Extended Matthews vs Stutzle going forward?

[Golden_Jet]

I get it, I was just addressing their specific points about "how far has scoring (Matthews) gotten the Leafs" and the "Stutzle plus a million dollar player would be better than AM", to show that specific persons argument is not all that strong.

I've got no love for the Sens but Stutzle is a hell of a player and I wish things had gone a bit better for the Sens because they look like they're almost a playoff team and I would love to see a Leafs/Sens playoff matchup again someday (granted maybe that's just nostalgia for a time when the Leafs could actually win a series).

You think Matthew’s is getting 9.35 million

 

[WetcoastOrca]

You can always tell when a guy is on a bit of a roll without knowing anything about the NHL.

Just wait for the "Player X" vs Matthews thread.

Yes. Like the multiple McDavid vs Matthews threads we had last year.
Obviously when a player is 28th in scoring people are going to have questions about what is going on. Other top players have managed to produce much better through injuries.

 

[The Devilish Buffoon]

Matthews has a year left at $11.6M, then let’s assume he signs for 7-8 years in the area of $12M to $13M

Stutzle has 8 years left at $8.35M

Under those parameters I probably take Matthews but think he will sign for more than that.

 

[Golden_Jet]

What is Matthew’s extension and term.

 

[Mark Stones Spleen]

Matthews has publicly stated he’s playing with an injured wrist. Matthews doesn’t play on the team running away with power plays. Matthews is better defensively.

Stutzle has more PP points because of opportunity though.

You do live in a world of rainbows of butterflies. You’re arguing Stutzle is better even when he’s losing the second poll in a row to Matthews including contracts.

Stutzle has 2 extra PP points, that's not what is making the difference.

Selke frontrunner Matthews plays 3 seconds of PK time a game, Stutzle plays 1:14. Matthews actually plays more 5on5 plus PP minutes combined per game than TS, yet his PPG is worse despite more opportunity lol.

 

[Divine]

Stutzle has 2 extra PP points, that's not what is making the difference.

Selke frontrunner Matthews plays 3 seconds of PK time a game, Stutzle plays 1:14. Matthews actually plays more 5on5 plus PP minutes combined per game than TS, yet his PPG is worse despite more opportunity lol.

Yes, he’s not having his best season due to injury.

You know Matthews won the Hart, Ted Lindsay and Rocket last season right? Or did you just start watching hockey this season?

Matthews stats last season blow anything Stutzle has ever done to date out of the water, the same with his stats the year before that. Even Crosby had down seasons.

Matthews put up 40 goals as a rookie when Stutzle was struggling to put up 30 points. In fact this is the first time in Stutzle’s career he’s passed Matthews rookie season.. which was Matthews worst season.

And Matthews doesn’t have to be a Selke winner to be better than Stutzle defensively. Stutzle has been a minus player every year of his career, including this one.

 

[Golden_Jet]

Yes, he’s not having his best season due to injury.

You know Matthews won the Hart, Ted Lindsay and Rocket last season right? Or did you just start watching hockey this season?

Matthews stats last season blow anything Stutzle has ever done to date out of the water, the same with his stats the year before that. Even Crosby had down seasons.

Matthews put up 40 goals as a rookie when Stutzle was struggling to put up 30 points. In fact this is the first time in Stutzle’s career he’s passed Matthews rookie season.. which was Matthews worst season.

And Matthews doesn’t have to be a Selke winner to be better than Stutzle defensively. Stutzle has been a minus player every year of his career, including this one.

Spoken to you by someone who obviously has a great grasp on +/-, ….not.

 

[Divine]

Spoken to you by someone who obviously has a great grasp on +/-, ….not.

It's okay, the poll speaks for itself.

People would rather have Matthews making 3M+ more than Stutzle.

+/- is a useful stat, it accounts for a lot. Why does it matter how many points you put up when the other teams scores more with you on the ice?

It's not the only stat, but players like Claude Giroux who have been plus players have no problem continuing being plus players even places at 35 years old in Ottawa.

 

[WetcoastOrca]

Yes, he’s not having his best season due to injury.

You know Matthews won the Hart, Ted Lindsay and Rocket last season right? Or did you just start watching hockey this season?

Matthews stats last season blow anything Stutzle has ever done to date out of the water, the same with his stats the year before that. Even Crosby had down seasons.

Matthews put up 40 goals as a rookie when Stutzle was struggling to put up 30 points. In fact this is the first time in Stutzle’s career he’s passed Matthews rookie season.. which was Matthews worst season.

And Matthews doesn’t have to be a Selke winner to be better than Stutzle defensively. Stutzle has been a minus player every year of his career, including this one.

Crosby never had a season as poor as Matthews current one.
Keep generational players like Crosby out of the discussion.

 

[swiftwin]

It's okay, the poll speaks for itself.

People would rather have Matthews making 3M+ more than Stutzle.

+/- is a useful stat, it accounts for a lot. Why does it matter how many points you put up when the other teams scores more with you on the ice?

It's not the only stat, but players like Claude Giroux who have been plus players have no problem continuing being plus players even places at 35 years old in Ottawa.

Yes, the poll does speak for itself. Only 56% of people as of this post.

 

[Divine]

Yes, the poll does speak for itself. Only 56% of people as of this post.

That's when you include Matthews with a handicap (bigger contract) in a hard cap league. These people are arguing Stutzle is better without taking in cap considerations.

Crosby never had a season as poor as Matthews current one.
Keep generational players like Crosby out of the discussion.

Are we talking about the same Crosby?

Crosby in 2014-2015 & 2015-2016's season are both worse than Matthews current season.

 

[WetcoastOrca]

That's when you include Matthews with a handicap (bigger contract) in a hard cap league. These people are arguing Stutzle is better without taking in cap considerations.



Are we talking about the same Crosby?

Crosby in 2014-2015 & 2015-2016's season are both worse than Matthews current season.

Lol. In 2014-2015 and 2015-2016 Crosby was third in the league in points. Matthews is in the late 20’s in scoring.
Swing and a miss!

 

[Golden_Jet]

Matthews has a year left at $11.6M, then let’s assume he signs for 7-8 years in the area of $12M to $13M

Stutzle has 8 years left at $8.35M

You’re a little shy on Matthew’s ask . And high on term.
Matthew’s will want 13+, he’s about the money.

 

[Divine]

Lol. In 2015-2016 Crosby was third in the league in points. Matthews is in the late 20’s in scoring.
Swing and a miss!

And that's not a down year for him?

Your argument is also unfair because Matthews has missed games due to injury. Of course on a down year when you're not playing all your games you're going to be lower in the league in scoring.

 

[Golden_Jet]

That's when you include Matthews with a handicap (bigger contract) in a hard cap league. These people are arguing Stutzle is better without taking in cap considerations.



Are we talking about the same Crosby?

Crosby in 2014-2015 & 2015-2016's season are both worse than Matthews current season.

Matthew’s has more than 85 points, news to me. Wasn’t he third in the league also.
Any other swing and misses.

Edit: yep Crosby was third both those years.

 

[WetcoastOrca]

And that's not a down year for him?

Finishing third in points and 3 points out of the Art Ross is a lot better than being 27th.
Crosby was third in points in the league in both of his ‘down’ years.

 

[leafsfan5]

Okay? And Stutzle having the best 20yr (D+3) old season of anyone not named McDavid, Crosby or Ovechkin is also pretty good evidence that he's going to be pretty freaking good going forward.

Both players are playing at a similar level this season (although a small edge to Stutzle). Both players have evidence that they will be even better in upcoming seasons (with an edge to Matthews). But, does Matthews' evidence justify the ~$5M contract difference for the next 8 years?

He's not though lol. This sudden spike in scoring is the reason his totals are high. Off the top of my head the following players were better

Stamkos in D+3 was 5th in points, 2nd in goals (7th in PPG)
Draisaitl in D+3 was 7th in points, 10th in PPG
Malkin in D+3 was 1st in points, 2nd in PPG

His season is actually somewhat comparable to Matthews D+3. Stutzle is 14th in PPG while Matthews was 20th in PPG

 

[Divine]

Finishing third in points and 3 points out of the Art Ross is a lot better than being 27th.
Crosby was third in points in the league in both of his ‘down’ years.

Yeah but that's only because we're twisted the argument to look at point totals and ignored the fact one player was injured and missed 7 games already... whereas Crosby missed 2. Obviously the player that missed more games will be lower in the total scoring race.

But it's fine, we don't have to use Crosby.

Ovechkin also had a down season in 2010-2011, and 2011-2012. It happens.

 

[WetcoastOrca]

Yeah but that's only because we're looking at point totals and ignoring the fact one player was injured and missed 7 games already... whereas Crosby missed 2.

Crosby played through lots of injuries too.
The generational guys just keep on producing at a high level.
Like I said keep generational players out of this.

 

[Divine]

Crosby played through lots of injuries too.
Like I said keep generational players out of this.

Do you consider Ovechkin generational? His 2011-2012 season was pretty bad.

What about Malkin? His 2010-2011 season was bad.

Also, I'm not talking about playing through injuries, Matthews did that every game this season. I mean he literally was not in the lineup because he injured his knee, or are you holding that against him too?

If you want to to twist the argument by ignoring games played, where did Crosby finish in scoring in 2011-2012? Not games played, total scoring.. but now you'll say but he missed games.

 

[Golden_Jet]

Do you consider Ovechkin generational? His 2011-2012 season was pretty bad.

What about Malkin? His 2010-2011 season was bad.

Also, I'm not talking about playing through injuries, Matthews did that every game this season. I mean he literally was not in the lineup because he injured his knee, or are you holding that against him too?

If you want to to twist the argument by ignoring games played, where did Crosby finish in scoring in 2011-2012? Not games played, total scoring.. but now you'll say but he missed games.

How many goalposts are you going to move lol.

 

[Divine]

How many goalposts are you going to move lol.

It's you guys moving the goalposts.

You're saying it doesn't matter if Matthews missed games, we are only going to look at where he finishes in overall scoring regardless of how many games he missed.

When I point out Crosby finishes low in seasons he missed games, then it's become an issue.

But yeah, Matthews is more similar to Ovechkin than Crosby anyway.

Matthews had a down year (possibly due to injury), just like Ovechkin and Malkin have. Happier?

 

[WetcoastOrca]

Do you consider Ovechkin generational? His 2011-2012 season was pretty bad.

What about Malkin? His 2010-2011 season was bad.

Also, I'm not talking about playing through injuries, Matthews did that every game this season. I mean he literally was not in the lineup because he injured his knee, or are you holding that against him too?

If you want to to twist the argument by ignoring games played, where did Crosby finish in scoring in 2011-2012? Not games played, total scoring.. but now you'll say but he missed games.

You’re moving the goalposts so much I can’t keep up. At least you’ve backed off your weak Crosby argument. Lol.
You’ve moved on from posting misleading statements about Crosby once it was pointed out he finished third both of those seasons.
What place is Matthews is in this year?

 

[Divine]

You’re moving the goalposts so much I can’t keep up. At least you’ve backed off your weak Crosby argument. Lol.

You're right.

Matthews has a down season just like Ovechkin and Malkin.

It happens. Tim Stutzle is no Matthews, Ovechkin or Malkin though.

No reason to bring Crosby into this, no one thinks Stutzle is anyway near Crosby anyway.

 

[Sidney the Kidney]

Personally I wouldn't be very happy if we traded Matthews for Stutzle because I believe he will likely re-sign,
I dont think Id be happy with anything for Matthews to be 100% honest

Really? McDavid straight up for Matthews and you'd be upset about that?