F Dalibor Dvorsky (2023, 10th, STL)

[Albatros]

Anybody who watched him play in the Allsvenskan wouldn't take him in the top10. He hit the wall and Detroit is scouting Sweden pretty heavily. Dvorsky is an interesting project but based on his poor last season no longer a bluechip top prospect like for example Danielson.

I remember Aho playing well in the Liiga in his draft season while Dvorsky was a turnovermachine with very underwhelming scoring and a 5th (or so, I forgot the details) worst +/- leaguewide in a 2nd tier league. He was also a much better skater already. Of course, Aho was a 2nd round pick.

Also, Aho is a Center while Dvorsky will most likely remain a winger.

I'm sure the Swedish scouts employed by the Blues weren't sent to watch their 1st round pick... And yes, Dvorský's skating is still some way off from where it needs to be before he can excel in the NHL. But given that he has everything else from puck moving and playmaking to faceoffs to physical and ultimately also defensive play as it matures, it's hard to see how he wouldn't play center going forward. Of course, his goal scoring ability would make him an effective winger as well. He's about the most complete player you can hope to get at #10 and skating technique is by no means the most difficult issue to fix.

 

[Hinterland]

He's a much better prospect than Danielson, who was only a few days away from being a 2022 draft pick.

Had Dvorsky played in the WHL he would have scored 100+ points. Allsvenskan isn't an easy league for 17 year olds, and he didn't really play in an offensive role.

Still, his production there as a U18 player puts him in pretty good company....
View attachment 726338

There's a reason he lit up the U18 tournament.

I don't doubt that but that's the point exactly. Dvorsky is very good vs fellow kids but his problem last season was that there aren't enough kids in the Allsvenskan. Sadly for him, there won't be many in the NHL either and the few that are there tend to be pretty good. He'll have to change his game. Can't bring your junior game to a man's league. Well I guess you could but you'd need better hands and especially better skating than Dvorsky does. Otherwise it leads to nothing but turnovers as we witnessed last season.

Not a big deal...many prospects don't even play vs men pre draft. Having said that, bluechip top prospects are expected to be at least solid vs men at the highest level in Europe. If you look at the likes of Carlsson or Reinbacher, they did exactly that. Even the recently mentioned Aho did (and was still a 2nd round pick). The Allsvenskan is the best 2nd tier league in Europe but it remains a 2nd tier league, far below Europe's top leagues. So Dvorsky being completely lost there hurt his draft stock considerably and I was surprised he still went top10. Probably a bit of a reach by STL but nothing wrong with shooting for upside I guess. Upside is definitely there but there's also bust potential and after last season he's more of a project than a bluechip prospect. Which is why he fell even though not as far down as I thought.

 

[Hinterland]

You are so cute. trying to justify wings drafting future 3rd liner over far superior player taken immediately after they whiffed. Dvorsky looks like he will be better center than anyone wings have had since Datsyuk.

I think Danielson is a middle 6 Center at least. Personally, I see him as more of a 2C. Dvorsky I don't think is gonna play Center in the NHL. Played Wing last season and he's really more of a shooter/goal scorer than anything else. Not particularly creative or good against the puck and a poor skater. Even if he could play Center in the NHL that would probably be bad asset management. If he hits his potential, you want him on your top line scoring goals, not playing C somewhere down the lineup.

 

[Hinterland]

I'm sure the Swedish scouts employed by the Blues weren't sent to watch their 1st round pick... And yes, Dvorský's skating is still some way off from where it needs to be before he can excel in the NHL. But given that he has everything else from puck moving and playmaking to faceoffs to physical and ultimately also defensive play as it matures, it's hard to see how he wouldn't play center going forward. Of course, his goal scoring ability would make him an effective winger as well. He's about the most complete player you can hope to get at #10 and skating technique is by no means the most difficult issue to fix.

If you look at European scouting and Sweden in particular, Detroit and St.Louis are in different worlds. On the one hand you have Håkan Andersson who gets a couple of steals outta Sweden almost on a yearly basis and has countless other finds out of Europe. On the other side you have St.Louis that, without looking it up so correct me if I'm wrong, hasn't found a top player out of Europe since 2015 when I think they picked Husso and Barbashev. Since then, Mikkola and Toropchenko are the only ones that kinda met expectations. The big picks like Bokk (drafted out of Sweden) or Kostin were busts.

If I have to pick a scouting department to trust regarding a European prospect, Detroit is my top choice and St.Louis just about my last. Don't get me wrong. I like the Blues and I'll admit I used to like Kostin and Bokk but given their history I'm not sure them scouting Dvorsky means much for his future.

 

[Fixed to Ruin]

If you look at European scouting and Sweden in particular, Detroit and St.Louis are in different worlds. On the one hand you have Håkon Andersson who gets a couple of steals outta Sweden almost on a yearly basis and has countless other finds out of Europe. On the other side you have St.Louis that, without looking it up so correct me if I'm wrong, hasn't found a top player out of Europe since 2015 when I think they picked Husso and Barbashev. Since then, Mikkola and Toropchenko are the only ones that kinda met expectations. The big picks like Bokk (drafted out of Sweden) or Kostin were busts.

If I have to pick a scouting department to trust regarding a European prospect, Detroit is my top choice and St.Louis just about my last. Don't get me wrong. I like the Blues and I'll admit I used to like Kostin and Bokk but given their history I'm not sure them scouting Dvorsky means much for his future.

Further to your point about the Blues, Barbashev played 3 seasons in the QMJHL. He would have been scouted predominantly in North America rather than in Europe.

 

[Christien]

You are so cute. trying to justify wings drafting future 3rd liner over far superior player taken immediately after they whiffed. Dvorsky looks like he will be better center than anyone wings have had since Datsyuk.

Yikes. We'll see how your post ages, but it's pretty crazy for you to call Danielson a future 3rd liner.

 

[AyeBah]

If you look at European scouting and Sweden in particular, Detroit and St.Louis are in different worlds. On the one hand you have Håkon Andersson who gets a couple of steals outta Sweden almost on a yearly basis and has countless other finds out of Europe. On the other side you have St.Louis that, without looking it up so correct me if I'm wrong, hasn't found a top player out of Europe since 2015 when I think they picked Husso and Barbashev. Since then, Mikkola and Toropchenko are the only ones that kinda met expectations. The big picks like Bokk (drafted out of Sweden) or Kostin were busts.

If I have to pick a scouting department to trust regarding a European prospect, Detroit is my top choice and St.Louis just about my last. Don't get me wrong. I like the Blues and I'll admit I used to like Kostin and Bokk but given their history I'm not sure them scouting Dvorsky means much for his future.

Well Detroit took Zadina, Rasmussen, Cossa, Veleno, Svechnikov out of the CHL...and well they're pretty much all whiffs to a various degree. Remind me Danielson was drafted out of the WHL right? So why should we trust the wings CHL scouting if you made that same dumb point about the Blues' Euro scouting?

 

[Christien]

Well Detroit took Zadina, Rasmussen, Cossa, Veleno, Svechnikov out of the CHL...and well they're pretty much all whiffs to a various degree. Remind me Danielson was drafted out of the WHL right? So why should we trust the wings CHL scouting if you made that same dumb point about the Blues' Euro scouting?

Zadina, Rasmussen, Veleno, and Svechnikov were all draft picks made by the old regime here in Detroit. Now you're seeing a totally different scouting staff that picked Danielson.

 

[AyeBah]

Zadina, Rasmussen, Veleno, and Svechnikov were all draft picks made by the old regime here in Detroit. Now you're seeing a totally different scouting staff that picked Danielson.

And Bill Armstrong was the DOS for the Blues for all those picks in the 2010s that he referenced

 

[Thallis]

You are so cute. trying to justify wings drafting future 3rd liner over far superior player taken immediately after they whiffed. Dvorsky looks like he will be better center than anyone wings have had since Datsyuk.

While all of this might end up being correct and they may be wrong, don't confuse Hinterland for a coping wings fan. He's been very consistent in nay saying on Dvorsky

 

[xyzed]

While all of this might end up being correct and they may be wrong, don't confuse Hinterland for a coping wings fan. He's been very consistent in nay saying on Dvorsky

yeah, very try hard. Almost obsessed I would say

 

[Fixed to Ruin]

I looked it up. Last time the Blues had a top 10 pick was in 2008 when they took Alex Pietrangelo 4th.

Most of their picks in the first round (if they had a 1st round pick) was in the 20-30 range. So its fair to say the Blues haven't had the opportunity to draft a talented player like Dvorsky in quite some time.

 

[DatDude44]

Hot but accurate take: Dvorskys a very good skater, just not a straigh ahead speed burner like a Fantilli or Kyrou. His stride mechanics, elusive east-west ability and strength on his skates are all well above average if not close to the elite tier. He’s still physically a kid with a ton of runway and physical growth remaining to be had.

Super excited about this kid in a blue note 2-3 years from now. Hopefully we can fix the D-core by then lol

 

[WhiskeyYerTheDevils]

I don't doubt that but that's the point exactly. Dvorsky is very good vs fellow kids but his problem last season was that there aren't enough kids in the Allsvenskan. Sadly for him, there won't be many in the NHL either and the few that are there tend to be pretty good. He'll have to change his game. Can't bring your junior game to a man's league. Well I guess you could but you'd need better hands and especially better skating than Dvorsky does. Otherwise it leads to nothing but turnovers as we witnessed last season.

Not a big deal...many prospects don't even play vs men pre draft. Having said that, bluechip top prospects are expected to be at least solid vs men at the highest level in Europe. If you look at the likes of Carlsson or Reinbacher, they did exactly that. Even the recently mentioned Aho did (and was still a 2nd round pick). The Allsvenskan is the best 2nd tier league in Europe but it remains a 2nd tier league, far below Europe's top leagues. So Dvorsky being completely lost there hurt his draft stock considerably and I was surprised he still went top10. Probably a bit of a reach by STL but nothing wrong with shooting for upside I guess. Upside is definitely there but there's also bust potential and after last season he's more of a project than a bluechip prospect. Which is why he fell even though not as far down as I thought.

The fact that he's dominating against his peer group is a really good sign. He put up 10g and 21p in 10gp in the Swedish U20 junior league. That's the highest PPG by a 17 year old in the history of that league. His NHLe vs his peers is much higher than Danielson's in the WHL, and he's 9 months younger.

Obviously a guy who still needs to work on his skating is going to struggle against men, but again his Allsvenskan production is right in line with other future NHL stars, and with what he's shown at the U20 and U18 level, I think the chances are good he becomes a very good NHL player.

 

[Bye Bye Blueston]

Yikes. We'll see how your post ages, but it's pretty crazy for you to call Danielson a future 3rd liner.

He was 25th on my final predraft ranking (which I have posted elsewhere on this site). Dvorsky was 5th. Perhaps my crystal ball is inaccurate, but I saw huge gap between these two.

 

[rumrokh]

He'll have to change his game. Can't bring your junior game to a man's league.

Isn't this true of the vast majority of prospects? If anything, it's often the guys who play a "man's game" against their peers to excel who then fall flat when they can't do the same thing against men. We see this happen with toolsy players draft after draft.

The only difference with whipping the ass of your peers at 17 and then being mediocre against older pros is that the majority of your peers still haven't been tested against older pros.

 

[DatDude44]

Isn't this true of the vast majority of prospects? If anything, it's often the guys who play a "man's game" against their peers to excel who then fall flat when they can't do the same thing against men. We see this happen with toolsy players draft after draft.

The only difference between whipping the ass of your peers at 17 and then being mediocre against older pros is that the majority of your peers still haven't been tested against older pros.

The funny part too is Dvorsky's actual style of play, doesn't need to change much at all. He just needs to physically mature. He's so good at shielding the puck, not forcing plays that aren't there or are 50/50. Extremely smart player all over the ice and has the work ethic to boot, calm and poised with the puck at all times and has a phenomenal ability to make plays in tight areas under pressure, he's fantastic with working towards or establishing body position both with and without the puck. All things that you worry about from a junior type scorer translating to pro are the opposite of how Dvorsky plays stylistically. His game should translate extremely well. The kid just needs to become a man physically. It's quite humorous that this guy has no idea what he's talking about and just hates the player for whatever reason, maybe scared he ends up better than the guy his team took a spot ahead? I don't know, but it's wild lol.

 

[DatDude44]

He was 25th on my final predraft ranking (which I have posted elsewhere on this site). Dvorsky was 5th. Perhaps my crystal ball is inaccurate, but I saw huge gap between these two.

Indulge yourself in this video my man.

 

[salamandra]

The funny part too is Dvorsky's actual style of play, doesn't need to change much at all. He just needs to physically mature. He's so good at shielding the puck, not forcing plays that aren't there or are 50/50. Extremely smart player all over the ice and has the work ethic to boot, calm and poised with the puck at all times and has a phenomenal ability to make plays in tight areas under pressure, he's fantastic with working towards or establishing body position both with and without the puck. All things that you worry about from a junior type scorer translating to pro are the opposite of how Dvorsky plays stylistically. His game should translate extremely well. The kid just needs to become a man physically. It's quite humorous that this guy has no idea what he's talking about and just hates the player for whatever reason, maybe scared he ends up better than the guy his team took a spot ahead? I don't know, but it's wild lol.

Absolutely agree. Hinterland never seen any Dvorsky's match in the alsvenskan. Dvorsky is pure talent. One of the greatest slovak talents, same lavel like Gaborik, Hossa, Demitra, Palffy (and Reway - if I evaluate only skill and hockey sens). He has a huge grudge against him ... It is incomprehensible.

Indulge yourself in this video my man.

Great video. Maybe some of Dvorsky's haters will watch it...

 

[WhiskeyYerTheDevils]

He was 25th on my final predraft ranking (which I have posted elsewhere on this site). Dvorsky was 5th. Perhaps my crystal ball is inaccurate, but I saw huge gap between these two.

Same. I had Dvorsky at 6 and Danielson 24th. Danielson has nice size and some decent skills, but is way too much of a permiter player for his size, and his production was pretty mediocre considering he was 18 for the entire WHL season.

 

[Hinterland]

Same. I had Dvorsky at 6 and Danielson 24th. Danielson has nice size and some decent skills, but is way too much of a permiter player for his size, and his production was pretty mediocre considering he was 18 for the entire WHL season.

I'm no WHL expert but did you ever watch them play or even just looked at their roster? There's nobody for Danielson to play with. They have a solid goalie, a few solid defenders but almost zero talent upfront and even their best defenders don't craeate much the other way.

 

[WhiskeyYerTheDevils]

I'm no WHL expert but did you ever watch them play or even just looked at their roster? There's nobody for Danielson to play with. They have a solid goalie, a few solid defenders but almost zero talent upfront and even their best defenders don't craeate much the other way.

Yes I watched a ton of WHL games this year. He really didn't drive offense at 5v5 like you would expect a "blue chip" prospect. Less than half of his points came at even strength.

Here are Brandon's top producers in terms of even strength scoring. He was 2nd in ES points per game, far back from Hyland. Brandon sucked but the fact that he failed to stand out on a bad team isn't a great sign:

 

[Albatros]

If you look at European scouting and Sweden in particular, Detroit and St.Louis are in different worlds. On the one hand you have Håkan Andersson who gets a couple of steals outta Sweden almost on a yearly basis and has countless other finds out of Europe. On the other side you have St.Louis that, without looking it up so correct me if I'm wrong, hasn't found a top player out of Europe since 2015 when I think they picked Husso and Barbashev. Since then, Mikkola and Toropchenko are the only ones that kinda met expectations. The big picks like Bokk (drafted out of Sweden) or Kostin were busts.

If I have to pick a scouting department to trust regarding a European prospect, Detroit is my top choice and St.Louis just about my last. Don't get me wrong. I like the Blues and I'll admit I used to like Kostin and Bokk but given their history I'm not sure them scouting Dvorsky means much for his future.

Besides their junior scout Stefan Elvenes they hired a second scout in Sweden (Tommy Sjödin) and also a mentor for those that have been drafted (Alex Steen), definitely the Blues are quite well staffed there at the moment.

 

[SlafySZN]

This kid’s gonna be a stud

 

[Blueswin]

He was 25th on my final predraft ranking (which I have posted elsewhere on this site). Dvorsky was 5th. Perhaps my crystal ball is inaccurate, but I saw huge gap between these two.

I was so happy the Wings took Danielson & he didn't go to the Blues.