News Article: Expansion

[StefanW]

Like I said, Toronto is not a hockey town... it's a Leafs town.

And the fact that those are two different things shows how well the Laffs have done over the past decade and a half.

 

[tony d]

34 teams is way to much, no other sports league has 34 (Of the major 4). If you ask me expansion should go to Seattle and Quebec City and that be it.

 

[Benjamin]

Aren't leaf fans the biggest flip floppers and band wagoners? They may be hockey dumb but they love hockey.

 

[Mr Invidious]

Aren't leaf fans the biggest flip floppers and band wagoners? They may be hockey dumb but they love hockey.

How are Leafs fans bandwagoners?

They haven't won a thing since 1967.

 

[Caeldan]

Aren't leaf fans the biggest flip floppers and band wagoners? They may be hockey dumb but they love hockey.

Not really. Once the Leafs are out of the playoffs, they're off paying attention to the Blue Jays or TFC.

 

[DrunkUncleDenis]

I disagree about Toronto, the leafs games are just too expensive and corporately controlled. By allowing fans to go to more live games in the GTA that has tremendous market expansion potential.

There is 5 million people in the greater GTA they will sell out every game. Sell outs are healthy for the league any way you swing it. It also might make the leafs organization more accountable which could potentially re engage certain fans that are tired of the losing or have lost touch with the team because they have been so bad for so long.

I could see lots of people gravitating toward a Toronto #2 team, it being the rebellious little brother of the corporate big wig team. Slightly lower ticket costs, more of a brash crowd without all the corporate seats. It'd be like having a Hamilton team without it actually being in Hamilton. If they build an arena in Mississauga or similar, it would give tons more people easier access to the games. In general I'm not a fan of suburban stadiums, but this might be the best way to do it.

Browsing the leaf board, it is obviously a mixed reaction, may saying they may support a second team but "The leafs will always be #1", but it would be interesting to see how many fans would jump ship.

A second Toronto team has big potential, imo.

 

[Caeldan]

I could see lots of people gravitating toward a Toronto #2 team, it being the rebellious little brother of the corporate big wig team. Slightly lower ticket costs, more of a brash crowd without all the corporate seats. It'd be like having a Hamilton team without it actually being in Hamilton. If they build an arena in Mississauga or similar, it would give tons more people easier access to the games. In general I'm not a fan of suburban stadiums, but this might be the best way to do it.

Browsing the leaf board, it is obviously a mixed reaction, may saying they may support a second team but "The leafs will always be #1", but it would be interesting to see how many fans would jump ship.

A second Toronto team has big potential, imo.

I don't see how people are coming to the 'less corporate' conclusion.
Have you looked at how many companies have their Canadian headquarters in Markham?

And it'd be nothing like having a Hamilton team, since Hamilton at least is accessible to the rest of SW Ontario. Markham is accessible to the GTA, and the GTA alone.

 

[danielpalfredsson]

Ottawa would potentially lose Anderson. But in the past, drafting teams have accepted compensation in order to not draft specific players left unprotected.

They could potentially lose Greening, Condra, Boro, Gryba, or Wiercioch depending on who they chose to protect.

I think if a second Toronto team could manage to be competitive, or draft a player with a lot of star power early on, they could steal a big chunk of the Leafs fan base. As much as it's fun to talk trash about Leaf's fans, they've had to put up with an awful product for a very long time.

Can you imagine if the Senators only made the playoffs once in an entire decade? The team would no longer exist, and if it did, this board would be an insane read.

There'll always be band wagon hoppers, but I could see some very dedicated fans jumping to the new Toronto team as a way to stick it to the Leafs for taking their fandom for granted.

 

[Quo]

And, really, that's where the big money is. A punk rock, economical ******* child of a second Toronto franchise sounds like a wonderful idea but they would have to cater to the corporate set sooner or later if they want to stay viable.

 

[Qward]

I really believe that a massive chunk of people living in Toronto will instantly cheer for any team that is not the Leafs.

 

[Caeldan]

Just as an FYI... for anyone coming from the 401 to get to the 404 via the 407... current tolls without a transponder is 17.67 worst case (ie driving into the game between 4-6pm on a weekday), and 13.98 best case (weekend/holiday drive) per direction.

So roughly $30-35 in tolls roundtrip to avoid downtown Toronto 401+DVP traffic (winter traffic at that).

 

[DrunkUncleDenis]

I don't see how people are coming to the 'less corporate' conclusion.
Have you looked at how many companies have their Canadian headquarters in Markham?

And it'd be nothing like having a Hamilton team, since Hamilton at least is accessible to the rest of SW Ontario. Markham is accessible to the GTA, and the GTA alone.

I'm saying the vibe of the arena would be like it was in Hamilton. The blue collar type thing. I'll concede that eventually they would have to give in to the big companies to some extent down the road.

Re: Markham, that's why I suggested Mississauga. It's far enough from downtown TO and isn't ultra hard to get around. I've spent a lot of time there and transportation isn't completely terrible. There are 700,000 people in Mississauga alone, granted I'm sure they're not all hockey fans. However, there are likely more hockey fans there than in Markham or adjacent Brampton.

 

[Caeldan]

I'm saying the vibe of the arena would be like it was in Hamilton. The blue collar type thing. I'll concede that eventually they would have to give in to the big companies to some extent down the road.

Re: Markham, that's why I suggested Mississauga. It's far enough from downtown TO and isn't ultra hard to get around. I've spent a lot of time there and transportation isn't completely terrible. There are 700,000 people in Mississauga alone, granted I'm sure they're not all hockey fans. However, there are likely more hockey fans there than in Markham or adjacent Brampton.

What about Markham suggests blue collar? They very actively promote themselves as a high tech and life-sciences community, and probably the most diverse community in terms of ethnicities in the GTA.

I agree of Toronto suburbs that Mississauga makes the most sense, though my (slightly biased) opinion has always been if you want an "Ontario" team - put it just off the 401 near Cambridge. Sure the municipality itself is small - but corporate wise - there's some decent names in the Waterloo region. And you've got easy driving access (plus might finally motivate the province to properly upgrade Hwy 6 which is long overdue).

 

[CanadianGuest]

I posted this in the "Around the League" thread - proposed re-alignment of teams into new conferences & divisions... but I guess it makes sense to put here, too.

I'll try to name the divisions, the easy ones first;
North West
South West
North East
South East
Central

Now the harder ones;
Not quite East
Almost East
Most East

Seriously though, I'm not a fan of this particular map since I believe the league will create two new teams and move two teams.

 

[YouGotAStuGoing]

I'll try to name the divisions, the easy ones first;
North West
South West
North East
South East
Central

Now the harder ones;
Not quite East
Almost East
Most East

The one with Pittsburgh and Washington could be the Middle East.

 

[DrunkUncleDenis]

What about Markham suggests blue collar? They very actively promote themselves as a high tech and life-sciences community, and probably the most diverse community in terms of ethnicities in the GTA.

I agree of Toronto suburbs that Mississauga makes the most sense, though my (slightly biased) opinion has always been if you want an "Ontario" team - put it just off the 401 near Cambridge. Sure the municipality itself is small - but corporate wise - there's some decent names in the Waterloo region. And you've got easy driving access (plus might finally motivate the province to properly upgrade Hwy 6 which is long overdue).

Nothing. Which is why I keep saying Mississauga, NOT Markham

 

[thinkwild]

I thought Vegas was running out water. Seems like trial balloon \ bad rumour day. Maybe its the league way of shaking all our attentions back to hockey after the long summer.

 

[Caeldan]

Nothing. Which is why I keep saying Mississauga, NOT Markham

Reading comprehension is hard.
I kept seeing the Toronto#2 reference straight into the blue collar reference as equating it all to Markham.

Anyway, I think we're on the same page basically.

Markham = bad Toronto#2 location.
Anywhere in a triangle formed by Mississauga, Waterloo Region, Hamilton = good Toronto#2(/Golden Horseshoe) location.

Unfortunately the latter option really isn't an option due to lack of building, investors, etc.

 

[DrunkUncleDenis]

Reading comprehension is hard.
I kept seeing the Toronto#2 reference straight into the blue collar reference as equating it all to Markham.

Anyway, I think we're on the same page basically.

Markham = bad Toronto#2 location.
Anywhere in a triangle formed by Mississauga, Waterloo Region, Hamilton = good Toronto#2(/Golden Horseshoe) location.

Unfortunately the latter option really isn't an option due to lack of building, investors, etc.

If this all shakes down in the next few years, I think the only options for TO#2 will be the ACC (which I'm sure Leafs fans will **** bricks about) or Copps, which is also less than ideal. What's the status of that building, anyway? Is it still a bit of a mess?

Average stadium construction time has to be what, 2-3 years? I think the Quebec City arena will be done next year.

They need to bring some construction workers from Dubai over. They know how to build massive and ridiculous buildings quickly.

 

[Caeldan]

If this all shakes down in the next few years, I think the only options for TO#2 will be the ACC (which I'm sure Leafs fans will **** bricks about) or Copps, which is also less than ideal. What's the status of that building, anyway? Is it still a bit of a mess?

Average stadium construction time has to be what, 2-3 years? I think the Quebec City arena will be done next year.

They need to bring some construction workers from Dubai over. They know how to build massive and ridiculous buildings quickly.

I *think* Copps (now the FirstOntario Centre) could be retrofitted to be NHL quality at the 15-17k mark relatively quickly. That was Balsillie's plan if I recall correctly.

 

[BonkTastic]

They need to bring some construction workers from Dubai over. They know how to build massive and ridiculous buildings quickly.

Yeah, by stealing the worker's passports, giving them slave wages, and making the worksites so unsafe that construction deaths are commonplace.

Qatar too, but somehow even worse than Dubai.

 

[Nac Mac Feegle]

If this all shakes down in the next few years, I think the only options for TO#2 will be the ACC (which I'm sure Leafs fans will **** bricks about) or Copps, which is also less than ideal. What's the status of that building, anyway? Is it still a bit of a mess?

Average stadium construction time has to be what, 2-3 years? I think the Quebec City arena will be done next year.

They need to bring some construction workers from Dubai over. They know how to build massive and ridiculous buildings quickly.

meh...I'm on a fair number of architecture and design pages on my Facebook feed...while the Dubai buildings look very impressive, they wouldn't last one Canadian winter (or one earthquake). Hell, that 'palm island' thing they built looks like a disaster waiting to happen.

 

[Engineer]

I thought Vegas was running out water.

That's what happens when you live in a desert and insist on having pools, man-made lakes and green grass.

The most unsustainable city on earth. (although Dubai has to be a close second at this point.)

 

[sens83]

That's what happens when you live in a desert and insist on having pools, man-made lakes and green grass.

The most unsustainable city on earth. (although Dubai has to be a close second at this point.)

Dubai is a coastal town. Granted it's salt water, but it's still water.

Vegas has about 20 years left from Lake Mead, that is provided they can figure out how to pump the water. So it's really shorter than that. Right now there are two main pipes that lead from Lake Mead, the water level is almost even with the highest of the two pipes. They are working on building a third pipe that is even lower but the drilling takes time and is slow.

The real issue is that there is a 14 year drought in the west. Sooner than later, the Hoover Dam will stop generating electricity and that is when Vegas will be at a turning point.

 

[operasen]

Have we named the new teams yet?

Seattle Stealth
Toronto White-Walkers
Quebec Nordiques
Las Vegas Desert