F Joakim Kemell - Milwaukee Admirals, AHL (2022, 17th, NSH)

Ippenator

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That first clip doesn't look like the second coming of Seider that was a real touchy play not a hit and in the second clip the Dman lost an edge at the last second and his balance was off.

This isn't a knock on Kemeel as he looks really impressive this year but some of the comments of his play are over the top right now.

Like the one predicting that he might go second overall, sure it could happen but other players will have a say in that like Savoie and yes even Lambert.
Anything can happen still, I don’t think anyone has been claiming that he will for sure go as the 2nd overall. But if he can continue really this strong or maybe even develops his play from what he is doing already, then there should be realistic chances for him going even as 2nd overall.

But for Lambert to still go as 2nd, he has to absolutely change how he is playing. If he continues like he has been playing so far this season, he might not be even in the top 20. I definitely hope that he can considerably pick up his play. But honestly right now it just doesn’t look at all likely with how he is playing. Sure, I guess almost anything is still possible, so lets see.
 

ijuka

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That first clip doesn't look like the second coming of Seider that was a real touchy play not a hit and in the second clip the Dman lost an edge at the last second and his balance was off.

This isn't a knock on Kemeel as he looks really impressive this year but some of the comments of his play are over the top right now.

Like the one predicting that he might go second overall, sure it could happen but other players will have a say in that like Savoie and yes even Lambert.
Do you remember that the conditional for him going second overall was him "having a better draft season than Alexander Barkov"? And if he manages that I certainly think he would be the favorite to go second overall.
 

wetcoast

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Do you remember that the conditional for him going second overall was him "having a better draft season than Alexander Barkov"? And if he manages that I certainly think he would be the favorite to go second overall.

NHL scouts don't operate that way though they project how a player will do in the NHL and how they will grow using a variety of metrics.

It's not as simple to say that if Kemell scores at close to a PPG level that he would automatically be the second pick in the draft as other players are also competing for being chosen.
 

ijuka

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NHL scouts don't operate that way though they project how a player will do in the NHL and how they will grow using a variety of metrics.
Perhaps they should, then, because historically simply looking at nothing but pure player scoring has outperformed NHL scouts.

Also, such a thing hasn't exactly happened yet. It'd require something pretty remarkable by the others.
 

wetcoast

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Perhaps they should, then, because historically simply looking at nothing but pure player scoring has outperformed NHL scouts.

Also, such a thing hasn't exactly happened yet. It'd require something pretty remarkable by the others.

In all examples or even many of them?

Such a statement is 100% ridiculous and not even verifiable as scoring rates and situations change and also scoring at a lower level doesn't always translate to scoring in the NHL.

Furthermore scouts, rightly so, look at more than just scoring, they aren't building fantasy hockey teams but NHL ones for the pursuit of the SC.
 

Kaako Kappo

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That first clip doesn't look like the second coming of Seider that was a real touchy play not a hit and in the second clip the Dman lost an edge at the last second and his balance was off.

This isn't a knock on Kemeel as he looks really impressive this year but some of the comments of his play are over the top right now.

Like the one predicting that he might go second overall, sure it could happen but other players will have a say in that like Savoie and yes even Lambert.
Oh, I'm just happy to see a young player on the smaller side be prepared to use his body to fight for the puck. Never claimed these plays should blow you away. Just impressive stuff to me. Little things, you know ;)
 
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Kiekura

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Anything can happen still, I don’t think anyone has been claiming that he will for sure go as the 2nd overall. But if he can continue really this strong or maybe even develops his play from what he is doing already, then there should be realistic chances for him going even as 2nd overall.

Exactly. He keeps developing like this and there is good chance he might go second. And it isn't just his scoring that is impressive.
 
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Kaako Kappo

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Exactly. He keeps developing like this and there is good chance he might go second. And it isn't just his scoring that is impressive.
I think being a smaller size winger will make it really hard for him to go 2nd. Doesn't matter though, where ever he goes someone will get a nice foward.
 

Kiekura

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I think being a smaller size winger will make it really hard for him to go 2nd. Doesn't matter though, where ever he goes someone will get a nice foward.

Yeah he isn't massive but he also isn't 175cm or something. Yes he smaller than average NHL player but he is 181 atleast. Sidney Crosby is 180 (maybe bad example, because that guy is stupidly strong on his legs and amazing balance)

Jack Hughes is 180, altough he is center.

Don't really think his size will be problem if he can prove he got other assests
 

Kaako Kappo

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Yeah he isn't massive but he also isn't 175cm or something. Yes he smaller than average NHL player but he is 181 atleast. Sidney Crosby is 180 (maybe bad example, because that guy is stupidly strong on his legs and amazing balance)

Jack Hughes is 180, altough he is center.

Don't really think his size will be problem if he can prove he got other assests
I'm aware. I don't make the rules. I think 180 cm is fine. In the NHL that's somehow considered small.
 

Kiekura

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I'm aware. I don't make the rules. I think 180 cm is fine. In the NHL that's somehow considered small.

Yeah because average is like 185.

But i think in his case "He is small, but it isn't that big issue. Only small downside"
 

Zub

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Anyone believing Kemell has a good chance at no 2 OA from a few games sample size is smoking crack, yes he's been good but calm down.
 

FinlandPanther

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Anyone believing Kemell has a good chance at no 2 OA from a few games sample size is smoking crack, yes he's been good but calm down.
There are always risers that come out of nowhere. Kemmell has been a known commodity for a bit however. But yes the couple games isn’t going to do it. A full season at that pace might.
 
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Ippenator

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Yeah he isn't massive but he also isn't 175cm or something. Yes he smaller than average NHL player but he is 181 atleast. Sidney Crosby is 180 (maybe bad example, because that guy is stupidly strong on his legs and amazing balance)

Jack Hughes is 180, altough he is center.

Don't really think his size will be problem if he can prove he got other assests
Practically the same size as Kucherov and Aho also. I would say that for today’s NHL that kind of size can be even quite optimal. Especially with the type of strengths that for example Crosby, Kucherov and Aho have. To me Kemell has quite similar strengths with those players.

I’m not claiming that he becomes as good as any of them of course. But he does have his strengths in similar areas anyway. And as mentioned, he is about the same size, and most probably he even gains a bit more size. And even if he doesn’t, he will for sure gain more strength for a few years anyway.
 
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JabbaJabba

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Atleast 4-5 finnish posters here are saying this.

If things go right, I don't see why it couldn't happen. Also, I don't base this on just couple of games of this season but how Kemell did during the summer and last season. I wouldn't give best odds to it, but players rise and fall all the time in the rankings and the draft itself can be quite different from what it was expected to be a year or two before.
 
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Ippenator

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Atleast 4-5 finnish posters here are saying this.
The only thing that has been said is that if he can really play like this for the whole season, there is a pretty good chance that he goes even 2nd. But no one has really said that it’s definitely going to happen. It’s of course not likely that he can keep up with the present scoring pace, but if it would after all happen, it would be crazy to say that he couldn’t go as 2nd.

On the other hand if someone is seriously right now thinking of Lambert going as 2nd they must be having an overdose of crack then. But calm down, no one has been saying anything like Kemell will for sure be picked as 2nd overall. On the other hand would be kind of weird and even arrogant to claim that it absolutely can’t happen if he plays at this level the whole season.
 
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BKarchitect

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I'm no Finn but it's pretty absurd to say "it's absurd" to say Kemell could potentially be in the mix for the #2 spot. From afar, outside Wright, this draft looks a lot like last year in terms of maybe 8 or 10 or even more guys who are very high end but all kind of clustered who will be picked based on individual team evaluations. For example - the difference between Powers and Berniers and Eklund and Clarke last year in terms of draft choice seems like it was pretty small. Eklund may have gone #7 but it would not be surprising at all to see some teams having him top 3 or maybe even #1 on their lists. Kemell certainly looks primed to potentially have an Eklund-like rise.

The only thing we really know at this very early stage is that it is more than likely not the Wright-Lambert draft as once predicted but the Wright draft - with a bunch of high end prospects a step down from him. One of whom could be Kemell. And frankly, one of whom could still be Lambert in 9 months. But the European guys who have really improved since last year visibly that we have seen - like Kemell, Kasper, Kulich, etc (wow, all K's huh), are definitely the kind of stocks you want to own. We see it every year - the guys who are risers tend to keep rising until draft day. And the guys who see their stocks start to erode...can fall a long ways. As well it should be - an age 17/18 season in terms of development shown is a lot more important than age 15, 16, etc.
 

ijuka

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I don't quite understand why the second overall is so important to people.
Didn't see that though, just that if he played like this for the whole season he could go second overall. And that's not the same thing as saying "I think he'll go second overall".

For example, if we interacted like this: "If I won the lottery I'd be a millionaire" and your counterargument was: "You're not a millionaire, you're lying", you'd be completely missing the conditional part of the statement, which is what's happening here.

"If he plays like this for the rest of the season he can go 2nd overall" is not the same thing as "predicting him to go 2nd overall based on a couple of games", for example.

What I don't really understand is why you have a problem with that - not even disagreeing with the conditional argument, but people discussing it in the first place. Discussion is what the forum's for.

And I know, this isn't all a reply to you in specific.
 
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Stewie Griffin

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He's still behind Wright, Lambert, Savoie, Nemec, Mirosnichenko, and Slafkovsky for me at the moment. But that is expected to change once all the NA guys like McGroarty, Cooley, Chesley and Geekie start playing.

Honestly just forgot about guys like Yurov, and Jiricek. And who really knows what we have in any of the draft eligible OHL guys this year as they haven't even played an OHL game yet in their careers. This draft is deep.
 

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