F Joakim Kemell - JYP, FIN JRS (2022, 17th, NSH)

[ijuka]

Funny, I came to say I'd put him in the same tier as Lucas Raymond as a prospect. Which for me is a big compliment.

No comparison is ever perfect, but best comparable I'd use is William Nylander. Should have solidified top 5 at this point with a chance for 2 depending on needs of the team that gets the pick.

William Nylander who is a perimeter player who avoids all contact as a comparable for Kemell whose physicality is a prominent feature of his play?

 

[95snipes]

William Nylander who is a perimeter player who avoids all contact as a comparable for Kemell whose physicality is a prominent feature of his play?

I'm more getting at dynamic skating ability, release, offensive instincts, etc.

 

[ijuka]

Kemell - winger, great wrist shot, physical play, skillful hands. Overcomplicates, plays very "confident" and struggles to make the simple plays sometimes, U18 WJC included. That implies low hockey IQ, but he also makes some high hockey IQ plays so perhaps he just is immature in his thinking at this point in time.

I think something like Filip Forsberg, though not perfect, would be a more accurate NHL comparable.

 

[AB13]

William Nylander who is a perimeter player who avoids all contact as a comparable for Kemell whose physicality is a prominent feature of his play?

Nylander is the opposite of that. He is a net front prescence and scores so many goals from there. Outdated view. He has evolved a lot. Ask Leafs fans. He is probably their most physical star player.

I don’t think Nylander is a good stylistic comparison for Kemell either. Kemell is not as good of a skater or playmaker, but more of a shooter. Kemell is more like

 

[ijuka]

Nylander is the opposite of that. He is a net front prescence and scores so many goals from there. Outdated view. He has evolved a lot. Ask Leafs fans.

I don’t think Nylander is a good stylistic comparison for Kemell either. Kemell is not as good of a skater or playmaker, but more of a shooter.

Opposite of? Nylander quite literally hits the least out of every Leafs player.

 

[AB13]

Opposite of? Nylander quite literally hits the least out of every Leafs player.

Opposite of a perimiter player. Nylander gets into dirty areas and wins duels and puck battles all the time. He was close to the top of the league in net front goals last season and the season before that (haven’t checked this). Did you watch the Montreal series? While Marner and Matthews were nullifed last year, Nylander was tough and didn’t let himself get bullied.

 

[rt]

Poor man’s Kaprizov?

 

[Hale The Villain]

Kemell is nowhere near as smart of a player as Raymond.

Holtz is definitely the better comparable of the two Swedes, both in style and potential.

 

[brakeyawself]

Not as enamored with him as some others seem to be. See a lot of mocks with him going in the 5-8 range and that just seems a bit too high for me. I would rather take my chances with a guy like Savoie or Nazar. I think Savoie ends up a better winger. Nazar to me is the 3rd best center, I think he gets taken in the 5-7 range. I might prefer Lekker, Yurov as well if I were going for a winger. Just my opinion of course.

 

[Zub]

Kemell is a very very skilled winger, but lacks some hockey IQ.

 

[Steve Kournianos]

Kemell when healthy is nothing like Raymond or Holtz. He’s a nasty, physical power forward who drills dudes in open ice. He’s abrasive, angry, violent, and goes balls to the wall every shift. Shame he got hurt because I love it when high-end skill types have a nasty side, and it comes out almost all the time.

 

[Youngguns1380]

Kemell when healthy is nothing like Raymond or Holtz. He’s a nasty, physical power forward who drills dudes in open ice. He’s abrasive, angry, violent, and goes balls to the wall every shift. Shame he got hurt because I love it when high-end skill types have a nasty side, and it comes out almost all the time.

We must be looking at 2 different players no offense but he is wayyy to overvalued and ranked too high.

 

[Doug Prishpreed]

We must be looking at 2 different players no offense but he is wayyy to overvalued and ranked too high.

Are you going to give reasons or just troll?

 

[ijuka]

Another goal for Kemell, now on a redirect in front of the net.

 

[Rengorlex]

Should be in discussion for #1 in the draft. More impressive prospect than Wright.

 

[Youngguns1380]

Are you going to give reasons or just troll?

Fair question and no troll - here I what see. The first thing that I see is sub-optimal Hockey-IQ. This my definition of Hockey IQ

Hockey I.Q. (a.k.a. Hockey Sense) is a collective term that includes a player's:

1) Understanding of the Game

2) Ice Awareness

3) Pattern Recognition

4) Problem Solving

I have seen Kemell multiple times in a game skate to nowhere and limit his options and finally take a bad shot or turn it over. I have heard people talked about his scoring and yes he does score but I also call this the Max Domi affect. Max can be at times “the guy” and then stretches where he is undisciplined or you just wonder is he playing. That is how I see Kemell. Right or wrong that is my opinion.

The only reason I started to look at Kemell is because of the CBJ pick at 6. Everyone predicts the CBJ to pick him because we have a Finish GM. After looking at guys around him I valued them much better than Kemell that is the basis of overvalue and ranked too high. I would choose 8-10 other players before I would pick him. Not that he is a bad player but ranking him higher than Savoie, Nazar, Jiricek, Slafkovsky, Jurov and Nemec. I also see Lambert with higher ceiling but Lambert is flawed as well and no I would not take Lambert at 6 or 7.

 

[Peasy]

Fair question and no troll - here I what see. The first thing that I see is sub-optimal Hockey-IQ. This my definition of Hockey IQ

Hockey I.Q. (a.k.a. Hockey Sense) is a collective term that includes a player's:

1) Understanding of the Game

2) Ice Awareness

3) Pattern Recognition

4) Problem Solving

I have seen Kemell multiple times in a game skate to nowhere and limit his options and finally take a bad shot or turn it over. I have heard people talked about his scoring and yes he does score but I also call this the Max Domi affect. Max can be at times “the guy” and then stretches where he is undisciplined or you just wonder is he playing. That is how I see Kemell. Right or wrong that is my opinion.

The only reason I started to look at Kemell is because of the CBJ pick at 6. Everyone predicts the CBJ to pick him because we have a Finish GM. After looking at guys around him I valued them much better than Kemell that is the basis of overvalue and ranked too high. I would choose 8-10 other players before I would pick him. Not that he is a bad player but ranking him higher than Savoie, Nazar, Jiricek, Slafkovsky, Jurov and Nemec. I also see Lambert with higher ceiling but Lambert is flawed as well and no I would not take Lambert at 6 or 7.

Why do people still assume this after he passed on Pulj years ago lol?

 

[ijuka]

Fair question and no troll - here I what see. The first thing that I see is sub-optimal Hockey-IQ. This my definition of Hockey IQ

Hockey I.Q. (a.k.a. Hockey Sense) is a collective term that includes a player's:

1) Understanding of the Game

2) Ice Awareness

3) Pattern Recognition

4) Problem Solving

I have seen Kemell multiple times in a game skate to nowhere and limit his options and finally take a bad shot or turn it over. I have heard people talked about his scoring and yes he does score but I also call this the Max Domi affect. Max can be at times “the guy” and then stretches where he is undisciplined or you just wonder is he playing. That is how I see Kemell. Right or wrong that is my opinion.

The only reason I started to look at Kemell is because of the CBJ pick at 6. Everyone predicts the CBJ to pick him because we have a Finish GM. After looking at guys around him I valued them much better than Kemell that is the basis of overvalue and ranked too high. I would choose 8-10 other players before I would pick him. Not that he is a bad player but ranking him higher than Savoie, Nazar, Jiricek, Slafkovsky, Jurov and Nemec. I also see Lambert with higher ceiling but Lambert is flawed as well and no I would not take Lambert at 6 or 7.

Kekäläinen's known for being harsher on Finnish players, not for favoring them. Of course, he passed over Puljujärvi but he also passed over Sebastian Aho with pick #29 in 2015. As such, that logic's wrong.


On your assessment on Kemell, if you're using this tournament, I agree. He's displayed bad hockey IQ, and is a giveaway machine. Constantly takes too long to make a play with the puck, and loses pucks all the time. But he did play better in Liiga early in the season. It's a difficult thing - who do you think is the real Kemell? If I was going by this tournament alone, I'd have his ranking plummet, so it indeed is strange how people see his ranking increasing with is play in this tournament. But I guess that's because I focus on the overall game rather than just scoring.

The way I see it is, Kemell from early in the season is a #1OA or at worst a #2OA player. But his play after he returned from injury should drop his ranking. The question is, how far should he drop? What is the real Kemell? Was it a fluke or can he get back to that level after a healthy summer? The only way this tournament should INCREASE Kemell's ranking is if they weren't watching him early this season. Because he's been far worse.

 

[Zub]

Kekäläinen's known for being harsher on Finnish players, not for favoring them. Of course, he passed over Puljujärvi but he also passed over Sebastian Aho with pick #29 in 2015. As such, that logic's wrong.


On your assessment on Kemell, if you're using this tournament, I agree. He's displayed bad hockey IQ, and is a giveaway machine. Constantly takes too long to make a play with the puck, and loses pucks all the time. But he did play better in Liiga early in the season. It's a difficult thing - who do you think is the real Kemell? If I was going by this tournament alone, I'd have his ranking plummet, so it indeed is strange how people see his ranking increasing with is play in this tournament. But I guess that's because I focus on the overall game rather than just scoring.

The way I see it is, Kemell from early in the season is a #1OA or at worst a #2OA player. But his play after he returned from injury should drop his ranking. The question is, how far should he drop? What is the real Kemell? Was it a fluke or can he get back to that level after a healthy summer? The only way this tournament should INCREASE Kemell's ranking is if they weren't watching him early this season. Because he's been far worse.

Kemell also had a sh*t ton of puckluck in the beginning of the season, just happened to be on a lucky streak and that happens. Good skater and can shoot the puck hard, but lacks in hockey IQ imo.

 

[ijuka]

Kemell also had a sh*t ton of puckluck in the beginning of the season, just happened to be on a lucky streak and that happens. Cood skater and can shoot the puck hard, but lacks in hockey IQ imo.

That's true as well, but he also was playing smarter. He wasn't allerging to making the simple pass instead of dangling until he loses the puck which is what he's doing all the time at U18s, for example.

 

[ijuka]

Second goal for Kemell - even if his game overall has room for improvement, he can score.

 

[Youngguns1380]

Second goal for Kemell - even if his game overall has room for improvement, he can score.

You are correct Kemell can score so people can call it puck luck or whatever (I don’t) - he does have that scoring touch. So I do value that as one of his strengths.

In looking at him against other players in that 4-8 range. some players have less holes in their game and let’s be honest BPA vs Team needs.

 

[Steve Kournianos]

We must be looking at 2 different players no offense but he is wayyy to overvalued and ranked too high.

Cool. Let’s talk in five years.

 

[Ippenator]

Something pretty serious happened to him in that injury during his Liiga season. He has been a completely different player since that injury. He was really dominant even in Liiga before his injury. Driving the play often in his line and making really good decisions most of the time. And first of all he was skating much faster and in general a lot more intensive with his play before the injury. It’s really like night and day comparing him before his injury to how he has been after it. I honestly didn’t like his play too much even in the U18 tournament now, although his stats were pretty good.

He is just a shadow of what he was before his injury. I watched every game before his injury, and he was really exciting to watch in most of those games. He has been nothing like that after the injury, which is really a pity. Hopefully he can still straighten it out somehow with some good summer training and some resting too. But if he will not get himself back to the player he was before the injury, then he is barely a top 10 player for me in the draft. If he can regain that form though, then he would be probably the best player in his draft.

 

[AppalachianFinn13]

Something pretty serious happened to him in that injury during his Liiga season. He has been a completely different player since that injury. He was really dominant even in Liiga before his injury. Driving the play often in his line and making really good decisions most of the time. And first of all he was skating much faster and in general a lot more intensive with his play before the injury. It’s really like night and day comparing him before his injury to how he has been after it. I honestly didn’t like his play too much even in the U18 tournament now, although his stats were pretty good.

He is just a shadow of what he was before his injury. I watched every game before his injury, and he was really exciting to watch in most of those games. He has been nothing like that after the injury, which is really a pity. Hopefully he can still straighten it out somehow with some good summer training and some resting too. But if he will not get himself back to the player he was before the injury, then he is barely a top 10 player for me in the draft. If he can regain that form though, then he would be probably the best player in his draft.

What did he injure by the way, was it his shoulder?