OT: Failure of a team, Failure of a rebuild

[DrEasy]

"I like to eat crayons"

"I"

 

[RedWhiteBlackGold]

Like I said last night too many poodles not enough pitbulls on this team. They have no bite in heir game, they're too easy to play against.

Remember last season when Florida was in a rut and Keith Tkachuk said they need to play with more heart and effort like Ottawa?

 

[Answer]

This is exactly what happens when you over-hype certain players and on top of that start handing out 8mill+ contracts to everyone on the Team

 

[AchtzehnBaby]

We are a failure

 

[Senovision]

We are a failure

We are.....but we are really good at it, we don't just half ass failure.

 

[Oscar The Grouch]

This is exactly what happens when you over-hype certain players and on top of that start handing out 8mill+ contracts to everyone on the Team

This is hilarious historical revisionism. At the time, we all applauded Dorion for locking down our young stars. Specifically, in a market that no one wanted to play in. Especially American players. It was a coup!

And now?

 

[ACLEVERNAME]

Starting to believe there is a cancerous lump on this team. I hate it because I love his game so much but 'the bigger picture' is starting to emerge IMO. It's shown itself on more than a few occasions now.

(Sens) Life is suffering.

 

[Answer]

This is hilarious historical revisionism. At the time, we all applauded Dorion for locking down our young stars. Specifically, in a market that no one wanted to play in. Especially American players. It was a coup!

And now?

Locking up young players long term is one thing. Over paying them is another thing

I was quite vocal expressing my feelings about how Norris contract is bad when it comes to how much he is being paid

 

[Golden_Jet]

I think we need all of that including more talent.

We definitely need better defensive play. Better goaltending. Etc.

Everything you say is true, except we also need more high end talent. Look at the majority of cup winners. If you adjust for league scoring, historically winners will have multiple ppg players who can produce that while being defensively conscious.

Look at when Ottawa was good. We had 3 RW that could drive a line and produce while playing with second line or even third line talents.


We don't have 3 guys who could drive a line with middle 6 players and produce and be + players.

Or we had the pizza line days with 3 guys who could put up 100 point paces.


It's not that it can't be won with a more balanced team. You don't need to show me examples.

It's that the much more successful approach is to have a few superstars.

Vegas broke that mold , with 2-60+ point getters and 4-50 point getters.
Physical and bigger defenders is also what’s needed.

 

[Cosmix]

3 losses in a row including a loss at home to the Coyotes. Maybe the state of affairs is not entirely DJ’s fault, maybe (with the exception of 3-4 guys) the team is just bad. What a mess!!

I doubt that many posters here though it was DJ's fault. Dorion and Melnyk deserve a large portion of the blame too.

Rebuilding in Canada is very hard. Most players have Canadian teams on their NTC's/NMC's and more often than not UFA's would rather sign in the US. The Oilers were gifted one of the greatest players ever and to this point we haven't won anything with him. Keep up the good fight, keep the core together and try to continue drafting and developing players. Not much else that can be done given the current environment in the NHL IMO.

The Oilers were gifted with 2 of the best players ever (Gretzky and McDavid). One did deliver massively.

I agree that Canadian teams are at a disadvantage due to taxes and weather.

 

[Cosmix]

I don't agree with the argument that we're screwed or necessarily heading for another rebuild. Personally, I still believe in the building block pieces of Tkachuk, Stutzle, Sanderson, and and the next ring of Giroux, Pinto, Greig, Batherson and Chabot/Chychrun. Things are not that bad.

I look at the Vancouver example. They had a bad GM (maybe not a historically incompetent one like Dorion, but certainly not good) who left behind a foundation of Hughes, Pettersson, Miller and Demko. With different management and better coaching, they've been able to build around those guys and turn that team into a cup contender.

I absolutely see all the damage Pierre Dorion did to this organization, but I still believe we can build a winner around the foundation we have. Staios just has to do a really intelligent job.

Staios is still unproven and somewhat of an unknown as a NHL GM.

 

[Senator Stanley]

Staios is still unproven and somewhat of an unknown as a NHL GM.

And he's been left with very little margin for error. But I still see a path for this group - give or take some pieces - to be successful.

 

[Cosmix]

Vegas broke that mold , with 2-60+ point getters and 4-50 point getters.
Physical and bigger defenders is also what’s needed.

I agree that we need a better D core; one that is bigger, stronger and more physical. Adding a big, strong, physical top 4 RD would be a top priority.

Plus we need to improve the goaltending. The current 2 we have are not getting the job done.

We have a 3.27 GF/G and a 3.59 GA/G.
Top GF/G is 3.65. Top GA/G is 2.36.

I think our GF/G is decent. Our GA/G is atrocious.

We will not win games and make the playoffs until the GA/G is improved significantly.

That will require improved play without the puck by all 6 players on the ice (2D, 3F and the 1G).

 

[Cosmix]

And he's been left with very little margin for error. But I still see a path for this group - give or take some pieces - to be successful.

I agree that he has very little margin for error; in fact he has no margin of error due to the Dorion/Smith legacy.

I like some of the players in their roles at their salary levels; some others are not doing their job at their salary level.

 

[Race Dawg]

My current Give-A-Shit meter doesn't appear to be working....

I am completely dialed out on this current team. Nor do I have any faith or confidence in this group of players and/or the management team.

 

[Nac Mac Feegle]

Melynk didn't fund the team (on and off the ice) well enough to give the organization a solid chance of success.

Dorion had no idea what he was doing and was in over his head, but his ego wouldn't allow him to use the rare bit of help provided to him. In the last two years, he made big splashy headline trades (Cat, Chych) to look good to the media instead of doing what was best for the team long term. It left Staios one hell of a mess to fix. He also catered to the young core too much. Yes, you want to lock down Timmy, Brady and Thomas, but....you also have to set expectations on them. Organizational standards and expectations (think Boston culture and accountability) was never implemented, which is what you desperately need for such a young team.

And that leads to DJ. Smith let the kids run wild and go all offense all the time. Padding stats and looking good to the casual observer, but absolutely ruining any kind of foundation for these players that you need to win a Cup. It's not 1984 anymore and we don't have a Gretzky on the team....we're not winning games 8-6 anymore. Having a good team defense is critical...and that also falls on the assistants (Cap is a big one here that needs to take more blame).

Players. Yes, they're young. Yes, they want to have fun. But, that's not an excuse. You have a few guys in the organization who had dads or uncles who played int he league. The concept of being a pro on and off the ice shouldn't be a foreign concept here. Sacrificing a few personal stats to play a 200-foot game shouldn't be like pulling teeth with this group.

This also includes the goalies who drastically need to improve their mental game....it's one thing to play like crap when the skaters aren't doing anything..it's another to let in weak goals when the skaters have been putting in a defensive effort. This tit for tat going on with the netminders having their worst games when the players in front of them are putting in an above average effort (for this team, anyways) feel more like mental weakness than actual incompetence.



Now all that exhausting crap said, the rebuild isn't a failure....yet. We have talent. We have some experience. We have a new owner and GM who will start fixing things. There is still a chance to turn things around.

 

[DanyHeatley]

Major shake up:

OTT
Norris, Brannstrom
CGY
Kadri

OTT
Chychrun, Forsberg
NSH
Saros

Off-season
Waive Korpisalo, Hamonic
Sign UFA Demelo/Dumba/Carrier
Bring back Tarasenko

1A Tkachuk - Stutzle - Giroux
2A Joseph - Pinto - Tarasenko
2B Grieg - Kadri - Batherson
4A Jarventie - Kastelic - Macewen

Sanderson - Zub
Chabot - Demelo
Kleven - Dumba/Carrier

Saros
Soogard

 

[bicboi64]

I only want Kadri on this team if him and Greig are on the same line and both troll the Leafs

 

[Xspyrit]

We're looking at way too many things. Problems are simple (but not necessarily easy to fix) IMO :

- Goaltending. It wasn't a strength for sure but it became the worst in the league this season

- Coaching : 4+ seasons of DJ Smith. Can't play "the right way" after a few weeks/months when you've been playing the wrong way for so long, particularly with the lack of practice time.

- Roster make up : too many similar players in similar positions (Wing and LHD). Bottom-6 is still a bit ineffective. Having guys like Hamonic and Kubalik ended up being a detriment to the team

I think many of this team's problems are mental, they are often beating themselves. Like too often trailing early in games and start playing with some urgency and with more focus when they are in a hole

Locking up young players long term is one thing. Over paying them is another thing

I was quite vocal expressing my feelings about how Norris contract is bad when it comes to how much he is being paid

Norris contract was signed on July 2022, I don't blame Dorion too much on this one. Every player is at risk with injuries and it's clear what Norris problem has been because he was a beast before his injuries

A 22 y/o 2-way center pacing for 43 goals and 68 points facing top competition regularly...

 

[AchtzehnBaby]

How can we caall the rebuild a failure when we are just starting it?

 

[BonHoonLayneCornell]

How can we caall the rebuild a failure when we are just starting it?

We are officially the Ottawa Sabres now. Rebuild # 2 time. Last one to 10 tossed seasons is a rotten egg.

 

[Karterthadon]

People are massively overrating the players we drafted during this rebuild. There's good players here for sure, but every team in this league has good players. But is there any special, generational talent here? Nope, that's the shitty part of rebuilds, you have to suck on the right years where generational talent is available to be had.

So what do you do? Not much you can do, keep accumulating talent until it gets better.

 

[Back in Black]

Rebuild was a massive failure!​

Which ones... Murrays or Dorions...

Both had the revolving door policy of players and coaches...

 

[PlayOn]

People are massively overrating the players we drafted during this rebuild. There's good players here for sure, but every team in this league has good players. But is there any special, generational talent here? Nope, that's the shitty part of rebuilds, you have to suck on the right years where generational talent is available to be had.

So what do you do? Not much you can do, keep accumulating talent until it gets better.

Lots of teams do well without generational talents, they are rare.

It’s possible our players aren’t high-end enough but I don’t think we know that yet either. It’s not like they’ve maxed out their potential. Today, it’s a true statement, but not every player peaks early — and our best two, Stützle and Sanderson, are both still very young.

 

[Xspyrit]

Which ones... Murrays or Dorions...

Both had the revolving door policy of players and coaches...

Murray only could rebuild "on the fly". The team fell off the rails in 2008-09 but we couldn't rebuild due to Alfredsson and Melnyk contexts

We still made the playoffs 5 times in the next 8 seasons and won 3 rounds. We had some mitigated success and had a good prospect pool when Dorion took over. 7 years of Dorion were downright terrible, couldn't build anything while doing a FULL rebuild and plenty of quality assets for trade, plus left with a bare prospect pool.

It's not even close to being comparable. Murray was able to keep the team competitive while keeping Melnyk in check and rebuild the whole scouting department and the bare prospect pool from when he took over.