Fantasy GM Thread | Two Minutes to Midnight for Horvat?

[Mr. Canucklehead]

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[canuckking1]

High 7's on 8 Year term was always the right ceiling for Horvat.


It was nice watching you play for the Canuck Bo but it's now time to say goodbye

 

[4Twenty]

It’s like people forget where the cap was trending pre-corona.

They’ll end up paying what they wanted to for Horvat on a worse player.

 

[Canucks LB]

Honestly, Horvat deserves to get 8X8 somewhere, but if it’s not here, so be it, trade him and move on

 

[Mr. Canucklehead]

Honestly, Horvat deserves to get 8X8 somewhere, but if it’s not here, so be it, trade him and move on

I'll be sad to see him go if it comes to that. I don't necessarrilly have an issue drawing a line in the sand over cap when we have other big contracts on the horizon to look at. But the one thing that leaves kind of a sour taste is that they committed to Miller first rather than Horvat. That feels like a big misstep. And I count myself as a Miller fan that would have been sorry to see him go, too (although his start to this season is leaving a pretty rotten taste in my mouth)

 

[Canucks LB]

Also important to mention that they are willing to use a buy out next season per rick.

I really hope this means 0EL, it’s easily the best option, save a stupid amount of cap early, and take on the penalty when the cap is mooning.

 

[credulous]

Also important to mention that they are willing to use a buy out next season per rick.

I really hope this means 0EL, it’s easily the best option, save a stupid amount of cap early, and take on the penalty when the cap is mooning.

i don't see how an oel buyout makes sense until his play completely craters. it gets you cap room in years one and two but years 3 and 4 it's less than 3 mil in savings. those are the critical 'compete' years for this group you would think? if they're not the critical 'compete' years then you may as well hold onto him through them anyways

i guess if they are completely unable to move boeser/garland/myers without taking cap back buying out oel would allow a kuzmenko extension but i would think they would just give up picks at that point to move out money?

edit: actually a boeser buyout or a garland buyout probably makes more sense than moving them with picks. both buyouts get you more than 4 mil per in space for the first two years and have relatively little impact beyond that

 

[ahmon]

To whichever team pays him more than 8 million on a long term deal, I want to say good luck.

 

[Vector]

 

[4Twenty]

Buyouts? These guys truly are kings of serving two masters

 

[m9]

This is just the same we've heard every year of the last decade. Just Dhaliwal spouting out dumb things.

I don't think any of the forward contracts make sense as a buyout. Nothing even looks remotely useful. Any of the usual names you are better off burying or retaining salary in a trade.

Obviously not Demko - so you're left with the D.

A Myers buyout does basically nothing because of the contract structure.

Literally the only name that has any impact is OEL because it's a massive savings in 2023-24... a year the team isn't going to be contending for anything. Then you are taking a hit for the next 7 years of between 2.4-4.8 million. I just think this would be very poor long-term planning. If they do this to free up space in 2023-24 then this organization has seriously lost the plot.

 

[Vector]

OEL's Buyout:

Boeser's Buyout:

Myers' Buyout:

Garland's Buyout:

Pearson's Buyouy:

Poolman's Buyout:

Stillman's Buyout:

 

[theguardianII]

Buyouts? These guys truly are kings of serving two masters

Actually a Garland buyout would save a fair bit of cap space, over 3 million, more than if they retained 50% in a trade.
OEL can be bought out after next year but then he could be traded because the majority of his contract is paid, next year is 10 mil.
There are pretty much no others needed to be bought out.

Players in their last year don't get bought out unless there re superior replacements of they are in on a very good FA and need added space

 

[Peen]

None of the above man

If Horvat is leaving, just take a major step back for two years and then reevaluate the contract situations then

 

[m9]

Thanks for posting all that.

Just to expand with all that in front here now:

Boeser/Garland/Pearson - Better off retaining in a trade so you can get some value back and the cap hit doesn't extend out.

Poolman - LTIR seems like his destiny.. so why?

Myers - Does nothing

Stillman - Better off burying

OEL - Only one worthy of discussion

 

[canuckking1]

Canuck should just trade Miller too. Who cares about contract ethics etc.

 

[Vector]

If I were suddenly parachuted into this management team and had authority, I'd be trying to move Miller as well. Trade them both for the best possible assets. If that's draft picks, they can either be used in the draft or utilized as ammo to acquire a young player that can help now (Dach trade, Chychrun, etc.).

Would be weird to keep Miller but, to me, kind of depends on the return. If they target someone to immediately replace Horvat's roster spot then I can squint and see where they've convinced themselves that Miller's playmaking would benefit a young centre. I don't think it's a good plan but I understand the thinking.

 

[racerjoe]

Lets all remember Rick gets his info from agents, so take the parts that sound like they come from management with a giant grain of salt.

 

[Vector]

Lets all remember Rick gets his info from agents, so take the parts that sound like they come from management with a giant grain of salt.

The funny thing with Dhaliwal is that while we don't know his specific sources with the Canucks, he usually says that he was told by someone "in" or "connected" to the organization. So he either gets his information directly from agents or gets out the message that the Canucks want. He's pretty open about it. Either way, we all need to understand the spin.

 

[TruGr1t]

Haha, I like Horvat even more as he gives them the finger walking out the door. This Miller/Horvat situation is just brutal ... even worse, I firmly believe trading Miller and retaining Horvat (if you weren't trading both) was blatantly the right way to go even without the gift of hindsight.

The only silver lining is now they might now be forced to move both Miller and Horvat because there is no way they can re-sign Horvat.

 

[theguardianII]

Thanks for posting all that.

Just to expand with all that in front here now:

Boeser/Garland/Pearson - Better off retaining in a trade so you can get some value back and the cap hit doesn't extend out.

Poolman - LTIR seems like his destiny.. so why?

Myers - Does nothing

Stillman - Better off burying

OEL - Only one worthy of discussion

Disagree Garland makes sense cap hit goes from 5 mil down to less than 2 except one year. Garland is small and 27 this year with 5 more years at 5 mil.

Canuck army had an article about possible defencemen 26 yrs old the Canucks could try for.

Brandon Carlo, Logan Stanley, Kevin Bahl, Andrew Peeke, Lucas Johansen, Sean Durzi, Pierre-Olivier Joseph, Zach Whitecloud, Philippe Myers, Dante Fabbro I left out the 5'9" dmen.

 

[Luck 6]

I don't think a buyout makes sense for OEL either. We get savings in year 1, but in year 2 and 3 we would have so much dead cap space, it would be difficult to even get a replacement player for the difference. OEL hasn't been great this year, but I don't think he's been bad enough to warrant that. I would wait for his play to fall off completely before we bother with this.

My opinion may change if we get a replacement player under contract for less than the difference that can play similar minutes. Perhaps a return in the Horvat trade, or Rathbone steps up, etc.

 

[Canucker]

Honestly, I don't think these guys know whats going on...I believe its pure speculation, the Canucks are in shambles, the management group runs a tight lipped ship, and the media needs content to discuss...this is just low hanging fruit for discussion.

 

[Nucker101]

OEL's Buyout:

View attachment 620418

Boeser's Buyout:

View attachment 620419

Myers' Buyout:

View attachment 620420

Garland's Buyout:

View attachment 620422

Pearson's Buyouy:

View attachment 620424

Poolman's Buyout:

View attachment 620426

Stillman's Buyout:

View attachment 620427

 

[Luck 6]

So what's the mutual opinion on how to approach Kuzmenko?

I am of the mindset that we should be trying to trade him. His agent stated that he will not open negotiations until the season is done, if that is the case it would seem to signal that he isn't planning on re-signing in Vancouver.

Unless there is something our management knows that I may not be considering, I don't think we can afford to let this guy walk for nothing. We should be able to trade him for a 1st I would think.