Expansion to 36, which city is number 36?

[dj4aces]

so a new GTA team would need to "pay off" the Leafs ?


#36 = Mississauga !

Another Southwestern Ontario / GTA NHL team ? [Mississauga?]

Canada deserves another team in SouthWestern Ontario. Far enough away from Buffalo so they won't complain. Toronto can handle it. I'm thinking Mississauga. There has been enough growth in the USA. Time for Canada to get another team. I shouldn't have to wait for Bettman to die to see...

forums.hfboards.com

Mississauga is closer to Toronto than Hamilton is, and they'd still have to pay off the Leafs (unless any new ownership that may or may not be coming in find they're allergic to money, for some reason).

I think GTA could support another team, absolutely. But indemnification to enter that market will be an incredible monetary hurdle to cross that I think only the insane would entertain.

 

[the big nobody]

I would add the following teams: Houston, Birmingham (AL), Indianapolis, and Cincinnati.

Sigh...

 

[razor ray]

Not sure if this has been mentioned but Omaha is an underrated hockey town. USHL team and NCAA D1 team. Factor in a 17,100 arena ready to go and Fortune 500 companies such as:

Berkshire Hathaway
Union Pacific
Peter Kiewit
Mutual of Omaha

 

[BKIslandersFan]

I would add the following teams: Houston, Birmingham (AL), Indianapolis, and Cincinnati.

Sigh...

Lol @ Birmingham.

Not sure if this has been mentioned but Omaha is an underrated hockey town. USHL team and NCAA D1 team. Factor in a 17,100 arena ready to go and Fortune 500 companies such as:

Berkshire Hathaway
Union Pacific
Peter Kiewit
Mutual of Omaha

Aren't all of them Warren Buffett companies? Unless Buffett wants to be in on NHL, I don't see it.

 

[LadyStanley]

https://x.com/i/web/status/1799567124064612409

 

[the big nobody]

Lol @ Birmingham.

Bringing back the WHA Bulls would be the coolest disaster in NHL history.

 

[No Fun Shogun]

Half a dozen markets?

So, the name-dropped and oft-mentioned ones were Atlanta, Houston, Kansas City, Cincinnati, and Omaha (oy), and I suppose Arizona makes the half dozenth.

But makes sense. They probably want to slow their roll until they know for sure if Meruelo gets his **** in gear in the next five years.

 

[Tawnos]

Half a dozen markets?

So, the name-dropped and oft-mentioned ones were Atlanta, Houston, Kansas City, Cincinnati, and Omaha (oy), and I suppose Arizona makes the half dozenth.

But makes sense. They probably want to slow their roll until they know for sure if Meruelo gets his **** in gear in the next five years.

I’m sure they’re still getting expressions of interest from QC and possibly Hamilton/GTA2. Whether the league takes them seriously is another matter.

 

[dj4aces]

Half a dozen markets?

So, the name-dropped and oft-mentioned ones were Atlanta, Houston, Kansas City, Cincinnati, and Omaha (oy), and I suppose Arizona makes the half dozenth.

But makes sense. They probably want to slow their roll until they know for sure if Meruelo gets his **** in gear in the next five years.

I don't think anyone is taking Omaha seriously at this point. They, KC, and Cincy were name-dropped at the all-star game, but before the Coyotes "moved" to Utah, it was always them, Atlanta, Houston, and QC.

I suppose we'll see what happens in the meantime. Popcorn, anyone?

 

[BKIslandersFan]

But makes sense. They probably want to slow their roll until they know for sure if Meruelo gets his **** in gear in the next five years.

It won't take 5 years to figure that out.

 

[FoxYou727]

Me personally I would love a 40 team leauge. Probably won't ever happen or it'll be in 50 years from now

North

Montreal
Toronto
Ottawa
Calgary
Edmonton
Vancouver
Winnipeg
Quebec City
Hamilton
Halifax


South

Florida
Tampa
Carolina
Dallas
Nashville
St Louis
Washington
Atlanta
Kansas City
Houston


East

Islanders
Rangers
New Jersey
Philadelphia
Pittsburgh
Boston
Buffalo
Columbus
Hartford
Cincinnati/Cleveland/Indianapolis

West

LA
Anaheim
San Jose
Vegas
Seattle
Salt Lake City
Colorado
Arizona
Portland
Minnesota

 

[tarheelhockey]

I would add the following teams: Houston, Birmingham (AL), Indianapolis, and Cincinnati.

Sigh...

No San Diego and Baltimore?

 

[dj4aces]

No San Diego and Baltimore?

I'm more amused that the Red Wings apparently no longer exist in that scenario. I mean, I've heard of people forgetting the upper peninsula, but forgetting the entire state of Michigan is a new one to me...

 

[the big nobody]

I'm more amused that the Red Wings apparently no longer exist in that scenario. I mean, I've heard of people forgetting the upper peninsula, but forgetting the entire state of Michigan is a new one to me...

I thought this was a thread about expansion, not contraction. Who said the Red Wings would no longer exist...?

 

[No Fun Shogun]

It won't take 5 years to figure that out.

Agreed, but they gotta at least pretend that he’s competent. He has an auto-in until 2029 if he gets his affairs in order and pays back the NHL.

 

[dj4aces]

I thought this was a thread about expansion, not contraction. Who said the Red Wings would no longer exist...?

It was 330am and I just saw the post I responded to was a response to a different post. My mistake.

Look at the "40 teams" post above it, and note the missing team. Or not. It's really up to you.

 

[KevFu]

Huh? So the first owners of the Predators and Wild didn't make their money back?

Look as much as I want a second team in Southern Ontario I know its not going to happen. Not because there aren't people willing to pay the price, its because it doesn't fit with the leagues strategy.

The Preds and Wilds didn't pay rights fees. They aren't within a 50-mile radius of anywhere else.

It's not going to happen, and maybe it doesn't fit the league agenda, but agenda's change when people offer the league billions. The price tag is the massive factor in why it's not happening without a Rogers/Bell divorce settlement.

It's real simple: The first owner has to pay the rights fee, the second owner doesn't.

If you want to use a second Toronto franchise as a printing press of money to get rich owning the team, you're not breaking even until about Year 46.

The first 10 NHL owners (alphabetically by team name before I got bored) were 49.8 years old when they bought their teams. This GTA2 owner would be dead before breaking even.

Most profit of owning a team comes on the SALE, not the actual ownership of the team.

Now the SECOND guy, he doesn't have the rights fees. His buy-in is half the price, so his break-even point is half as long: Year 23. He hits the breakeven point at age 73 and sells the team.

The New Jersey Nets to Brooklyn would be an interesting case to look into. It's a relatively recent move, and they just as well could have focused on moving to KC or Pittsburgh.

The Nets were already in the market via a merger with the ABA. They didn't have to pay the Knicks to move to Brooklyn, they've spent 50 years being less than 20 miles from MSG (first on Long Island, then in New Jersey).

 

[Night Shift]

Not even the more popular sports (that kids play more than hockey)have this many pro teams, Bettman is really out doing himself.

If he goes with a 40 team league they will literally have to pluck from the beer leagues. It's unfortunate and a shame this sport turned into a watered down product because Oprah Bettman decided EVERY ONE SHOULD GET A TEAM.

 

[tucker3434]

Not even the more popular sports (that kids play more than hockey)have this many pro teams, Bettman is really out doing himself.

If he goes with a 40 team league they will literally have to pluck from the beer leagues. It's unfortunate and a shame this sport turned into a watered down product because Oprah Bettman decided EVERY ONE SHOULD GET A TEAM.

It’s been said before, but the other major leagues aren’t missing teams in Houston, Atlanta, and Phoenix, while having teams in Winnipeg, Ottawa and Edmonton. You’d better believe that if the NFL had 3 more Green Bay’s instead of Houston, Atlanta, and Phoenix, they’d also be expanding into those markets.

 

[Night Shift]

It’s been said before, but the other major leagues aren’t missing teams in Houston, Atlanta, and Phoenix, while having teams in Winnipeg, Ottawa and Edmonton. You’d better believe that if the NFL had 3 more Green Bay’s instead of Houston, Atlanta, and Phoenix, they’d also be expanding into those markets.

Then stop creating expansion teams in those Markets just to move them. It doesn't matter because the league is starting to become watered down. Nothing like a watered down product to drive interest away.

But besides the point all 3 of these cities do not gaf about hockey anyway. Here's an idea make 6 expansion teams, 2 for each of these 3 cities in case one tries to move again.

 

[dj4aces]

Then stop creating expansion teams in those Markets just to move them. It doesn't matter because the league is starting to become watered down. Nothing like a watered down product to drive interest away.

But besides the point all 3 of these cities do not gaf about hockey anyway. Here's an idea make 6 expansion teams, 2 for each of these 3 cities in case one tries to move again.

1. Do you understand why the league is looking to return to Atlanta, why they're all-in on Phoenix, and why they want Houston?

2. How do you know that "all 3 of these cities do not [care?] about hockey"?

And, for extra credit:
3. Do you understand why teams in Atlanta and Phoenix moved?

 

[tucker3434]

Then stop creating expansion teams in those Markets just to move them. It doesn't matter because the league is starting to become watered down. Nothing like a watered down product to drive interest away.

But besides the point all 3 of these cities do not gaf about hockey anyway. Here's an idea make 6 expansion teams, 2 for each of these 3 cities in case one tries to move again.

The league has been “watered down” with every single expansion since 1967, yet the product on ice keeps getting better. It’s almost like the talent pool and training are improving to compensate. Shocking result there.

There’s little, demographically, separating those proposed expansion markets from successful southern markets, aside from the proposed expansion markets being bigger than most of those already established. Give the fans an occasional playoff appearance, and they’ll show up.

Passing judgement on a market because they couldn’t withstand a decade of losing is ignorant. Or maybe you’re just too young to remember how many teams nearly failed in the 90’s and 00’s.

 

[Night Shift]

The league has been “watered down” with every single expansion since 1967, yet the product on ice keeps getting better. It’s almost like the talent pool and training are improving to compensate. Shocking result there.

There’s little, demographically, separating those proposed expansion markets from successful southern markets, aside from the proposed expansion markets being bigger than most of those already established. Give the fans an occasional playoff appearance, and they’ll show up.

Passing judgement on a market because they couldn’t withstand a decade of losing is ignorant. Or maybe you’re just too young to remember how many teams nearly failed in the 90’s and 00’s.

I may change my stance and my mind on the whole thing if they were to increase the number of playoff teams per conference. I think the current playoff format needs to be fixed and if we are adding more teams then more playoff teams need to be added.

1. Do you understand why the league is looking to return to Atlanta, why they're all-in on Phoenix, and why they want Houston?

2. How do you know that "all 3 of these cities do not [care?] about hockey"?

And, for extra credit:
3. Do you understand why teams in Atlanta and Phoenix moved?

More than what you understand about what a watered down product means. Maybe you'll get a call from Oklahoma City because there wasn't enough AHL players to fill the 4th line.

 

[dj4aces]

More than what you understand about what a watered down product means. Maybe you'll get a call from Oklahoma City because there wasn't enough AHL players to fill the 4th line.

So ...you don't know. Got it.

You're right about the playoff format, by the way. I anticipate the playoff process changing to more of a prelimianry play-in round, similar to the NBA, perhaps even as soon as the league moves to 34.

 

[aqib]

The league has been “watered down” with every single expansion since 1967, yet the product on ice keeps getting better. It’s almost like the talent pool and training are improving to compensate. Shocking result there.

There’s little, demographically, separating those proposed expansion markets from successful southern markets, aside from the proposed expansion markets being bigger than most of those already established. Give the fans an occasional playoff appearance, and they’ll show up.

Passing judgement on a market because they couldn’t withstand a decade of losing is ignorant. Or maybe you’re just too young to remember how many teams nearly failed in the 90’s and 00’s.

I think its hard to argue that adding 5 teams in 3 years from 92-94 resulted in a few years of bad hockey. Just like adding 6 teams in 7 years in the NBA resulted in some crappy basketball.

Both sports were able to rebound as they were able to access talent from other places (the Russian influx in the NHL and explosion of basketball in Europe.

Vegas and Seattle didn't disrupt the NHL because they where one-team at a time staggered a couple of years apart. So yeah the NHL can sustain more teams. I think 36 is a reasonable number eventually I just don't know how many years we should stagger that out over. I wouldn't do it in 2 years like in the early 90s. Maybe you do it over 6 years. Like for arguments sake lets say the Coyotes win their auction you do it like this:

2026- QC
2028 - AZ
2030 - ATL
2032 - Houston (thats right about when the Rockets lease expires on their arena)