Masch78
Registered User
- Oct 5, 2017
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It its a total personal preference because I love the way he plays and I'd put him in a #2 overall consideration as well. I think he is that good.
F Dalibor Dvorsky (2023, 10th, STL)
- Thread starter Outofbodyinhungary
- Start date
Antiillafire
Registered User
I think AZ might be the best destination for him of the top 10 teams. Cooley - Dvorsky - Geekie could be a really good 3 way punch down the middle in the future
rt
Clean Hits on Substack
Hayton and McBain were both really, really good for AZ down the stretch too.
Antiillafire
Registered User
I agree, I just think out of the teams 6-10 that they are the best fit for him in terms of development.
Looking st the other teams there, when was the last time Washington developed a first round forward and took them to the next level? Detroit already has centre depth in their prospect pool. I guess the next best argument could be made for the Blues
RedHawkDown
still trying to trust the yzerplan
We have no centres other than Kasper. Dvorsky would be a perfect fit.
alko
Registered User
What is good on him, he could play on 2 WCH U 20. I dont think, he will be so good, that he will be in NHL in 2 season. But he will do a lot to our national team.
Off-topic here but I wonder how the Coyotes situation will develop and how it affects their prospects. Cooley is staying for another year of college and I could totally see a guy like Dvorsky staying in Sweden for an extra year or two if the situation in AZ doesn’t improve drastically.
Of course, Dvorsky will need a couple years anyway and the situation could resolve by then. Just curious to follow what happens there.
I have a hard time seeing us pass him up at #5. 2 way centers with size and offensive upside are valued very highly, plus there's his history/chemistry with Slaf too..
%-wise i'd say he's very likely to end up being a 50-60 point 2 way 2C with potential to hit 1C, that potential is what'll make him go higher than expected. Safe floor with 1C upside usually gets picked very high in drafts.
%-wise i'd say he's very likely to end up being a 50-60 point 2 way 2C with potential to hit 1C, that potential is what'll make him go higher than expected. Safe floor with 1C upside usually gets picked very high in drafts.
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Antiillafire
Registered User
My far off precaution is Chicago trades for Washington’s pick at 8, if Michkov is gone already and take Dvorsky as the 2C behind Bedard
Guadana
Registered User
The Hawks have magic beans that allow them to trade the 19th overall pick for the 8th just because they want to.
Bjornar Moxnes
Registered User
I don't think #19 and the four Hawks 2nd rounders would get them 8th overall sorry to say.
TheUnusedCrayon
Registered User
- Apr 12, 2018
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Alright people, I need help. I've scouted 6 games watching this guy like a hawk. What the hell do you people see in him that makes him a top 10 prospect? Is my sample size just so incredibly unlucky that I've yet to see something he excels at?
He's a floater, he's not the best positionally and often times stands behind defenders when he should be working to get open, he's not great along the walls, doesn't anticipate plays, is very average defensively, his IQ is average...
The guy goes just off to the side of the slot and just kinda waits for things to happen offensively. Sometimes it does and he lucks out for an easy goal, most often it doesn't.
I even looked at highlight packages to try to find out if I'm missing something. People say he dominated the U18s and then you watch every point he put up and they're all just kind of fortunate plays for him to be there or be one of the assist guys.
WHAT IN THE BLUE HELL AM I MISSING?
(I will admit he does have talent, he just doesn't know how to use it and I have no idea what you guys see in him that makes him dynamic. He's like a more boring Brayden Yager to me.)
He's a floater, he's not the best positionally and often times stands behind defenders when he should be working to get open, he's not great along the walls, doesn't anticipate plays, is very average defensively, his IQ is average...
The guy goes just off to the side of the slot and just kinda waits for things to happen offensively. Sometimes it does and he lucks out for an easy goal, most often it doesn't.
I even looked at highlight packages to try to find out if I'm missing something. People say he dominated the U18s and then you watch every point he put up and they're all just kind of fortunate plays for him to be there or be one of the assist guys.
WHAT IN THE BLUE HELL AM I MISSING?
(I will admit he does have talent, he just doesn't know how to use it and I have no idea what you guys see in him that makes him dynamic. He's like a more boring Brayden Yager to me.)
- Sep 29, 2016
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Not a bad player. He's got a very good shot and decent puck handling skills. I think it's fair to say though that his game hasn't translated well to pro hockey. He hit the wall. Hard. So I don't think you missed anything. I saw the same. His play was even worse than his stats and I'd much rather draft Honzek top10 than Dvorsky who should be more of an option in the back half of the 1st round.
Playing vs kids he was able to dominate thanks to a physical edge. He was able to establish position in the slot and if he can do that and win battles then he's very effective. He was also able to shield pucks and power through other kids. That doesn't work in the Allsvenskan and it led to turnovers.
Dvorsky is a project who has to reinvent himself and his game bur there's a good chance he'll be able to do that. I don't see him as a bluechip prospect anymore though after his transition to pro hockey kinda failed. I think he lost ground there. Honzek played a much better season vs better competition a year ago in Slovakia. Honzek is a much better skater as well despite being bigger.
Playing vs kids he was able to dominate thanks to a physical edge. He was able to establish position in the slot and if he can do that and win battles then he's very effective. He was also able to shield pucks and power through other kids. That doesn't work in the Allsvenskan and it led to turnovers.
Dvorsky is a project who has to reinvent himself and his game bur there's a good chance he'll be able to do that. I don't see him as a bluechip prospect anymore though after his transition to pro hockey kinda failed. I think he lost ground there. Honzek played a much better season vs better competition a year ago in Slovakia. Honzek is a much better skater as well despite being bigger.
Castle8130
Registered User
- May 9, 2017
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He's a fairly dominant center against players his age. Anytime he was playing in a u18 or the j20 league, he boasted tremendous offensive numbers. He isn't a playmaker and isn't an offensive genius, but he is extremely competitive player. He never gives up on the play and plays the center position the right way (defensively responsible). He shows high-end possession metrics and is a really good goal scorer.
There are some serious concerns about his skating and I tend to agree with those warts in his game. He has below average speed and I could easily see him be another Strome or Kotkaniemi.
From everything I have picked up so far, a lot of teams would happily select him in the top 5-10 range. There are some that believe his skating concerns push him outside the top 10-12 on their lists (or atleast one person).
Another Note: He plays center against men and is 6'1" with a later birthday.
- Sep 29, 2016
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He was -19 despite getting sheltered. He was defensively responsible vs kids, not in the Allsvenskan. Which is a difference. He also scored four goals vs random German kids but just six goals in the Allsvenskan. That's the difference. Dvorsky has been very good vs kids but not vs men. Because the way he plays vs kids doesn't work vs men. That's his problem. He loves to hold onto pucks which works very well vs kids but he doesn't have the strength or skating to do it vs men and it led to turnovers nonstop.
Also, the late birthday is overrated I think. As I mentioned, fellow Slovak Honzek played a better pro season than Dvorsky a year earlier. Versus better competition of course. 6'1 might be solid but Honzek is 6'4. I'd take Honzek over Dvorsky every day of the week and twice on sunday. Bigger player with much better skating. More physical, better against the puck. Similar shot. Dvorsky is a righty and more effective/comfortable in the slot. That's it. Other than that, Honzek is the much better player today and he was better a year ago than Dvorksy is now. Dvorksy just lost a lot of ground and I could see the failed transition to pro hockey push him back a few spots. I think the forward group at this year's draft is too good for this not to happen. To get drafted 5-10 in a strong draft your transition to pro hockey has to be smoother. Filip Forsberg played a much better Allsvenskan season and still didn't get drafted top10...in a weaker draft. Guys with serious red flags like Dvorsky, Benson, Wood, Moore and co. I wouldn't draft anywhere near top10 with better forwards available. But you never know, only takes one team...
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95snipes
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- Dec 11, 2019
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Dvorsky is a lefty. He was also clearly better than Honzek last season at '21 Hlinka Gretzky and '22 U18 so the bolded can't be true unless Dvorsky got worse this year (he didn't). And is Slovakia pro league better than Alsvensken? I doubt that.
Hlinka Gretzky - Dvorsky 12 points, Honzek 0. I watched those games too so don't tell me I'm stat watching.
Slovakia U18 2021-2022 - Roster, Stats & more
Slovakia U18 - Hlinka Gretzky Cup - hockey team page with roster, stats, transactions at eliteprospects.com
www.eliteprospects.com
I do have concerns about Dvorsky's skating. My only hesitation with Dvorsky top 10. Honzek might be more projectable to the NHL but there is no debate over who has been the better player to date.
I'm with you on Wood and Moore though.
Antiillafire
Registered User
How many full games of Honzek and Dvorsky have you seen in the past 2 seasons to form such strong opinions? Especially with Honzek, Vancouver was pretty awful to watch this year and I think the Slovak league is not really entertaining at all for obvious reasons
But particularly with Allsvenskan. For many of them Dvorsky was playing very limited third line and fourth line minutes and sparingly up the lineup when AIK had injuries. His linemates on the third line and deeper in the lineup are also quite low in terms of plus minus, AIK wasn’t a team loaded with talent. Dvorsky’s most common line mate was Oskar Magnusson, another young player drafted in 2020 who himself has a pretty weak statistical profile and is small. Maxims Semjenovs was often the C for that line and he had like 6 points in 50 games and again is a small forward who isn’t exactly strong on the puck or in transition (more of a Hockeyettan level player imo). Dvorsky rarely got Pp time and in the playoffs was the 13th forward with basically no shifts. Did he underperform compared to expectations? Without a doubt, that cannot be denied. He himself admits this.
His J20 play was outstanding, he had the best advanced stats of any forward in the entire league both offensively and defensively. AIK’s team had considerably less talent as well, compared to the other top teams. Go watch his AIK junior league playoffs (if they are even accessible this far in to the future) against Otto Stenberg’s team where he was clearly the best player on the ice.
As far as his U18 performance goes, I think it was pretty great. On a team with a way less talent than Czechia, Sweden, Finland, USA and Canada, the newly promoted Slovaks (likely only 2-3 players drafted total from that team including Dvorsky which would be an all time low for a top 4 finish) were still able to play for a medal. That was largely due to Dvorsky’s play. He factored in on like 2/3 of the goals scored for Slovakia who was missing its second best forward. Against Finland whenever his line was on the ice they were able to generate offense and limit the Finnish top line.
Going back even further to the WJC, I think he was 50/50 in the tournament but the game against USA is where he showed his potential. He took on the matchup against Logan Cooley and played extremely well. He played over 23 minutes and scored a goal, finishing as a +1. Cooley finished the game with 1 assist and a -2.
If you want to argue that Dvorsky is more of a top 15-25 guy, I am here for it and can see points being made. But to say that he shouldn’t be taken close to the first round (as the other user argues) is pretty ludicrous in my opinion.
NHL teams clearly like him. Maybe they are wrong though, it’s not uncommon at all
Executive: “He’s an awesome player. High-end skill and scoring ability, gives a strong effort every night. I think once the consensus top four names outside Michkov go, he’s a very serious consideration for Montreal, Arizona, Philadelphia.”
Scout: “Prior to the U18 tournament, we were talking about trading up for this guy, like we’re unloading to get him. Since then his stock has taken off. For me, he’s battling (Will) Smith in the 4-5-6 range. If he gets to Vancouver and they don’t take him, that’s criminal.”
Scout: “From 10-12, you’re hoping maybe Benson somehow slips, or maybe Colby Barlow. I think he’s close to being NHL ready. Dalibor Dvorsky was outstanding at the U18s for Slovakia — I think he’s a slam dunk if he hasn’t already been snapped up.”
The draft as everyone agrees comes down to development anyways, look at Jordan Kyrou for example, well under PPG in the OHL in his DY and I remember users here and on social media with some pretty wild takes about him as a prospect and he’s become one of the best from his class. Hilarious to look back and see where he fell too.
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TheUnusedCrayon
Registered User
- Apr 12, 2018
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Thank you for your assessment! I didn't understand what the perspective was but I guess I kinda see it. I just don't think he's strong enough in those areas but that's subjective to an extent as well. Thanks for the insight, my dude!
Steve Kournianos
@thedraftanalyst
I don't want to be rude but this is why you cant scout players with "their highlights compilation"
Dvorsky had a puck on his stick almost more minutes than all the rest of U18 team Slovakia combined. He was part of like 80-90% goals team Slovakia scored in U18. He was winning board battles and was great defensively.
Yes he is scoring a lot of "ugly" goals from a close distance but you cant blame the kid for having a great instinct in front the net.
- Sep 29, 2016
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Of course. Thanks for the correction. I meant ability to play right wing as a lefty. Anything else wouldn't make sense when his best asset is the shot. Not sure why I was confused.Dvorsky is a lefty. He was also clearly better than Honzek last season at '21 Hlinka Gretzky and '22 U18 so the bolded can't be true unless Dvorsky got worse this year (he didn't). And is Slovakia pro league better than Alsvensken? I doubt that.
Hlinka Gretzky - Dvorsky 12 points, Honzek 0. I watched those games too so don't tell me I'm stat watching.
Slovakia U18 2021-2022 - Roster, Stats & more
Slovakia U18 - Hlinka Gretzky Cup - hockey team page with roster, stats, transactions at eliteprospects.com
I do have concerns about Dvorsky's skating. My only hesitation with Dvorsky top 10. Honzek might be more projectable to the NHL but there is no debate over who has been the better player to date.
I'm with you on Wood and Moore though.
- Sep 29, 2016
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I don't watch these leagues a lot so of course my viewings are limited. I have to rely on limited viewings, sources and resources. Allsvenskan is the best 2nd tier in Europe but the Slovakian league is better than the Allsvenskan. I'd argue it's also more entertaining. Swedish hockey is typically very good but also more defensive minded and tactically heavy so probably not what most people would describe as entertaining. I understand that's an individual thing though.How many full games of Honzek and Dvorsky have you seen in the past 2 seasons to form such strong opinions? Especially with Honzek, Vancouver was pretty awful to watch this year and I think the Slovak league is not really entertaining at all for obvious reasons
But particularly with Allsvenskan. For many of them Dvorsky was playing very limited third line and fourth line minutes and sparingly up the lineup when AIK had injuries. His linemates on the third line and deeper in the lineup are also quite low in terms of plus minus, AIK wasn’t a team loaded with talent. Dvorsky’s most common line mate was Oskar Magnusson, another young player drafted in 2020 who himself has a pretty weak statistical profile and is small. Maxims Semjenovs was often the C for that line and he had like 6 points in 50 games and again is a small forward who isn’t exactly strong on the puck or in transition (more of a Hockeyettan level player imo). Dvorsky rarely got Pp time and in the playoffs was the 13th forward with basically no shifts. Did he underperform compared to expectations? Without a doubt, that cannot be denied. He himself admits this.
His J20 play was outstanding, he had the best advanced stats of any forward in the entire league both offensively and defensively. AIK’s team had considerably less talent as well, compared to the other top teams. Go watch his AIK junior league playoffs (if they are even accessible this far in to the future) against Otto Stenberg’s team where he was clearly the best player on the ice.
As far as his U18 performance goes, I think it was pretty great. On a team with a way less talent than Czechia, Sweden, Finland, USA and Canada, the newly promoted Slovaks (likely only 2-3 players drafted total from that team including Dvorsky which would be an all time low for a top 4 finish) were still able to play for a medal. That was largely due to Dvorsky’s play. He factored in on like 2/3 of the goals scored for Slovakia who was missing its second best forward. Against Finland whenever his line was on the ice they were able to generate offense and limit the Finnish top line.
Going back even further to the WJC, I think he was 50/50 in the tournament but the game against USA is where he showed his potential. He took on the matchup against Logan Cooley and played extremely well. He played over 23 minutes and scored a goal, finishing as a +1. Cooley finished the game with 1 assist and a -2.
If you want to argue that Dvorsky is more of a top 15-25 guy, I am here for it and can see points being made. But to say that he shouldn’t be taken close to the first round (as the other user argues) is pretty ludicrous in my opinion.
NHL teams clearly like him. Maybe they are wrong though, it’s not uncommon at all
Executive: “He’s an awesome player. High-end skill and scoring ability, gives a strong effort every night. I think once the consensus top four names outside Michkov go, he’s a very serious consideration for Montreal, Arizona, Philadelphia.”
Scout: “Prior to the U18 tournament, we were talking about trading up for this guy, like we’re unloading to get him. Since then his stock has taken off. For me, he’s battling (Will) Smith in the 4-5-6 range. If he gets to Vancouver and they don’t take him, that’s criminal.”
Scout: “From 10-12, you’re hoping maybe Benson somehow slips, or maybe Colby Barlow. I think he’s close to being NHL ready. Dalibor Dvorsky was outstanding at the U18s for Slovakia — I think he’s a slam dunk if he hasn’t already been snapped up.”
The draft as everyone agrees comes down to development anyways, look at Jordan Kyrou for example, well under PPG in the OHL in his DY and I remember users here and on social media with some pretty wild takes about him as a prospect and he’s become one of the best from his class. Hilarious to look back and see where he fell too.
I know Dvorsky has always done well internationally for Slovakia while Honzek mostly didn't and I know that there are future stars at these tournaments as well. Still, the average competition isn't very good and you get to face many kids who are never even gonna play at the highest level in Europe. Playing kids is also fundamentally different from playing men and the sample size is small in those tournaments compared to league play.
Many say Honzek has limited upside because he doesn't drive play much neither does Dvorsky. Well he did it a lot vs kids but not at all in the Allsvenskan. With Honzek I think it's more of a style thing, maybe also confidence. I don't think he actually lacks the ability to hang onto pucks or the vision to create chances...he just doesn't do hope plays...something Dvorsky does all the time. Honzek is 6'4 and while he skates very well already I think he still has to grow into his body. Once he's filled out I think his offense is gonna come around as well.
Regarding Dvorsky I never said that he shouldn't get drafted in the 1st round. I just think that the draft is deep on forwards and I don't really agree that more mature players like Danielson or Honzek necessarily have limited upside just because they're better than others right now.
Also, as a rule of thumb, players who struggle to adjust to a 2nd tier pro league hardly ever go top10. Especially in deep drafts. Doesn't mean they're not gonna be stars because many of the top prospects, for example the north american ones, don't even turn pro ahead of the draft. Still, it usually does cost spots if you hit the wall in a 2nd tier league even if it's a very good one like the Allsvenskan.
- Sep 29, 2016
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And that's what I described in an earlier post. That's why he hit the wall in the Allsvenskan and produced so many turnovers. What he does vs kids doesn't work vs pros. Well, it could but Dvorsky doesn't have skating or strength to do it as we speak. He has to drastically improve in those areas or reinvent his game. I'm confident he can do it but in my view it also makes him more of a project than a bluechip top10 pick.
