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OT: Failure of a team, Failure of a rebuild

Senovision

Senovision

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May 23, 2011
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This Sens team, this year, is without a doubt theeeee most frustrating team we have ever had since we got an NHL franchise. On paper they seem to be a better team than their placing in the standings.
Just when you think a player is sucking, then they go out and have a great game. Just when you think they are going to win, they lose. When you think they are going to lose they win. When you think the goalie is going to suck, suddenly they magically play a good game. Just when you thought they were starting to turn it around, they regress. It's been one step up, two steps back all season long.
They are so frustrating.
 
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L'Aveuglette

L'Aveuglette

つ ◕_◕ ༽つ
Jan 8, 2007
48,563
20,917
Montreal
Senovision said:
This Sens team, this year, is without a doubt theeeee most frustrating team we have ever had since we got an NHL franchise. On paper they seem to be a better team than their placing in the standings.
Just when you think a player is sucking, then they go out and have a great game. Just when you think they are going to win, they lose. When you think they are going to lose they win. When you think the goalie is going to suck, suddenly they magically play a good game. Just when you thought they were starting to turn it around, they regress. It's been one step up, two steps back all season long.
They are so frustrating.
Click to expand...

Exactly this.

Frustratingly unpredictable. Extremely uneven and inconsistent regardless of the high level of talent on the ice. Never know which team will show up on any given night. Phooey!
 
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guyzeur

guyzeur

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Mar 25, 2009
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Ottawa
jbeck5 said:
They also need more game breaking talent.

Stutzle is the only player I have confidence to regularly put up a point per game. Other teams generally have multiple. Well, the top teams anyways.

We have zero swagger because we don't have those big name players that command swagger and success.
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Maybe but another star in the same hockey style would also been a failure

Loss of Hamonic or lack of a couple of big right VETERAN Def
Multiples loss of games played (injuries, suspension) to important players like Pinto, Norris, Chabot, Greig, Batherson, Forsberg
New coach and GM should have happened a lot sooner (coach 3 years and GM 4 years ago) - I'm blaming the whole Melnyk family
- Different coaching style, more defensively responsible or being accountable
- Better special teams

- So many bad trades/picks and acquisitions
- better use of our budget
- lack of funding in amateur and pro scouting
 
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Loach

Loach

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Jun 9, 2021
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Karterthadon said:
People are massively overrating the players we drafted during this rebuild. There's good players here for sure, but every team in this league has good players. But is there any special, generational talent here? Nope, that's the shitty part of rebuilds, you have to suck on the right years where generational talent is available to be had.

So what do you do? Not much you can do, keep accumulating talent until it gets better.
Click to expand...
We didn't draft any players. Lol.
 
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bert

bert

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Nov 11, 2002
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Oscar The Grouch said:
This is hilarious historical revisionism. At the time, we all applauded Dorion for locking down our young stars. Specifically, in a market that no one wanted to play in. Especially American players. It was a coup!

And now?
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You know what the real problem was throughout all of it. Was asset management and roster Construction. Which we all talked about but were told picks don't matter. Now there's no prospects and no depth and a team that was built wrong.

Been saying it for years. Not only that how you build and operate a small market team is nothing like a big market. It's a continuous building and not wasting assets. It's the only way to be competitive. That's why they have to do another retool. Hard to do without one of your first round picks. Though, hard to do with boat anchor contracts like Korpisalo.

One last f*** you by Dorion to screw the team into the future before he high tailed it out to tremblant.
 
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Xspyrit

Xspyrit

DJ Dorion
Jun 29, 2008
31,641
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Montreal, Canada
Karterthadon said:
People are massively overrating the players we drafted during this rebuild. There's good players here for sure, but every team in this league has good players. But is there any special, generational talent here? Nope, that's the shitty part of rebuilds, you have to suck on the right years where generational talent is available to be had.

So what do you do? Not much you can do, keep accumulating talent until it gets better.
Click to expand...

ok but generational talent doesn't come that often...

You have Crosby and Ovechkin who were drafted almost 20 years ago, you have McDavid, you have Matthews who is generational in the goal scoring aspect and Erik Karlsson who would have been generational without the injuries. Plenty of Elite players too. We have Stutzle and Sanderson who were both 21 y/o a few weeks ago who could also be elite (Stutzle was elite last season at 20-21 y/o)

The point is the vast majority of teams do without generational talent
 
bert

bert

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mysens said:
LOL, there is no chance in hell we win the draft lottery. We are doomed even with that.
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Literally every team has won one except the sens and Cyotes of all the teams that have been bad for the last decade. One of us is due.

Ottawa has some really good pieces but they need a mini overhaul. I also think the leadership in the room needs to be shook.

They have great center depth a #1 d man and a Unicorn winger. That's a great base. But the rest is built wrong. They have to get harder to play against all throughout the lineup. The goaltending is an absolute disaster. I think they gotta trade Chabot, his effort levels and compete are simply not acceptable from a leader on this team. They also need a coach that will grab stutzle by the scruff of his neck and shake some God damn sense into him. These temper tantrums need to stop. Looking at the ref, needs to stop. The body language is pathetic. He needs to grow the hell up and fast.

This idea that they need to turn the entire roster over isn't realistic or plausible. Can't deal from weakness with too many guys. But they do need to have some major shake ups.

Look what Detroit did with its goalies. They have 3 same with Toronto. The sens need to find an inexpensive third option that's a veteran then just waive one of Korpisalo or Forsberg whoever is worse. Brossoit would fit and they don't have to break the bank.

Some of the young talent that's cheap is fine in its roles. Kelly, Crookshank, Kastelic, Kleven, JBD, Macewen etc. But they can lose their job any night if someone is pushing from Belleville. Need to keep the bottom of the roster competitive. I'd prefer to have someone alot more physical and tougher than McEwen in that role if possible.

Core pieces to keep

Forward

Pinto, Tkachuk, Stutzle, Greig, Batherson, Giroux, Joseph

Defense

Sanderson, Zub

I think they should trade Chychrun and Brannstrom right now for literally anything they can get. Whatever is the best return. Neither are what this team needs on D. Too inconsistent/soft/easy to play against

Trade Chabot before his NTC kicks in, in the summer. This is a complicated deal but he's gotta go.

Buy out Hamonic or force early retirement and give him a job in the org.

Start building a d core that's hard to play against. That's how you win in this league. What they have is simply way too soft. They basically need a new 2nd pair all together.
 
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guyzeur

guyzeur

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Mar 25, 2009
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Ottawa
Xspyrit said:
ok but generational talent doesn't come that often...

You have Crosby and Ovechkin who were drafted almost 20 years ago, you have McDavid, you have Matthews who is generational in the goal scoring aspect and Erik Karlsson who would have been generational without the injuries. Plenty of Elite players too. We have Stutzle and Sanderson who were both 21 y/o a few weeks ago who could also be elite (Stutzle was elite last season at 20-21 y/o)

The point is the vast majority of teams do without generational talent
Click to expand...
This picture of past winners would argue the opposite
1709818886887.png
 
jbeck5

jbeck5

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Jan 26, 2009
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Xspyrit said:
ok but generational talent doesn't come that often...

You have Crosby and Ovechkin who were drafted almost 20 years ago, you have McDavid, you have Matthews who is generational in the goal scoring aspect and Erik Karlsson who would have been generational without the injuries. Plenty of Elite players too. We have Stutzle and Sanderson who were both 21 y/o a few weeks ago who could also be elite (Stutzle was elite last season at 20-21 y/o)

The point is the vast majority of teams do without generational talent
Click to expand...

Depends what you call generational. But also, I don't think people are saying you have to have the best player in the game...but it's way more likely you win with a couple high end players.

Where does 100pts patty kane fall on this list? Where does 100-130 pts kucherov fall on the list? 110 point MacKinnon?

They're not generational, but they're top 5 players.

I don't think it's crazy to say that most Stanley Cup winners have a top 5 player on their team.

We need that Uber star..not generational, but who can compete for best player in the league on good years.

Way more winners with a player like that on board than without.

Over the last 15 years or so, these are the winners:

2009: Pittsburgh (Crosby, malkin)
2010: Chicago (Kane)
2011: Boston (no superstar)
2012: LA (no superstar)
2013: Chicago (Kane)
2014: LA (no superstar)
2015: Chicago (Kane)
2016: Pittsburgh (Crosby, Malkin)
2017: Pittsburgh (Crosby, Malkin)
2018: Washington (Ovechkin)
2019: st Louis (no superstar)
2020: Tampa Bay (kucherov)
2021: Tampa Bay (kucherov)
2022: Colorado (MacKinnon)
2023: Vegas (no superstar)

We have 10-5...or twice as likely to win with that superstar who can get like 100 points on good years.


I don't know why that surprises us. Our best playoff year was when we had the pizza line where 3 guys could put up 100 point paces.


We desperately need 1-2 guys to be able to put up 100 points while not being bad defensively.
 
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Bileur

Bileur

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Jun 15, 2004
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Sting said:
People saying it's so difficult to do in Canada - I don't entirely agree. We were headed for what looked to be a fairly good rebuild (albeit we didn't get lucky with a superstar) if not for the absolute, complete disregard for asset management the past 3 years. With the first rounders and second rounders handed out like candy, most teams would have been able to secure a starting goalie and a good top 4 RD. At the very least.

Instead I see the team more or less being a borderline/middle of the pack team until the inevitable rebuild 2.0 happens in 3-5 years.
Click to expand...

I agree. Another thing that is absolutely key to a rebuild is weaponizing your cap space.

The sens did the opposite of that and missed out on lots of opportunities to add talent to the organization.
 
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Nac Mac Feegle

Nac Mac Feegle

wee & free
Jun 10, 2011
35,412
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I hope Staios and Andlauer follow the Boston model. Get a solid culture going. High emphasis on accountability. Strong leadership core - on and off the ice. All about TEAM. You don't need a superstar when your have a band of brothers team heavy culture going on.

But...it's one hell of a tall order. Need a lot of time to move past the last regime and awful bungling reputation, and a group of players to set the new (and lasting) tone. Make it so that a decade from now, everyone in the league and in college/junior know what it takes to wear and represents the Sens organization. And you've got to earn it. And once you have, you're proud to wear that sweater.
 
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Beech

Beech

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Nov 25, 2020
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Icelevel said:
The problem was hiring Dorion as GM. Hated it from the start and had a feeling we were doomed when that happened. And then the zibanejad trade and then,….
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You can take it a step further back.

Brian Murray should never have been left in his position past teh 2010-2011 season. Once they collapsed and jettisoned Fisher and Kelly, it was year 4 of his tenure. It should have been year last.

A new GM then, could have forged a different road. But Eugene wanted his "Eugene Whisperer"..

They kept hi, and 5 years later, his minion.
 
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