stuff makes total sense to anyone who played the original either. Some of what is mentioned references old material in a way that is completely antithetical to the primary theme of the original (that "literally denying fate" nonsense is some serious trope-y and childish BS that the original actually dispels/is more real and down to earth about-- although I guess it's possible that it might be a red herring-- hopefully it is), and you have to get like ten levels deep with conspiracy theories about obscure spin-off material to even begin to speculate about what might be happening.
 
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I just finished the remake, and agree with the consensus that the ending really muddies the water. I'm still cautiously optimistic for the eventual second game because the first was done so well, but who knows where things are heading. I'm still thinking through things, but I think the inclusion of Sephiroth so thoroughly was just ill-fated. I was actually somewhat hoping that there would be no fight with him at all in this one, despite the fact that it was clearly heading that way from early on.

I think things went awry a little bit even before chapter 18. Hojo could have been handled better, though in fairness I will say that those whack-a-mole enemies were one of the toughest fights in the game for me.

Overall, I'm not really sure how Shinra will continue to be involved in the followups. The game just sort of agglomerated the new elements into a somewhat rushed runthrough of the Shinra building, even though some of the parts of the ending dragged a little for me.

Those criticisms aside, I still really liked 95% of the game. I get the criticisms of the fetch quests, but they weren't too bothersome. I think overall, they opted for this heavy handed approach in order to really open up their options, and I'm willing to entertain them heading forward. I'll probably buy day 1 , though I worry about how long the next one will take. I have sort of two minds about it – partly I'm open to a slightly reworked, meta- involved type game, and partly I'd really rather just have the safe route of a slightly more linear / blunt but faithful remake, even though that's not fully possible it seems. I dunno, really I am still processing it. I played the original very recently for the first time, and there were still some key parts which made no sense.
 
I'm less worried about the story because it will be whatever it will be. I'm actually worried about how they have a smooth transition between games in the system.
 




They are also making a battle royale shooter (!) and seemingly a chapter-based remake of the entire compilation (!!!), both for mobile.
 
Missed opportunity not showing the apartment doors in this PS5 side-by-side.
 
GreatKeith said:
No Yuffie for PS4 players. Boo.
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Yeah, I don't love seeing that, since I would definitely buy day one and it seems like a PS5 will remain impossible to get for the foreseeable future.

The optimistic read of it could be that concentrating this "Remake 1.5" game on PS5 will allow them to fold some of the assets into the Remake 2 game, meaning it's reasonably close on the horizon, but that is probably excessively optimistic. Stands to reason that Yuffie will be in part 2 though, and the thought I had when seeing that new character is that he might play similar to Cid.

One cool thing in the Yuffie trailer is the combo moves between the characters. I wonder if it is too much to ask that this type of thing might be integrated into the PS5 upgrade as well? They didn't really show any specific gameplay type stuff in the trailer, but that would be a really nice improvement.
 
DJ Spinoza said:
Yeah, I don't love seeing that, since I would definitely buy day one and it seems like a PS5 will remain impossible to get for the foreseeable future.

The optimistic read of it could be that concentrating this "Remake 1.5" game on PS5 will allow them to fold some of the assets into the Remake 2 game, meaning it's reasonably close on the horizon, but that is probably excessively optimistic. Stands to reason that Yuffie will be in part 2 though, and the thought I had when seeing that new character is that he might play similar to Cid.

One cool thing in the Yuffie trailer is the combo moves between the characters. I wonder if it is too much to ask that this type of thing might be integrated into the PS5 upgrade as well? They didn't really show any specific gameplay type stuff in the trailer, but that would be a really nice improvement.
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The big part of the problem is Semiconductor chip shortage in a gobal scale and some big tech companies are hording them.
 
Surprised we haven't heard anything yet about the part two. Hopefully at the one year mark in April we hear something.
 
The Yuffie DLC looks.... very cheesy/cringe-y, fan-service-y, and unnecessary to me (and another aggressively over the top Anime antagonist, it looks like), but who knows, maybe it'll flesh out the Wutai part of the story (bits in the trailer didn't seem promising though). The PS5 version sounds promising, but they didn't really show any of the things that actually looked bad in the PS4 version, like the NPC models, door textures, and just how things generally look in the daytime.
 
The antagonist of the Yuffie thing is Weiss from Dirge of Cerberus, just as another reminder that all extended universe stuff is now considered essential text for FF7.
 
syz said:
The antagonist of the Yuffie thing is Weiss from Dirge of Cerberus, just as another reminder that all extended universe stuff is now considered essential text for FF7.
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Eww... Hopefully they keep that stuff to just the DLC and ignorable easter eggs.
GreatKeith said:
No Yuffie for PS4 players. Boo.
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Pretty good sign that actual future parts won't be for PS4 players too, I'd assume.

Some people get really mad about that, I'm just kind of on the fence, personally. Remake (which they didn't even name part 1-- maybe for a reason if they're going off the rails with this thing) did not feel like some episodic thing that you get short-changed on if you don't experience the rest. It feels like a cohesive standalone thing with a cliffhanger for the next game, like any other game franchise that crosses console generations. It might be unfortunate, but I don't think it's THAT unreasonable.
 
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Final Fantasy 7 Remake Intergrade Interview with Nomura Translation

So it sounds like the new boss for the Yuffie chapter/DLC is different than Weiss, based on this interview with Nomura. The stuff from the end of the trailer looks like the Deepground stuff from Dirge of Cerberus, however, which from what I understand is also referenced a fair bit throughout Remake, and also Yuffie's Moogle costume is taken from Dirge, and there's story parts with her as well, so it certainly seems like that's part of the equation somehow, even if Weiss himself is not the boss for the DLC.
 
DJ Spinoza said:
Final Fantasy 7 Remake Intergrade Interview with Nomura Translation

So it sounds like the new boss for the Yuffie chapter/DLC is different than Weiss, based on this interview with Nomura. The stuff from the end of the trailer looks like the Deepground stuff from Dirge of Cerberus, however, which from what I understand is also referenced a fair bit throughout Remake, and also Yuffie's Moogle costume is taken from Dirge, and there's story parts with her as well, so it certainly seems like that's part of the equation somehow, even if Weiss himself is not the boss for the DLC.
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They've definitely been referencing compilation material, but it's been more underhanded and non-distracting so far-- I hope it stays that way, and not actually like "Here's a Genesis boss fight".

Edit: Nevermind, read the interview-- it is Weiss, but they'll probably just re-introduce him in a different way. Ugh... that means that stuff like Genesis is still a very real possibility.

Also, it sounds like Nojima is writing both the remake and Ever Crisis. Hope he's either already done writing remake in its entirety or doesn't get spread too thin.
 
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