F Adam Fantilli - Univ. of Michigan, NCAA (2023 Draft)

[bert]

There was never any remote chance that anyone other than Bedard went 1st, that thought is just plain ignorant

Hilarious to read some of these takes.

I will say this I finally saw the hype for Fantilli. He showed an elite skillset and had a great game. When he is engaged physically he can really make an impact. Reminded me a little of Batherson. Who is similar in that when he gets his legs chugging and big body flying around his skill elevates.

Also encouraging that he played better as the pace picked up.

I would let the season play out before we call him the man. 42% of his points were against Lindenwood and Lake Superior State who combine for an 8-28 record, they are two of the worst teams in college hockey.

Hes still a great player. But hes no Eichel.

Eichel.... I'd day he definitely has a chance to be on that level. Eichel has left alot to be desired up to this point. Great talent but ya gotta actually do it.

 

[bigdog16]

Hilarious to read some of these takes.

I will say this I finally saw the hype for Fantilli. He showed an elite skillset and had a great game. When he is engaged physically he can really make an impact. Reminded me a little of Batherson. Who is similar in that when he gets his legs chugging and big body flying around his skill elevates.

Also encouraging that he played better as the pace picked up.


Eichel.... I'd day he definitely has a chance to be on that level. Eichel has left alot to be desired up to this point. Great talent but ya gotta actually do it.

I dont, Eichel was over a PPG at 21 years old on a historically bad Sabres team. I would br surprised if Fantilli turns into an over PPG player ever in his career

 

[95snipes]

From watching him at the Under 18s, a handful of games at Michigan, and throughout this tournament, I'm not sure if he processes the game well enough to be that year in/year out 85+ point center that your drafting him to be if you pick him second overall.

I don't think his overall offensive toolkit/arsenal is elite, but he will be an elite skater in the NHL, that much is obvious. He has the skillset to be the kind of guy that is more effective in tight games such as the playoffs than some random regular season game in November.

Throughout the tournament he has turned the puck over a lot and has tunnel vision at times, but his two way effort has been noticeable. If I was advising him, I'd be saying play more like Toews, less like McDavid. Fantilli has the tools to be a great player, but there are some concerns for me.

 

[bert]

I dont, Eichel was over a PPG at 21 years old on a historically bad Sabres team. I would br surprised if Fantilli turns into an over PPG player ever in his career

What's he done since? Massive dissapointment especially for his skillset.

 

[TheBeastCoast]

I definitely think he should take another year before turning pro. But I am fully expecting whatever team drafts him to want to get him into pro hockey right away for better or worse.

 

[Lavar Ball]

What's he done since? Massive dissapointment especially for his skillset.

Been an elite 1C when he is on the ice?

 

[bert]

Been an elite 1C when he is on the ice?

Being on the ice is important. Not going to derail the thread here but given he is 27 this year and hasnt played a playoff game yet with his hype its been pretty dissapointing.

 

[vildurson]

I thought last game from Fantilli against USA was actually his best one so far in the tournament. (I have not seen total beat down games from earlier tho) Even though his line mates were not that strong.

 

[Boner Champ]

I get that people want to be conservative - you see it all the time with Bedard and ppl finding every reason to hold him back from the McDavid/Crosby tier of prospects (when he literally can't do anything further to cement his case).

With Fantilli he's absolutely on an Eichel/Hughes/MacK tier. What he's done in college is as impressive, and he's been much better at the WJC than people give him credit, playing mainly in the bottom 6 and with little PP time on the 2nd unit.

He's absolutely got franchise potential and is the clear 2a/2b guy with Michkov as far as I'm concerned. I'd lean Michkov for talent, but the situation with Russia is only getting worse... Fantilli will make a team extremely happy they got him top 3.

 

[Just Linda]

I get that people want to be conservative - you see it all the time with Bedard and ppl finding every reason to hold him back from the McDavid/Crosby tier of prospects (when he literally can't do anything further to cement his case).

With Fantilli he's absolutely on an Eichel/Hughes/MacK tier. What he's done in college is as impressive, and he's been much better at the WJC than people give him credit, playing mainly in the bottom 6 and with little PP time on the 2nd unit.

He's absolutely got franchise potential and is the clear 2a/2b guy with Michkov as far as I'm concerned. I'd lean Michkov for talent, but the situation with Russia is only getting worse... Fantilli will make a team extremely happy they got him top 3.

The thing with Michkov is that he hasn't exactly been blowing the doors off this year either. Its still early in the year, he's coming off injury, and he's played quite a bit in the KHL as a 17 year old but he never did answer the question thats been asked of him.

The concern has always been on whether Michkov could produce at 5-on-5 or whether he would be more of a PP producer in the NHL. So far this season, he's largely produced on the PP. Between all levels this year, he's scored 5 times at even strength and the rest of his points are all on the PP or OT.

His season hasn't been good yet, him falling a bit is as much to do with his season as it is with the other factors. Id argue that Fantilli and Carlsson passing him wouldve happened regardless of the Russian cirumstances though Michkov can blow his way back into the 2oa conversation if he starts putting the pucks in.

I won't rate Michkov yet, I want to see more of him this year before I finalize my thoughts on him, but I'm not seeing any reason yet this year (though Ive seen plenty of it in the past) why Id rate him above Fantilli, Carlsson, or anywhere near Bedard.

 

[LeProspector]

This guy is a bigger, more physical Taylor Hall.

 

[bigdog16]

What's he done since? Massive dissapointment especially for his skillset.

A debitating back/neck injury didnt help. Not to mention hes ranked 14th in PPG among active players while playing a majority of his career on a horrendus team.

 

[Groo]

How does this guy compare to Cozens?

 

[Mathieukferland]

How does this guy compare to Cozens?

Better hands worse IQ

 

[nbwingsfan]

My stance comes from watching both players over the course of multiple years.

I also stated that Bedard would have a great tournament and Fantilli would likely play a bottom 6 role.

You don't judge a prospect's projection based on one tournament, that's how you get people projecting Drouin over MacKinnon.

My stance on neither guy has changed, I know who both guys are and what they can do. The flaws I'm worried about for both are still there.

I'm not sure what kind of gotcha you think this is but this comes across as you watched Bedard for the first time and realized he's a gifted offensive player, that's something we've all known for a long, long time.

Fantilli started in a top 6 role and wasn’t good enough.

It’s mind boggling you can see the two of them on the ice together and still come to the conclusion you’d take Fantilli.

It wasn’t even close. Like you can’t measure the distance between the two of them after that tournament.

And that’s not a knock on Fantilli, Bedard is just in that generational level of prospect.

Bedard had more than a great tournament… it was an all time tournament.

 

[Just Linda]

Fantilli started in a top 6 role and wasn’t good enough.

It’s mind boggling you can see the two of them on the ice together and still come to the conclusion you’d take Fantilli.

It wasn’t even close. Like you can’t measure the distance between the two of them after that tournament.

And that’s not a knock on Fantilli, Bedard is just in that generational level of prospect.

Bedard had more than a great tournament… it was an all time tournament.

You can say that about plenty of other comparables at tournaments. Drouin isn't the better player because he was significantly better than MacKinnon when they played on the same squad.

Bedard is better right now, that's not why you draft a player. Bedard likely will be a better player than them through their entire careers too, that's never what I claimed.

In 10 years, who'll have impacted their teams in a more beneficial ways. I'd argue Fantilli for a number of reasons, those haven't changed because Bedard had a great tournament. There was never a doubt of Bedard's offensive skills, I still have lots of questions about a lot of other areas in his game.

 

[nbwingsfan]

You can say that about plenty of other comparables at tournaments. Drouin isn't the better player because he was significantly better than MacKinnon when they played on the same squad.

Bedard is better right now, that's not why you draft a player. Bedard likely will be a better player than them through their entire careers too, that's never what I claimed.

In 10 years, who'll have impacted their teams in a more beneficial ways. I'd argue Fantilli for a number of reasons, those haven't changed because Bedard had a great tournament. There was never a doubt of Bedard's offensive skills, I still have lots of questions about a lot of other areas in his game.

You do know that Drouin and Mackinnon played on the same junior team too right? And that everyone who ever saw them together knew that Mackinnon was better?

The difference between Drouins play and Bedards play at the WJC can’t be measured. Drouin was an ok top 6 guy while Bedard set pretty much every Canadian record. It’s not a comparable at all.

Its truly fascinating to see people (actually pretty much just you) say Fantilli will be better than Bedard after watching them together.

 

[Zilo44]

You do know that Drouin and Mackinnon played on the same junior team too right? And that everyone who ever saw them together knew that Mackinnon was better?

The difference between Drouins play and Bedards play at the WJC can’t be measured. Drouin was an ok top 6 guy while Bedard set pretty much every Canadian record. It’s not a comparable at all.

Its truly fascinating to see people (actually pretty much just you) say Fantilli will be better than Bedard after watching them together.

You rarely see guys like Drouin, i.e a guy so immensely talented that he can destroy junior hockey without working that hard. He just did not have the drive to succeed IMO

 

[ChesterNimitz]

You can say that about plenty of other comparables at tournaments. Drouin isn't the better player because he was significantly better than MacKinnon when they played on the same squad.

Bedard is better right now, that's not why you draft a player. Bedard likely will be a better player than them through their entire careers too, that's never what I claimed.

In 10 years, who'll have impacted their teams in a more beneficial ways. I'd argue Fantilli for a number of reasons, those haven't changed because Bedard had a great tournament. There was never a doubt of Bedard's offensive skills, I still have lots of questions about a lot of other areas in his game.

While Bedard was ‘generational’ against lesser opposition ( Germany/Austria) his performance against stronger competition ( the U.S. and the Czechs) was considerably less impressive. In the NHL he will be playing against superior competition, players that are larger, stronger and as fast and in some cases faster than him, every game. Will he be able to create the time and space to employ those unmatchable hand skills?

If you could marry Fantilli’s speed and size with Bedard’s skill and vision, you could comfortably call that player the ‘next one’. But without those elements of size and speed, I question any efforts to anoint Bedard as generational.

 

[GlassesJacketShirt]

You do know that Drouin and Mackinnon played on the same junior team too right? And that everyone who ever saw them together knew that Mackinnon was better?

The difference between Drouins play and Bedards play at the WJC can’t be measured. Drouin was an ok top 6 guy while Bedard set pretty much every Canadian record. It’s not a comparable at all.

Its truly fascinating to see people (actually pretty much just you) say Fantilli will be better than Bedard after watching them together.

I think people forget a key ingredient in MacKinnon's WJC lack of production: he played minimal minutes and mostly with plugs who were more interested in hurting opposing players than scoring goals, and this was hardly a case where he was given a prime opportunity from the get go either.

The 2013 WJC was the most disappointing in Canadian history, and that was almost entirely due to an imbecile HC who saw MacKinnon as a 13th forward. At that point, they should have just invited another goon to fill in that spot if that was all they saw in him.

 

[Just Linda]

While Bedard was ‘generational’ against lesser opposition ( Germany/Austria) his performance against stronger competition ( the U.S. and the Czechs) was considerably less impressive. In the NHL he will be playing against superior competition, players that are larger, stronger and as fast and in some cases faster than him, every game. Will he be able to create the time and space to employ those unmatchable hand skills?

If you could marry Fantilli’s speed and size with Bedard’s skill and vision, you could comfortably call that player the ‘next one’. But without those elements of size and speed, I question any efforts to anoint Bedard as generational.

That's where a lot of my assessment of Bedard comes from. I have Blades season tickets, I watch him live when he comes through and plays against one of the best junior teams in Canada. I imagine if my base watching experience was watching him play weak teams, the flaws might not be so apparent. I watch him a lot outside of that but yeah.

Bedard still looked great on the medal rounds. He looked great for the what he is good at, he even looked improved on the defensive side a bit (he stole a puck on the back check!).

I don't see how anyone could look at his WJC performance and see him a future centre, to me it's not even close. Take away defensive responsibility, forgive his cheating habits, have someone else go to the corners and teach him some aggressiveness and Bedard is going to be fine. You'll have a difference maker. Put Bedard in a position where he has to do it all like he does in Regina and you'll have a Regina like situation even when he has better teammates. He can run an offense like few others, he can't run a team (though he really needs to become aggressive like I said, he needs to work on taking over games even when the puck isn't on his stick and work on his off puck elusiveness).

You do know that Drouin and Mackinnon played on the same junior team too right? And that everyone who ever saw them together knew that Mackinnon was better?

The difference between Drouins play and Bedards play at the WJC can’t be measured. Drouin was an ok top 6 guy while Bedard set pretty much every Canadian record. It’s not a comparable at all.

Its truly fascinating to see people (actually pretty much just you) say Fantilli will be better than Bedard after watching them together.

Yes I know that. The point is though that you can't judge prospects based only on a single tournament. Though in the last few games, they both looked great.

 

[Mathieukferland]

While Bedard was ‘generational’ against lesser opposition ( Germany/Austria) his performance against stronger competition ( the U.S. and the Czechs) was considerably less impressive. In the NHL he will be playing against superior competition, players that are larger, stronger and as fast and in some cases faster than him, every game. Will he be able to create the time and space to employ those unmatchable hand skills?

If you could marry Fantilli’s speed and size with Bedard’s skill and vision, you could comfortably call that player the ‘next one’. But without those elements of size and speed, I question any efforts to anoint Bedard as generational.

Did you watch the games?? The first game against czech, Fantilli was invisible and Bédard was held to one point despite setting up about 5 tap ins that were missed. Bédard and Fantilli were both good against the USA. Again in the final Bédard set up tap ins and did a decent job against Jiricek, Fantilli did relatively little

 

[nbwingsfan]

That's where a lot of my assessment of Bedard comes from. I have Blades season tickets, I watch him live when he comes through and plays against one of the best junior teams in Canada. I imagine if my base watching experience was watching him play weak teams, the flaws might not be so apparent. I watch him a lot outside of that but yeah.

Bedard still looked great on the medal rounds. He looked great for the what he is good at, he even looked improved on the defensive side a bit (he stole a puck on the back check!).

I don't see how anyone could look at his WJC performance and see him a future centre, to me it's not even close. Take away defensive responsibility, forgive his cheating habits, have someone else go to the corners and teach him some aggressiveness and Bedard is going to be fine. You'll have a difference maker. Put Bedard in a position where he has to do it all like he does in Regina and you'll have a Regina like situation even when he has better teammates. He can run an offense like few others, he can't run a team (though he really needs to become aggressive like I said, he needs to work on taking over games even when the puck isn't on his stick and work on his off puck elusiveness).


Yes I know that. The point is though that you can't judge prospects based only on a single tournament. Though in the last few games, they both looked great.

It’s not just judging what he did in this tournament, even though it was historic. That’s also ignoring Fantilli has en entire extra development year to Bedard. Fantilli didn’t make the team until he was 18. Bedard was playing a key role at 16 years old.

What Bedard is/has been doing in junior also blows anything Fantilli has/is doing as well.

 

[Just Linda]

It’s not just judging what he did in this tournament, even though it was historic. That’s also ignoring Fantilli has en entire extra development year to Bedard. Fantilli didn’t make the team until he was 18. Bedard was playing a key role at 16 years old.

What Bedard is/has been doing in junior also blows anything Fantilli has/is doing as well.

Fantilli's production as a freshman is the third best in the past 40 years behind only Eichel and Kariya. His production alone (only one factor to consider) would project him above a point per game centre. Let's not pretend like he's not accomplishing a lot right now.

The age thing always shows itself to be overblown. They've had the same development time, kids with later birthdates aren't suddenly developing better. There's been a ton of research already that shows this.

Age is one thing to consider but it's not the end of the argument, it's one of the many things to be considered. They are in the same playing year.

 

[nbwingsfan]

Fantilli's production as a freshman is the third best in the past 40 years behind only Eichel and Kariya. His production alone (only one factor to consider) would project him above a point per game centre. Let's not pretend like he's not accomplishing a lot right now.

The age thing always shows itself to be overblown. They've had the same development time, kids with later birthdates aren't suddenly developing better. There's been a ton of research already that shows this.

Age is one thing to consider but it's not the end of the argument, it's one of the many things to be considered. They are in the same playing year.

They haven’t had the same development time, Fantilli has had an extra year.

Why was Bedard playing at 16 and Fantilli first made it at 18?

Also yes Fantillis numbers as a whole look great, until you break down where all the points came from, and he’s only around PPG against teams that aren’t complete garbage.