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F Ryan Leonard - Boston College, NCAA (2023, 8th, WSH)

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This whole discussion about his playmaking is a little baffling to me. Their line is literally designed and coached so that he's finishing more often than playmaking. Maybe it would be a better idea to evaluate the raw tools present in his game. There were plenty of instances where he showed competent and in some cases genuinely impressive playmaking. Take this clip, for example. He intercepts a turnover, gains the OZ, backhand saucers to himself, shifts through traffic a bit, and sends a crisp, high difficulty pass through defenders to a flanking Smith. He's an extremely complete player, tbh. And his frame is actually still lacking for muscle, so it's not like he's anywhere close to a plateau. There's lots of room for a tremendously high ceiling

 
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Unger9 said:
This whole discussion about his playmaking is a little baffling to me. Their line is literally designed and coached so that he's finishing more often than playmaking. Maybe it would be a better idea to evaluate the raw tools present in his game. There were plenty of instances where he showed competent and in some cases genuinely impressive playmaking. Take this clip, for example. He intercepts a turnover, gains the OZ, backhand saucers to himself, shifts through traffic a bit, and sends a crisp, high difficulty pass through defenders to a flanking Smith. He's an extremely complete player, tbh. And his frame is actually still lacking for muscle, so it's not like he's anywhere close to a plateau. There's lots of room for a tremendously high ceiling

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This is precisely the problem with Leonard and really, the entire team. The NTDP has a highly refined process and has become extremely good at putting players in specific roles to make the most of their + talents and minimize or hide their - aspects. It's a machine that makes scouts jobs a lot more difficult.

You're basically looking for those instances and exceptions where a guy steps outside their given "role" to speculate and project what they'll do in a more traditional NHL fit.


It's the same thing with Moore. Is he just being held back offensively by his deployment as a 2nd line C and with lesser PP minutes? Or are they just maximizing his 5v5 utility and hiding his lack of real creative playmaking and offensive instincts? Perrault...is he really going to be a dynamic play driving offensive creator at the NHL level, or are they sheltering his lack of footspeed by pairing him with a Top-5 pick sort of offensive creator and floating his lack of footspeed with a really high end complementary player like Leonard?

It's murky. It relies on a lot of projection based on very small examples of stepping outside that intended realm. Picking out tiny instances where a guy did something that hints at more than their role within the highly structured NTDP context.
 
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biturbo19 said:
This is precisely the problem with Leonard and really, the entire team. The NTDP has a highly refined process and has become extremely good at putting players in specific roles to make the most of their + talents and minimize or hide their - aspects. It's a machine that makes scouts jobs a lot more difficult.

You're basically looking for those instances and exceptions where a guy steps outside their given "role" to speculate and project what they'll do in a more traditional NHL fit.


It's the same thing with Moore. Is he just being held back offensively by his deployment as a 2nd line C and with lesser PP minutes? Or are they just maximizing his 5v5 utility and hiding his lack of real creative playmaking and offensive instincts? Perrault...is he really going to be a dynamic play driving offensive creator at the NHL level, or are they sheltering his lack of footspeed by pairing him with a Top-5 pick sort of offensive creator and floating his lack of footspeed with a really high end complementary player like Leonard?

It's murky. It relies on a lot of projection based on very small examples of stepping outside that intended realm. Picking out tiny instances where a guy did something that hints at more than their role within the highly structured NTDP context.
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Yeah good point, but even in other leagues scouts encounter this problem, which is why they probably get to ask questions of the coaching staff. Moore for example, as you mentioned, at a certain point as GM/scout I wouldn't feel comfortable picking him unless I've talked to the NTDP coaching staff about the exact nature of his deployment. But the question with Leonard is much, much easier to answer than it is with Moore. IMO it's very clear that Leonard's IQ and playmaking are sufficient enough to at least reproduce his same role in the NHL to the tune of 25G, 35A, 60pts. Then you have the fact that he's a high end puck retriever and competitor. I think he's a slam dunk high end prospect

While here, with Moore I would want to hear from their staff that they coached him with at least a partial defensive/shutdown mindset and didn't exactly optimize his line for offensive production, the latter being somewhat obvious anyways :laugh:. I thought Moore looked much better with Eiserman. I also am led to believe that his tools, such as elite speed, have come on rapidly and recently, such that he hasn't had super amounts of time to put his whole game plan/mantra together in the OZ. Couple that with having linemates not conducive to high end production, and I'd be comfortable taking Moore as early as #7
 
The "structure" of the USNTDP is really being overstated here. These are the best of the best when it comes to American talent. If you are deployed in a top six role it's because you merit being in that role. HF is once again creeping into this narrative that if a prospect has drive, grit, and determination they must somehow be lacking in skill. Leonard doesn't lack skill. He's a very skilled player. He just happen to have the "intangibles" that HF seems to love when it suits an agenda.
 
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Rabid Ranger said:
The "structure" of the USNTDP is really being overstated here. These are the best of the best when it comes to American talent. If you are deployed in a top six roles it's because you merit being in that role. HF is once again creeping into this narrative that if a prospect has drive, grit, and determination they must somehow be lacking in skill. Leonard doesn't lack skill. He's a very skilled player. He just happen to have the "intangibles" that HF seems to love when it suits an agenda.
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He has a ton of skill with real ability to make one on one plays. When I watched him, especially live, he was the best player on the ice a ton of shifts.
 
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Looking more and more likely that it is him for the Habs.. if it isn't, it is because they preferred Reinbacher's positional need and saw both in the same tier.
 
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CaptainAmerica said:
Your posts didn’t age well.. there’s probably at least five I can tag you on.
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Please do, happy to tell you which I stand by! I would’ve told you heading into the draft that I now viewed Leonard as a top 10 lock.

I was pretty confident the Habs wouldn’t take a dman that high, whether or not I think it was a mistake or not, I was wrong. But what are you referring to?

I dropped Cristall since those posts, I was also very high on Yager, I stand by that!

My final rankings have Benson ahead of Smith and Yager top 10, also had Leonard at 7 in the end…some opinions changed, some didn’t.

26 picks in and my top 23 are gone, I like my rankings.
 
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This guy just wins. Looking for highlights of his board play and hits but its all just playmaking, high roller puck possession and goal scoring highlights

Excited to have a grinder with high end stick skills. Looks like the boy can skate.

Is he a 200 foot player? Play on the PK?

Im f***ing excited
 
I dont know anything about the draft but I listened to Sportsnet drafts coverage.

Can anyone explain to me how a 6'0" 190lb kid is a power forward? He even said he was a power forward in his interview.

No doubt that the kid is a good player, and I can see how hes the type of player you win with. But is he really a power forward?
 
FlameChampion said:
I dont know anything about the draft but I listened to Sportsnet drafts coverage.

Can anyone explain to me how a 6'0" 190lb kid is a power forward? He even said he was a power forward in his interview.

No doubt that the kid is a good player, and I can see how hes the type of player you win with. But is he really a power forward?
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He's a unicorn.

Watch him play. Leonard is absolutely a power forward.
 
FlameChampion said:
I dont know anything about the draft but I listened to Sportsnet drafts coverage.

Can anyone explain to me how a 6'0" 190lb kid is a power forward? He even said he was a power forward in his interview.

No doubt that the kid is a good player, and I can see how hes the type of player you win with. But is he really a power forward?
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He is an absolute brick wall. Any player that runs into him gets rocked. Physically strong, a sniper, and underrated playmaking skills.
 
FlameChampion said:
I dont know anything about the draft but I listened to Sportsnet drafts coverage.

Can anyone explain to me how a 6'0" 190lb kid is a power forward? He even said he was a power forward in his interview.

No doubt that the kid is a good player, and I can see how hes the type of player you win with. But is he really a power forward?
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It just depends on which power forward definition you subscribe to as they seem to vary quite a bit and have evolved from the lumberjack power forward days of the 90s/2000s.

He lacks the hulking size of the prototypical power forward. And he doesn't rack up PIMs for the sake of it, either. But he does play a powerful game. He's a very compact, strong, and tough player packaged with excellent skill. He's a menace all over the ice and his work in the though areas (i.e., boards, net front, etc.) is impressive.

Whether or not that meets the definition of power forward is not all that relevant.
 
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Not going to lie and say I did a 180 on Leonard. I think I said early in the draft season that I wouldn't take him first round.

Where I will give him credit is I actually thought he showed some good improvement in the second half of the season. 8th was way too rich for me, but I moved him all the way up to 20, and I didn't expect that would happen. I definitely felt he was a riser as the season went on.

My main issue with his game are still his playmaking. I think people who think he's some 35+35 player discount that you have to pass the puck a lot better than he is to get 35 assists. He's improved in this area. I think he's went from quite bad to below-average.

My other main issue is I feel like he accomplishes a lot of his scoring off the rush due to his unbelievable skating and very good shot/stick-skills. The NTDP plays pond hockey. That's not how the NHL game will be. It's nowhere near as much off the rush. He can dig pucks out in the corners and get to the net in a structured offensive system, but that's probably what he is in a different system. He's a complimentary player on a line. I think he struggles to put up points when it's not off the rush. He doesn't have the hockey sense and playmaking to be a big factor in a structured offense.

Would love to be proved wrong. He's going to be an NHL'er regardless because of his skating, shot, stick-skills, strength, and some moderate grit, but I'm still so-so on him being more than middle 6.
 
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