Prospect Info: F Isak Rosen (14th Overall, 2021), Assigned to Rochester 12/10

[Chainshot]

Anybody know his ATOI or deployment this season?

13th among Leksands forwards who played at least 10 games in TOI (7:53/game).

 

[elchud]

More disappointing than points is his playing only 220 total SHL minutes all season.

He is signed for one more season. If he can't crack the top 9 it will be another wasted year.

 

[HogtownSabresfan]

I was physically present in the park in Buffalo for the draft party that year and cheered my head off for that pick because AN was exactly who I wanted us to take. Murray wasn’t the only one who was way off base about that kid, he had the talent but absolutely none of the heart, I watched a lot of coasty games from him in Rochester after we took him.

I was there too and wanted no part of him. We needed D and the #9 pick should have been our guy. I believe we took Nylander in hopes of rivalry with his brother.

 

[old kummelweck]

I was there too and wanted no part of him. We needed D and the #9 pick should have been our guy. I believe we took Nylander in hopes of rivalry with his brother.

Tim Murray had a hard-on for players that had a hockey pedigree. He also went with Sam Reinhart, that worked in his favor. But I look at Sam Bennett in the playoffs and he would have been just as good and maybe a little harder to play against.

 

[jc17]

Tim Murray had a hard-on for players that had a hockey pedigree. He also went with Sam Reinhart, that worked in his favor. But I look at Sam Bennett in the playoffs and he would have been just as good and maybe a little harder to play against.

I liked Bennett as much as reino at the draft, but I think reinhart was easily the right pick. Sure Bennett didn't have a good situation in cgy, but I don't think his recent resurgence puts him above reinhart

 

[Reddawg]

I was there too and wanted no part of him. We needed D and the #9 pick should have been our guy. I believe we took Nylander in hopes of rivalry with his brother.

Did you want no part of him because we needed D or because you saw something in the player you didn’t like? Ultimately he did deliver us a defenseman in Jokiharju, who is solid even if he isn’t Sergachev or Chychrun.

AN had a lot more going for him than name recognition and potential Leafs rivalry, it’s not his fault we rushed him to Rochester too young rather than giving him another year in junior or Europe. It’s certainly his fault he didn’t put enough effort in on or off the ice.

 

[Djp]

I was there too and wanted no part of him. We needed D and the #9 pick should have been our guy. I believe we took Nylander in hopes of rivalry with his brother.

As a prospect Nylander was a very very good. at that time in a draft you tend to go BPA.

Tim Murray had a hard-on for players that had a hockey pedigree. He also went with Sam Reinhart, that worked in his favor. But I look at Sam Bennett in the playoffs and he would have been just as good and maybe a little harder to play against.

I trust family roots in hockey does mean something in prospects if they have the raw skills. They have an understanding of the intangibles in what it takes from their upbringing.

If you have two equal players one had a father/uncle/brother who was an NHLer---i go with that one person.

 

[old kummelweck]

I trust family roots in hockey does mean something in prospects if they have the raw skills. They have an understanding of the intangibles in what it takes from their upbringing.

If you have two equal players one had a father/uncle/brother who was an NHLer---i go with that one person.

I don't agree at all. You can be sure a kid that had a parent in the NHL has had every advantage and experience has been curated along the way. At the very least it is a wash compared against equal talent. My beef is that a GM will never be criticised for picking the NHL pedigree, so it's a safe pick in a way.

And add Brandon Lemieux.

Anyway, I digress from Rosen, who I am not ready to judge at this point. That said, 2021 was an incredibly difficult draft class to evaluate due to covid shutting so many youth development leagues down. He still has plenty of time to turn it around.

 

[Djp]

I don't agree at all. You can be sure a kid that had a parent in the NHL has had every advantage and experience has been curated along the way. At the very least it is a wash compared against equal talent. My beef is that a GM will never be criticised for picking the NHL pedigree, so it's a safe pick in a way.

And add Brandon Lemieux.

Anyway, I digress from Rosen, who I am not ready to judge at this point. That said, 2021 was an incredibly difficult draft class to evaluate due to covid shutting so many youth development leagues down. He still has plenty of time to turn it around.

what I’m getting at…..that you seemed to miss, or misread my post….if you have family in the nhl it adds intangibles that are hard to teach or train. I said if they were equal based on talent. It’s very difficult to screen if a player has the heart or feels they are certain to get something so they don’t try. I think a big factor with nylander was wanting to replicate his brothers timeline. During that time he has a GM change.


iagreethe 2021 draft is going to be an historic anomaly on draft pick position and nhl success Based on where drafted. Historically the top 3-5 in the draft class that were set after after the last years drsft usually don’t move. Some shuffling can occur. im not worried about the Power pick. Those players drafted 11-50 are going to be interesting to see in a redraft don’t in 2029.

 

[K8fool]

I don't agree at all. You can be sure a kid that had a parent in the NHL has had every advantage and experience has been curated along the way. At the very least it is a wash compared against equal talent. My beef is that a GM will never be criticised for picking the NHL pedigree, so it's a safe pick in a way.

And add Brandon Lemieux.

Anyway, I digress from Rosen, who I am not ready to judge at this point. That said, 2021 was an incredibly difficult draft class to evaluate due to covid shutting so many youth development leagues down. He still has plenty of time to turn it around.

Hence the interview.. weed out the entitlement and trustafarian progeny . and find the ones who love the game innocent hungry to please humble legacy that is also given the tools how to practice.. how much time he has to commit..
a talented newby.. first in family may have a higher ceiling but no help or roadmap.. new may take more time , physically or mentally.. was eichel first in family?
I'll counter lemieux and raise a Reinhart.. is thompson new? No real certainty either way , very indidiual

 

[old kummelweck]

what I’m getting at…..that you seemed to miss, or misread my post….if you have family in the nhl it adds intangibles that are hard to teach or train. I said if they were equal based on talent. It’s very difficult to screen if a player has the heart or feels they are certain to get something so they don’t try. I think a big factor with nylander was wanting to replicate his brothers timeline. During that time he has a GM change.

That's what I don't agree with. The advantages are both negative and positive. That is why I am saying they probably wash out. Add to that no one questions a GM for drafting a hockey name, it should not be taken into consideration.

 

[HogtownSabresfan]

I liked Bennett as much as reino at the draft, but I think reinhart was easily the right pick. Sure Bennett didn't have a good situation in cgy, but I don't think his recent resurgence puts him above reinhart

I think Draisaitl was the right pick, LOL. Rarely talked about, but that's Sabres biggest miss without question. You can say everybody takes Reinhart at #2 but that's why GMs get paid to make the right big call.

 

[Chainshot]

I think Draisaitl was the right pick, LOL. Rarely talked about, but that's Sabres biggest miss without question. You can say everybody takes Reinhart at #2 but that's why GMs get paid to make the right big call.

Again, this assumes that Drai turns out to be the same player in the dysfunction that has been Sabres development in that same time. I don't see it.

 

[jmelm]

Did you want no part of him because we needed D or because you saw something in the player you didn’t like? Ultimately he did deliver us a defenseman in Jokiharju, who is solid even if he isn’t Sergachev or Chychrun.

AN had a lot more going for him than name recognition and potential Leafs rivalry, it’s not his fault we rushed him to Rochester too young rather than giving him another year in junior or Europe. It’s certainly his fault he didn’t put enough effort in on or off the ice.

I don't believe Nylander was rushed, because it's not like we put him in the NHL. He could have reasonably played in any of the OHL, AHL or Sweden without causing any hard to his development whatsoever. It would only have been the NHL that would have been a "rush".

So the issues with Nylander weren't our fault. He had top 10 skill, but he didn't (and still doesn't) have the other things you need to make it as a player.

As a prospect Nylander was a very very good. at that time in a draft you tend to go BPA.

I trust family roots in hockey does mean something in prospects if they have the raw skills. They have an understanding of the intangibles in what it takes from their upbringing.

If you have two equal players one had a father/uncle/brother who was an NHLer---i go with that one person.

I've got to push back on the idea that Nylander was the clear cut BPA. Yes, he was most certainly in that mix, but there were other players in his tier or ranked similarly that they could have considered. This was NOT the kind of situation that was the case when Filip Forsberg fell to WSH in 2012 and they walked up to the stage literally shocked that he fell. Forsberg was a clear tier above any of the other remaining guys on the board, and that was not the case with Nylander.

As far as the hockey family genes, it can go both ways: in many cases it benefits the kids of pros, but this is not universal. And you should never, ever make the assumption the the work ethic/character/experience that you would hope is there because of their parent/sibling automatically translates to that kid. You MUST evaluate kids on an individual basis and get to know everything about them. In short, it should not be a "tiebreaker" as you are suggesting.

 

[Duddy]

Again, this assumes that Drai turns out to be the same player in the dysfunction that has been Sabres development in that same time. I don't see it.

I don't see it either, the Oilers just got lucky that he developed the way he did and that they somehow managed to not screw him up.

 

[old kummelweck]

As far as the hockey family genes, it can go both ways: in many cases it benefits the kids of pros, but this is not universal. And you should never, ever make the assumption the the work ethic/character/experience that you would hope is there because of their parent/sibling automatically translates to that kid. You MUST evaluate kids on an individual basis and get to know everything about them. In short, it should not be a "tiebreaker" as you are suggesting.

You also need to develop them correctly. Look at Tage.

 

[jmelm]

You also need to develop them correctly. Look at Tage.

Obviously. Everyone who knows anything knows that drafting is only part of the equation.

But the best development staff can't do jack shit when the player himself doesn't have what it takes between the ears or in his heart.

 

[57special]

I don't believe Nylander was rushed, because it's not like we put him in the NHL. He could have reasonably played in any of the OHL, AHL or Sweden without causing any hard to his development whatsoever. It would only have been the NHL that would have been a "rush".

So the issues with Nylander weren't our fault. He had top 10 skill, but he didn't (and still doesn't) have the other things you need to make it as a player.



I've got to push back on the idea that Nylander was the clear cut BPA. Yes, he was most certainly in that mix, but there were other players in his tier or ranked similarly that they could have considered. This was NOT the kind of situation that was the case when Filip Forsberg fell to WSH in 2012 and they walked up to the stage literally shocked that he fell. Forsberg was a clear tier above any of the other remaining guys on the board, and that was not the case with Nylander.

As far as the hockey family genes, it can go both ways: in many cases it benefits the kids of pros, but this is not universal. And you should never, ever make the assumption the the work ethic/character/experience that you would hope is there because of their parent/sibling automatically translates to that kid. You MUST evaluate kids on an individual basis and get to know everything about them. In short, it should not be a "tiebreaker" as you are suggesting.

Totally agree about Alex, after watching him in the AHL. Some talent for sure, but no focus, or drive.

What I have seen a a lot in minor hockey is that kid's who come from NHL blood lines get a lot of advantages, because minor league and youth coaches love to rub elbows with former NHL'ers, and their Dad's have connections to place them in advantageous situations that normal kids don't have. Many of the kid's simply have an easier path, which IMO doesn't help them to develop. There are always exceptions, but give me a Jared Spurgeon over a "son of", any day.

 

[Dingo44]

Totally agree about Alex, after watching him in the AHL. Some talent for sure, but no focus, or drive.

What I have seen a a lot in minor hockey is that kid's who come from NHL blood lines get a lot of advantages, because minor league and youth coaches love to rub elbows with former NHL'ers, and their Dad's have connections to place them in advantageous situations that normal kids don't have. Many of the kid's simply have an easier path, which IMO doesn't help them to develop. There are always exceptions, but give me a Jared Spurgeon over a "son of", any day.

Didn't stop the Tkachuk's.

I used to watch Brady at the NTDP all the time and met the kid a couple of times. Keith was always around and even sat at the same bar in the rink when I was there. Never had the courage to talk to him though.

 

[Chainshot]

Didn't stop the Tkachuk's.

I used to watch Brady at the NTDP all the time and met the kid a couple of times. Keith was always around and even sat at the same bar in the rink when I was there. Never had the courage to talk to him though.

Reminds me of shooting the shit with Dale Hunter back before Dylan was at dev camps. It's always interesting to chat with these guys, always found being relatively respectful works.

 

[jc17]

Again, this assumes that Drai turns out to be the same player in the dysfunction that has been Sabres development in that same time. I don't see it.

I think he still becomes a very good player, but hard to say how good.

I really can't fault the Sabres for not picking him. It's a marginal gain at best, and its unreasonable to expect even the best gm to nail every pick to get the actual BPA every pick.

I didn't love reinhart as a prospect but he was such a safe pick, even at 2oa. He was basically a guaranteed top 6 guy, which is a lot less common than I think people realize

 

[jmelm]

Totally agree about Alex, after watching him in the AHL. Some talent for sure, but no focus, or drive.

What I have seen a a lot in minor hockey is that kid's who come from NHL blood lines get a lot of advantages, because minor league and youth coaches love to rub elbows with former NHL'ers, and their Dad's have connections to place them in advantageous situations that normal kids don't have. Many of the kid's simply have an easier path, which IMO doesn't help them to develop. There are always exceptions, but give me a Jared Spurgeon over a "son of", any day.

Yup, exactly. And those kids can also develop a sense of entitlement that the opportunities should just be handed to them. It can work to their advantage, or to their disadvantage. That's why you gotta get inside the head (and family) of every prospect when you're doing your scouting, evaluation & rankings.

 

[Zach716]

Didn't stop the Tkachuk's.

I used to watch Brady at the NTDP all the time and met the kid a couple of times. Keith was always around and even sat at the same bar in the rink when I was there. Never had the courage to talk to him though.

Didn't stop Sammy either. Or hundreds of other guys.

Michael Nylander is a known asshole that has always had to be involved with his kids in every matter, even if it should've been out of bounds. This isn't inclusive to all ex NHLers.

 

[old kummelweck]

He was basically a guaranteed top 6 guy, which is a lot less common than I think people realize

I know. You'd think #2 in 2015 would have produced one.

 

[SnuggaRUDE]

Reminds me of shooting the shit with Dale Hunter back before Dylan was at dev camps. It's always interesting to chat with these guys, always found being relatively respectful works.

Dale Hunter, i'm not sure that's the sort of person I'd want to voluntarily interact with. I'm also pretty sure I'd never go play Skee-ball with Sean Avery.